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Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby gascoyne » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:23 am

From 2 Jan 2015 until early on 12 Jan the following bus services will be diverted/altered/etc to permit work on services at several locations in George St:
311 Millers Point to Railway Square via Elizabeth Bay, 311 Railway Square to Millers Point via Elizabeth Bay, 412 Campsie Station to City, 412 City to Campsie Station, 413 Campsie Station to City, 413 City to Campsie Station, 422 City to Kogarah, 422 Kogarah to City, 423 City to Kingsgrove, 423 Kingsgrove to City, 426 City to Dulwich Hill, 426 Dulwich Hill to City, 428 Canterbury to City, 428 City to Canterbury, 431 Glebe Point to Millers Point, 431 Millers Point to Glebe Point, 433 Balmain to Millers Point, 433 Millers Point to Balmain, 436 Chiswick to City, 436 City to Chiswick, 438 Abbotsford to City, 438 City to Abbotsford, 439 City to Mortlake, 439 Mortlake to City, 440 City to Rozelle, 440 Rozelle to City, 443 City to Maritime Museum, 443 Maritime Museum to City, 461 Burwood to City, 461 City to Burwood, 470 City to Lilyfield, 470 Lilyfield to City, 480 City to Strathfield Station, 480 Strathfield Station to City, 483 City to Strathfield Station, 483 Strathfield Station to City, 500 City to Ryde, 500 Ryde to City, 501 West Ryde/Ryde to City, 501 City to Ryde/West Ryde, 502 Bayview Park to City, 502 City to Bayview Park, 504 City to Chiswick, 504 Chiswick to City, 505 City to Woolwich, 505 Woolwich to City, 507 City to Macquarie Uni, 507 Macquarie Uni to City, 508 City to Drummoyne Avenue, 508 Drummoyne Avenue to City, 510 Ryde Depot to City, 510 City to Ryde Depot, 515 Eastwood to City, 515 City to Eastwood, 518 City to Macquarie Uni, 518 Macquarie Uni to City, 520 City to Parramatta, 520 Parramatta to City, 555 Free Sydney CBD Shuttle, 998 The Rocks to QVB, E86 PrePay Only - McCarrs Creek/Church Pt to Railway Square, E86 PrePay Only - Railway Square to McCarrs Creek/Church Pt, E87 PrePay Only - Newport to Railway Square (Express), E87 PrePay Only - Railway Square to Newport (Express), E88 PrePay Only - North Avalon to Railway Square (Express), E88 PrePay Only - Railway Square to North Avalon (Express), E89 PrePay Only - Avalon to Railway Square (Express), E89 PrePay Only - Railway Square to Avalon (Express), L23 PrePay Only - City to Kingsgrove (Limited Stops), L23 PrePay Only - Kingsgrove to City (Limited Stops), L28 PrePay Only - Canterbury to City (Limited Stops), L28 PrePay Only - City to Canterbury (Limited Stops), L37 City to Haberfield (Limited Stops), L37 Haberfield to City (Limited Stops), L38 PrePay Only - Abbotsford to City (Limited Stops), L38 PrePay Only - City to Abbotsford (Limited Stops), L39 PrePay Only - City to Mortlake (Limited Stops), L39 PrePay Only - Mortlake to City (Limited Stops), L88 Railway Square to Avalon (Limited Stops), L90 Palm Beach to Railway Square (Limited Stops), L90 Railway Square to Palm Beach (Limited Stops), M10 Prepay Only - Leichhardt to Maroubra Junction via City, M10 Prepay Only - Maroubra Junction to Leichhardt via City, M30 Prepay Only - Mosman to Sydenham, M30 Prepay Only - Sydenham to Mosman, M52 City to Parramatta (Limited Stops), M52 Parramatta to City (Limited Stops), X04 PrePay Only - City to Chiswick (Express).

That may be acceptable for a week or so in the summer holidays. But apparently George St between Bathurst and Hunter will be closed from 26 April and won't re-open to buses. What's Elizabeth St going to be like at peak hour for the next four years?
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:04 pm

Living in the Shire.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby CityRail » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:13 pm

I think the government should attempt to close off the City to private cars and trucks for first, then put more City Circle trains around for customers to change.

I suppose more details will come and I suspect some buses will get terminated at Railway Square to avoid the jam.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby boronia » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:18 pm

It is hard to believe that it will take 4 years to lay this section of track. Why can't it be given back to buses until trams are ready to run?
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby simonl » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:42 pm

Be interesting to see what effect this has on running busses in Sydney.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby 08 XDi » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:08 pm

I am really struggling with the timeframe here. GCLR took longer because different stretches were done at different times to take advantage of early federal funding and adjacent construction works like the new hospital at the northern end. George St really should not be that hard to do in a shorter period all in one hit before moving on to the bits south of Central.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby matthewg » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:46 pm

This work isn't construction - it's underground survey work. All they are doing is digging holes to confirm what's down there. Archaeology of a sorts.

