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[Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Myrtone » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:39 pm

Will any level crossings on the intercity lines, be it with roads or footpaths, be gone by the time these trains are placed into service?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:52 pm

Probably not. There's no need to waste millions of dollars in grade separations when most of the level crossings are lightly used.

Actual busy ones, such as Adamstown, can be solved by the Fassifern-Hexham freight line which has recently had funding put towards it.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Myrtone » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:05 pm

Could some lightly used level crossings simply be closed? That counts as a level crossing removal.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:21 pm

Depends where they are. If there's a chance that entire communities would become divided, then that isn't feasible.

Level crossings are far from a real priority though. They aren't really a limiting factor for the rail network.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Myrtone » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:06 pm

Where a footpath and a railway cross on the same level, what there is still counts as a level crossing. And grade separating these is pretty trivial compared to grade separating a road and a railway, very little, if any, earthworks are needed. These could even cross a road parallel to and on the same level as the railway!
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Route243 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:51 pm

Tonymercury wrote:
Route243 wrote:On Saturday (03 Sep 2016) I spoke to a lady who works for Transport for NSW with regard to the reduced cap on the new trains.

A main reason is that by law trains need to be more accessible. This is in a similar manner to why all nrw buses need to be low floored.

Although the V Sets have a lot of seating capacity, they are not really suitable for mobility impaired especially wheelchair bound.

She also said that most of the capacity issues occur as the trains get closer to the city (where the suburbans run). On this most of those people would be better off getting a suburban train and get a seat.

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To a point yes.

However when my daughter was younger, I had to deal with her pram (and it wasn't those full on baby buggies) and it was hard manoeuvring it in a V Set. I imagine that a wheelchair is almost impossible on a V set.



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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Route243 » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:59 pm

On level crossings, the one that should go is the Rawson Road near Woy Woy station.

They built a pedestrian under pass and have been banging on about doing the same for cars for years.

Other crossings on the Central Coast Newcastle Line are okay to leave as is.



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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby gascoyne » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:47 pm

Does anyone know whether the new intercity trains will be able to go beyond Springwood (or wherever the Oscars can reach)? Trish Doyle, the MLA for Blue Mountains, has a Facebook post suggesting they mightn't and no-one wants to admit it. See https://www.facebook.com/trishdoylebluemtns/videos/1190457864349997/
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:07 pm

They are supposed to be going all the way, they wouldn't be wanting 10 or 12 car sets just to run to Springwood. If they are too wide, what are they going to use?

It is obvious from the comments that her supporting constituents know even less about trains than she does.

But then again, TfNSW will be handling this, so any sort of stuff up is possible.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby rogf24 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:30 pm

Can't the 3 metre wide trains make it up to Lawson now?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Transtopic » Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:41 pm

rogf24 wrote:Can't the 3 metre wide trains make it up to Lawson now?

I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if they could as there is a new turnback there.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:13 pm

Transtopic wrote:
rogf24 wrote:Can't the 3 metre wide trains make it up to Lawson now?

I don't know for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if they could as there is a new turnback there.

I've seen reports somewhere in the past that Ts could actually get as far Katoomba, but are operationally restricted to Springwood.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:43 am

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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby simonl » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:11 am

Woohoo! About time we got rid of them.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Punchbowl Tiger Cub » Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:32 am

Ever driven a train or been a guard on a train - bet you haven't.Come and jump in my shoes and see if you could do it and do it with safety on the network we have and the equipment we operate.What would I have I done last Friday night when I had vandals damaging a car,pissing on seats and threatening other passengers on a Revesby service.Guard did an excellent job and the Police did the rest.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:17 am

I appreciate the job that you do, but what makes Sydney such a special case when a large amount of the world's metropolitan railways are driver only?
Last edited by mandonov on Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby user13548 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:19 am

Punchbowl Tiger Cub wrote:Ever driven a train or been a guard on a train - bet you haven't.Come and jump in my shoes and see if you could do it and do it with safety on the network we have and the equipment we operate.What would I have I done last Friday night when I had vandals damaging a car,pissing on seats and threatening other passengers on a Revesby service.Guard did an excellent job and the Police did the rest.


You just get those functions done a different way
I'm in Spain ATM and not a guard to be seen and the local youth can be just as misbehaved.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby simonl » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:59 am

mandonov wrote:I appreciate the job that you do, but what makes Sydney such a special case when a large amount of the world's metropolitan railways are driver only?

The ones which aren't completely driverless at least.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:56 am

Confirmation of the two different train lengths being ordered in the REF for Eveleigh Maintenance Centre enabling works:
The New Intercity Fleet comprises 512 cars which would progressively come into service. The first trains are expected to be delivered in 2018, with the remainder of the fleet being delivered through to 2022. Commissioning will commence in late 2018, with the first train entering into service in 2019.

Commissioning, stabling and maintenance of the New Intercity Fleet would be undertaken on Maintenance Roads 5-10 associated with the Millennium Shed. To accommodate the New Intercity Fleet, track, civil, overhead wiring, signalling and signage modifications to the existing infrastructure in the Precinct are required. These modification works would also allow the required configuration of Short New Intercity Fleet (SNIF) and Long New Intercity Fleet (LNIF) trains to be stabled. LNIF trains would operate as 10-car sets which comprise of a six and four car set, with a train length of approximately 205 metres, while the SNIF would operate as 8-car sets, which comprise of two four car sets, with a train length of 164 metres. The modification works would allow stabling and maintenance for 9.5 New Intercity Fleet trains (comprising
4.5 SNIF and 5 LNIF).
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:35 am

No six car off-peak trains?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:38 am

mandonov wrote:what makes Sydney such a special case when a large amount of the world's metropolitan railways are driver only?


Nobody's ever done any of the work required to make it happen?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:43 pm

Tonymercury wrote:No six car off-peak trains?

Who knows.

Using 6 car trains on weekend BMT services would give them more capacity while still being stingy on the staffing, so I'd expect them to take advantage of that.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby simonl » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:22 pm

Why? Would six cars allow for no repeater?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby 3805 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:52 pm

The railways want Driver Only operation. So no guards and no repeaters. Perhaps more station staff to help out. There may however be on-board crew as PSS similar to those on Regional services.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:10 pm

simonl wrote:Why? Would six cars allow for no repeater?

Probably not unless they provide a guard's compartment in one of the intermediate cars. I can't see the Union allowing them to ride with the passengers.
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