Tangara upgrade contract awarded to UGL

[mandonov]

Basically, the upgrades are focussed on the operations not tthose that travel in them.
You're welcome.

I think the addition of PID's, security cameras, and actually audible announcements shows that the upgrade is both operations AND passenger focussed. I for one look forward to the day when I can actually hear what station is next instead of trying to decipher the garbled sound of a train guard.

I wouldn't mind the sets be kept as 4 car individual sets as it would allow a bit of train km maintenance saving by having a lot of weekend services be 4 cars only. In particular the T4 Line.

The T4 can't cope with 8 cars on weekends as is!

[swtt]

Division of T sets nowadays is actively avoided given the Train OS issues when dividing and amalgamating...

[andy_centralcoast]

There's two 4 car T sets that run on the Northern Line in the weekday morning peak about 15 minutes apart. They run empty from Hornsby to Epping, then limited stops passenger service from Epping to Sydney Terminal where they join together on the platform 8.

[Punchbowl Tiger Cub]

Issues dividing and amalgamating T Sets - nothing compared to M Sets.T sets split and coupled together everyday with very few problems.Issue won't be around for much longer with the permanent 8 car T Sets

[Swift]

Are M sets noticeably advanced to operate over a 1980s tech Tangara, notwithstanding the problems of coupling and decoupling?

[Punchbowl Tiger Cub]

M Sets are in a world of their own - they were the first of their generation in technology and have a reputation for being plagued with continual annoying issues - nothing big but just a pain in the arse to drive and drive smoothly due to the configuration of powering up and braking

[Swift]

When I used to look at the drivers view through the access door window of the Tangaras in 1989( before they started block I g the view with the blinds), I was very impressed with the ride smoothness and hi tech look of the driver controls.
I recently read that guards, at least, haven't been allowed to use the privacy screen on the access door for years, but most seem to do it anyway.

[cityrailwaratah a13]

is there any news on t106 yet has it left broadmeadow yet

[Glen]

I wouldn't mind the sets be kept as 4 car individual sets as it would allow a bit of train km maintenance saving by having a lot of weekend services be 4 cars only. In particular the T4 Line.

Just what the line needs, when they have standing passengers on 8 car trains.

Fair enough, but I'm sure there are lines, and times of day, when two-man 8 car trains could be more efficiently operated as one-man 4 car trains, and then we could double the frequency and really make public transport more attractive, and when they fill up, put 8 car trains back on.

I'm always amazed at how a modern railway has such difficulty dividing trains!

(Imagine the challenges of uncoupling locomotives when everything was steam-hauled!?)

Our 8 DD sets are amongst the highest seating capacity suburban trains in the world and do seem overkill at quieter times.

[boronia]

I doubt we will see one-person 4 car trains anytime soon.

Back in the 1950s. they were dividing 8 car sets into 4 cars, and even 2 cars, during the day, miraculously having them all merge back into the original sets for the afternoon peak.

[cityrailwaratah a13]

is there any news on t106 re entering service yet

[Glen]

I doubt we will see one-person 4 car trains anytime soon.

Back in the 1950s. they were dividing 8 car sets into 4 cars, and even 2 cars, during the day, miraculously having them all merge back into the original sets for the afternoon peak.

Even up until the 1980's actually, although I do think it was done to excess then and I can understand the reluctance to do early AM runs with 2 car trains and amalgamate for the AM peak, or divide after the AM peak and then amalgamate for the PM peak.

However I do wonder why we can't still divide after the PM peak and amalgamate at the end of the night, or divide for the weekend, when loading permits of course.

Surely there would be a considerable saving in electrical power and car mileage / maintenance costs.

[matthewg]

However I do wonder why we can't still divide after the PM peak and amalgamate at the end of the night, or divide for the weekend, when loading permits of course.

Surely there would be a considerable saving in electrical power and car mileage / maintenance costs.

Delays caused when a pair refuse to couple up. While it's basically a maintence issue (maintain the couplers so they work reliably), on time running is all important. That's why we have timetables now that are slower than back in the steam era. If the train is tabled to run at half it's maximum speed, it can always be on time.

[Glen]

However I do wonder why we can't still divide after the PM peak and amalgamate at the end of the night, or divide for the weekend, when loading permits of course.

Surely there would be a considerable saving in electrical power and car mileage / maintenance costs.

Delays caused when a pair refuse to couple up. While it's basically a maintence issue (maintain the couplers so they work reliably), on time running is all important.

Yes I know, but that is why I said:

... divide after the PM peak and amalgamate at the end of the night.

[matthewg]

... divide after the PM peak and amalgamate at the end of the night.

So that from 7pm to midnight (the whole of 5 hours out of a 20 hour running day) can run 4 car sets ?

The Illawarra still diagrams OSCAR sets to divide after the morning peak and rejoin for the afternoon peak, so they are making use of the auto-couplers on one class of train.

[boronia]

So do the BMT rosters (all 4 car Vs between peaks) and possibly some CCN. There is a full time shunter at Central to assist this process.

[Punchbowl Tiger Cub]

The M sets are the sets that consistently have coupling/uncoupling problems.That is why most splitting/coupling of these sets occurs at Eveleigh in case of problems.Tangaras don't have many problems and are still timetabled to couple out in traffic - ie:tabled at Sydney Terminal each weekday.

When the Tangara are semi-permanently coupled after the refub problem,it won't be happening except for maintenance purposes.

[Swift]

Decommissioned drivers ends?

[boronia]

A problem could occur at out depots at night in making sure there are enough 4 car sets to couple up enough 8 car sets for the next morning peak.

There is the old option of closing off the rear four cars, so that pax are confined to the front half of the train.

[Glen]

Everybody makes excuses for all of the things that shouldn't go wrong on a regular basis!

I'm glad I don't pay the power bills.

[Frosty]

The M sets are the sets that consistently have coupling/uncoupling problems.That is why most splitting/coupling of these sets occurs at Eveleigh in case of problems.Tangaras don't have many problems and are still timetabled to couple out in traffic - ie:tabled at Sydney Terminal each weekday.

When the Tangara are semi-permanently coupled after the refub problem,it won't be happening except for maintenance purposes.

I heard this was a problem for while with M sets during the Leppington Shuttle when 4 car M sets were operating.
I've also got a question does the M set used on weekends on the T6 line is it uncoupled at Eveleigh or somewhere along the T2 Line.

Pax confined to the 4 cars of an 8 car train every weekend on the T4 Line if there is track work and ESR trains are running a shuttle service. 4 out of the 6 sets assigned to the shuttles would have carriages confined due to drunken idiots along the line kicking the doors out

[Glen]

I remember the vandalism problem ballooned out of control in the 1980's when they started running 8 car sets at night full of fresh air (and drunks).

[Swift]

Of they lock off half the train, do the four open cars position at the platform as though it's four cars or eight?
Can the traction motors on the disused half run on some sort of economy mode to provide adequate power so as not to drag down the performance of the train as a whole? Curious if decoupling is worth the power and wear saved?
I suppose it keeps the odometer in check overall.

[Punchbowl Tiger Cub]

No,you can not cut out motors and pretend the back half is not there.Braking will not work ie:A Set as it is blended electric braking.

Those in power make the decisions about operating as 8 car sets - we just do our job and drive whatever is put in front of us.As seen with the A Sets and what will be the layout of all future purchases,all will be fixed permanent sets.This is for reliability and for safety reasons.(An outcome of the Waterfall accident)

[Swift]

I think it is a bad time to reduce the practise of decoupling when technology has failed miserably in keeping power consumption levels down.