Actual construction work is way off yet.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby boronia » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:43 pm

The notice does relate to the current exploratory work, but the question posed was
That may be acceptable for a week or so in the summer holidays. But apparently George St between Bathurst and Hunter will be closed from 26 April and won't re-open to buses. What's Elizabeth St going to be like at peak hour for the next four years?

One would assume that similar adjustments will become permanent once work starts, now only 5 months away.
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Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby David10 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:53 pm

Based on the congestion today (ie a Sunday), expect it to chaos tomorrow. And to think we have god knows how many years of this, mark my words it will be a lot longer than 4 years, if that is what the timeframe is now. I predict double the time and double the cost.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Bedford-29 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:59 am

Well how long did it take to build the tram line on the Gold Coast and there is going be two new tram lines built in Sydney in one go.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Stu » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:31 am

The traffic on Elizabeth St was chaotic last Friday, a bumper to bumper car park and sometimes not moving for at least 10 mins. It's easy to expect that situation when so many bus routes are crammed into Elizabeth St. The government doesn't care about diverting buses and allowing such phenomenal late running to occur, as long as the bus operates from end-to-end, a service is being provided which is all that matters and the 'customer comes first' ideology is employed.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby simonl » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:22 am

Elizabeth Street doesn't seem as bad as I thought it would be today.

Mind you, I was expecting it to be pretty bad.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby CityRail » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:24 am

Welcome to first week of work in the New Year and if you are travelling by bus, you might be impressed by the level of delays we've got this morning:

Citybound buses delayed on Sydney Harbour Bridge

Current as at 09:58 Mon 5 January

Buses heading into the city on the Sydney Harbour Bridge are delayed up to 90 minutes due to heavy traffic. Passengers can use their bus tickets on City Circle and T1 North Shore Line trains between Chatswood and the city as an alternative.


Sydney CBD - Carrington Street and York Street Bus Delays

Current as at 09:23 Mon 5 January

Passengers catching a bus in the Sydney CBD are advised to allow an additional 30 minutes travel time due to heavy traffic.


Sydney CBD - Alfred Street Bus Delays

Current as at 09:22 Mon 5 January

Passengers catching a bus in the Sydney CBD are advised to allow an additional 30 minutes travel time due to heavy traffic.


Sydney CBD - George Street Bus Delays

Current as at 09:21 Mon 5 January

Passengers catching a bus in the Sydney CBD are advised to allow an additional 30 minutes travel time due to heavy traffic.


Sydney CBD - Elizabeth Street Bus Delays

Current as at 09:20 Mon 5 January

Passengers catching a bus in the Sydney CBD are advised to allow an additional 30 minutes travel time due to heavy traffic.


Sydney CBD - Castlereagh Street Bus Delays

Current as at 09:19 Mon 5 January

Passengers catching a bus in the Sydney CBD are advised to allow an additional 30 minutes travel time due to heavy traffic.


Source: Transport Info website

I am deeply concerned that as the level of delays we see this morning we could see when they close down George Street over a long period of time, the city could be thrown into gridlock every day for the next few years. I hope the minister would re-consider her position on Light Rail and take alternative actions where possible.

Moreover, rather to have buses running via Elizabeth Street, why they don't use Hay and Harbour Street for diversion?
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Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby David10 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:30 am

Tailbacks of over 1 hour for buses entering the city from the Harbour Bridge. Not sure of today's arrangements, but yesterday the two lanes leading to Grosvenor St were closed with all traffic diverted to the York St bus lane.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby CityRail » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:47 am

George Street partly closed for light rail works, 90-minute bus delays on Sydney Harbour Bridge

Buses travelling across the Sydney Harbour Bridge to the city experienced delays of up to an hour and a half during the Monday morning peak due to heavy traffic after roadworks closed parts of the CBD.

Bus passengers catching services in the CBD are being delayed by up to 30 minutes, the Transport Management Centre says

Passengers can use their tickets on Sydney Trains, on the T1 North Shore Line between Chatswood and the city and on the City Circle as an alternative, the centre says.

George Street has been partially closed for roadworks related to the light rail project, setting the scene for traffic upheaval in the city this week.

The George Street closures are southbound between Alfred and King streets and northbound at Hay and Campbell streets.

The roadworks, which began last Friday, are scheduled to last until next Monday, Transport for NSW says.

About 80 bus routes are affected with diversions and temporary stops in place.

Buses that normally use George Street are diverting via King and Elizabeth streets or via Castlereagh Street and buses are using temporary bus stops, the Transport Management Centre says.

All Victoria Road services that normally run to Wynyard will terminate at QVB, George Street, Transport for NSW says.

The light rail line will extend from Circular Quay along George Street to Central Station, through Surry Hills to Moore Park, then to Sydney's eastern suburbs.

The $2.1 billion contract for the light rail project was signed last month and the line is due to open in early 2019.

