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Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby gascoyne » Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:16 pm

Today there was an incident in which police closed Eddy Avenue to all traffic for several hours. Dulwich Hill light rail vehicles were kept away, interrupting the services. Buses were diverted. CSELR would have been cut for the duration. This shows the vulnerability of light rail to unpredictable interruptions.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby mandonov » Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:28 pm

It's the same with any other kind of fixed transport infrastructure, but that doesn't negate it's benefits. If some crazed naked woman was hanging from the bridges over Eddy Avenue then it's not the light rail's fault it had to be diverted, it was the maniacs fault.

Should we close down all airports and go back to passenger liners because fog grounds planes every now and then? No, we deal with it to the best of our ability and try to restore service as quickly as possible.

Should we rip up the entire rail network because every week someone decides to off themselves in front of a train? No.

Should we tear down the Harbour Bridge because some moron created a 3 hour traffic jam when they crashed after texting and driving? No.

A one in a million chance of disruption is no reason to avoid building fixed infrastructure.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby boronia » Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:20 pm

But a good operation would have infrastructure that lets the effects of such incidents be minimalised.

In the case of the IWLR, there is nowhere beyond the depot that Central bound trams can be short-shunted. A crossover in Hay St or near Paddys would enable trams to get much closer to the CBD.

Likewise some crossovers along George St would help the CSELR during emergencies or special events.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Passenger 57 » Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:42 pm

You could do dual single track operation shuttles between the partition point and the nearest cross-overs up and downstream. Was that not done?
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby simonl » Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:04 pm

mandonov wrote:It's the same with any other kind of fixed transport infrastructure, but that doesn't negate it's benefits. If some crazed naked woman was hanging from the bridges over Eddy Avenue then it's not the light rail's fault it had to be diverted, it was the maniacs fault.

Should we close down all airports and go back to passenger liners because fog grounds planes every now and then? No, we deal with it to the best of our ability and try to restore service as quickly as possible.

Should we rip up the entire rail network because every week someone decides to off themselves in front of a train? No.

Should we tear down the Harbour Bridge because some moron created a 3 hour traffic jam when they crashed after texting and driving? No.

A one in a million chance of disruption is no reason to avoid building fixed infrastructure.

This argument is only partially valid. A rail route without a dedicated corridor is more vulnerable to unexpected disruptions than a bus route or a fully separated railway. You have the same issue with level crossings - that's why there isn't likely to be too many more, if any. And the LXs which are there are being prioritised for closure/separation.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby rogf24 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:59 pm

I didn't take any pictures but George St looked very good today.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Frosty » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:17 pm

There are some pics on Sydney Light Rail facebook page.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby rogf24 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:53 pm

I saw a few trucks and cars on the pedestrian mall today, it was all vehicles were travelling very slowly so that was good but it was very annoying because they all kept on beeping their horns at pedestrians. One truck was especially bad and beeped his horn every 10 metres, that was so annoying, sure he drove slowly but it was annoying. They should put no horn signs on the pedestrian mall.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby jpp42 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:03 pm

I walked the length of George St yesterday and was surprised that it looks like they've barely started in areas near Martin Place. Yet other areas the track is completed. Some of this I'm sure is due to necessary construction staging but they really have a lot of work to do in the Martin Place area.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby GazzaOak » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:56 pm

jpp42 wrote:I walked the length of George St yesterday and was surprised that it looks like they've barely started in areas near Martin Place. Yet other areas the track is completed. Some of this I'm sure is due to necessary construction staging but they really have a lot of work to do in the Martin Place area.


I think that fair, since that part of george st is a major shopping strip, so they had to get it done before chirssy shopping time
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby moa999 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:17 pm

Far less shops in the Martin Place section. If you had to pick two blocks, they got the correct ones imho
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby jpp42 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:42 pm

Work is well underway to remove the existing light rail tracks at Hay/George St today, in preparation for installing the new crossing during the month long shutdown of the IWLR.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby moa999 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:47 pm

Are the OHW going in at the same time, or is that going to be another shutdown in the future?
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby boronia » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:57 pm

Last time I looked (a couple of weeks ago) there was no OHW infrastructure in George St, so I guess there will be another shutdown to put this up.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby gld59 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:13 pm

You'd hope that would be pretty quick, though, compared to the tracks. The poles and most of the wire support structures shouldn't interfere with the IWLR.

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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby simonl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:15 pm

Wasn't it going to use a non-OHW power method on George St. Or did that change somewhere along the line.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby tonyp » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:48 pm

simonl wrote:Wasn't it going to use a non-OHW power method on George St. Or did that change somewhere along the line.

North of Bathurst St only.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby boronia » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:58 pm

gld59 wrote:You'd hope that would be pretty quick, though, compared to the tracks. The poles and most of the wire support structures shouldn't interfere with the IWLR.

gld

Probably just the actual crossing point would be difficult. But could be a prolonged exercise if the IW wires need to be replaced for the entire length between the tensioning towers. This mob will no doubt make it a prolonged exercise, even if there is an easier way. Still one more Xmas/NY break before opening date!!
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:38 pm

boronia wrote: This mob will no doubt make it a prolonged exercise, even if there is an easier way. Still one more Xmas/NY break before opening date!!


That's when we decide to change all of the track standards!
Last edited by Tonymercury on Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby hornetfig » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:54 pm

boronia wrote:Last time I looked (a couple of weeks ago) there was no OHW infrastructure in George St, so I guess there will be another shutdown to put this up.


If the foundations for OHW masts are poured now, the remainder can be done as night works.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby jpp42 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:56 pm

hornetfig wrote:If the foundations for OHW masts are poured now, the remainder can be done as night works.


Will they use existing "smart poles" or other infrastructure like buildings, to support the OHW where possible? This would reduce visual clutter and has worked fine for 100 years in legacy tram systems, but it wouldn't surprise me if somehow CSELR has deemed this unacceptable...
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:51 pm

Refer back to previous comments about TfNSW and you should be able to make an informed guess.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:00 pm

But it would be a guess only.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby boronia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:28 pm

jpp42 wrote:
hornetfig wrote:If the foundations for OHW masts are poured now, the remainder can be done as night works.


Will they use existing "smart poles" or other infrastructure like buildings, to support the OHW where possible? This would reduce visual clutter and has worked fine for 100 years in legacy tram systems, but it wouldn't surprise me if somehow CSELR has deemed this unacceptable...

I noticed there are some building supported wires along Hay St, behind the Capitol. But I wonder what the legal implications would be to attaching to buildings? And george St is much wider than Hay St. Wouldn't it be neater to have centre poles with cantilever brackets?
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby hornetfig » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:01 pm

jpp42 wrote:Will they use existing "smart poles" or other infrastructure like buildings, to support the OHW where possible?


Every OHW mast installed in Moore Park and Randwick to date is bolted to a gigantic concrete foundation nearly as deep as the pole is high. This occurs whether or not the pole has any significant tension on. (If it has tension the foundation ground slab is huge: the ones at Anzac Pde junction have a slab of about 2.5m x 2.5m)

So while yes they will use smart poles and move traffic signals and street lighting onto them, almost certainly they won't be re-using the existing ones.
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