The contract includes provisions for major works to finish in 2018, meaning major disruptions in the city and suburbs will take just over three years.

Transport Minister Gladys Berejiklian said last month: "This project will provide a significant improvement in public transport in Sydney, as well as creating more than 10,000 jobs for our economy."

blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en">

Whoa, that's a massive bus line out there, on the bus lane. pic.twitter.com/V74sIqIklM

— Jean-Jacques Halans (@halans) January 4, 2015

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-traffi ... 2htyz.html


I hope Transport for NSW can think of some immediate solutions to ease the congestion caused by their Light Rail fiesta. At a minimum perhaps to divert buses from the Northern Beaches and the Hills to Cahill Expressway and sets down/picks up on Macquarie Street.

According to the RTA cam, at this moment, we have a train of buses on the Sydney Harbour Bridge.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby jpp42 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:07 am

simonl wrote:Elizabeth Street doesn't seem as bad as I thought it would be today.

Mind you, I was expecting it to be pretty bad.


Yeah I was pleasantly surprised as well, but I guess there is still less private traffic than normal. And maybe the delays on the Harbour Bridge meant fewer buses entering the City (not sure exactly how this could affect Elizabeth St but everything does impact everything else somehow).

The driver on the route 443 bus that I caught was complaining that the rosters had not been adjusted to account for increased delays, meaning it was making it much more difficult for them to turn around the buses and meet the timetable.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby simonl » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:30 am

David10 wrote:Tailbacks of over 1 hour for buses entering the city from the Harbour Bridge. Not sure of today's arrangements, but yesterday the two lanes leading to Grosvenor St were closed with all traffic diverted to the York St bus lane.

But the via cahill services weren't affected. only via Grosvenor st services and there aren't too many of them.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby In Transit » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:38 am

Judging by this article http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-traffi ... 2htyz.html and the experience of one my colleagues (nearly two hours travel time from entering the freeway at North Sydney to reach Bondi Junction) this morning was hardly a success for many bus services, notwithstanding the comments above....
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby jpp42 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:47 am

I just realised that all the Victoria Rd services are terminating near the QVB. That explains why there was a lot less hassle on Elizabeth St today compared to the weekend when they were making their way down to CQ.

It seems like they need to have more north-of-the bridge services terminate at North Sydney. Too bad we don't have multi-modal fares for transport... *sigh*.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby Tallewang » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:52 am

The Warringah area buses which go railway square should terminate at wynyard with free train travel to central. That would be much more productive for everybody than persisting with sending them to central via elizabeth st.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby boronia » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:10 am

According to the notice, Railway services ARE terminating at Wynyard. No mention of free train travel though.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby simonl » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:32 am

jpp42 wrote:I just realised that all the Victoria Rd services are terminating near the QVB.

Umm, I don't think that's correct. Victoria Rd services were doing George/King/Elizabeth just like Parramatta Rd services.

jpp42 wrote:It seems like they need to have more north-of-the bridge services terminate at North Sydney. Too bad we don't have multi-modal fares for transport... *sigh*.

Quite.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby simonl » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:32 am

boronia wrote:According to the notice, Railway services ARE terminating at Wynyard. No mention of free train travel though.

Only on 2 Jan 2015.
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby simonl » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:41 am

In Transit wrote:Judging by this article http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-traffi ... 2htyz.html and the experience of one my colleagues (nearly two hours travel time from entering the freeway at North Sydney to reach Bondi Junction) this morning was hardly a success for many bus services, notwithstanding the comments above....

Interesting. According to the notice, the only additional services on York St were the E86-E89, 412, 413, 431 and 433. I get around 20bph combined on those routes.

EDIT: Here's a comment from the smh website which seems to explain it:
What a joke this morning was! 80 mins on the bus over the bridge this morning all caused by the fact that cars trying to head down Grosvenor St were being diverted down York and hence interfering with the buses. Perhaps some signs on the bridge approaches letting people know that the York St exit was closed to cars? Might have helped. People don't actually realise that this light rail project will cause more problems than it solves. George Street is a major artery and there are no plans to really answer what happens to the traffic it will displace. 67 metre long 'light' rail is more like a train and they will be mixing with a long section of narrow George St as a pedestrian mall. They can't stop like buses can and with all the punters walking around with their head phones on, it'll be a disaster. There alternate solutions put forward by Infrastructure NSW were practical but lacked the 'sizzle' of the light rail.
CommenterJam es Location Sydney Date and time January 05, 2015, 11:28AM
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Re: Putting CSELR in George Street Sydney

Postby CityRail » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:50 am

An update to the article on SMH says Duncan Gay will hold a press conference at 1.45pm to explain the debacle this morning. Hopefully it will arrive with some solutions.

Meanwhile, Gladys is on leave. Good on her not to get any blame from her customers (and voters in the Willougby who according to the update, spent 110 minutes to go from Cammeray Shops to Wynyard).
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