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[Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:25 pm

Intersting note on the Ten Tunnels upgrade:

The Project generally comprises:
• minor modifications to sections of the lining of eight tunnels in the Ten Tunnels Deviation
• minor modifications to ancillary infrastructure extending from the eastern portal of Tunnel 1 (Sydney end) to the western portal of Tunnel 10 (Lithgow end).

The Project would accommodate the operation of the New Intercity Fleet trains which are wider and longer than the existing V-Set trains. The modifications would allow the Blue Mountains line to be consistent with the existing electrified rail network.

Subject to approval, construction is expected to commence in 2018 and take around two years to complete.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:32 pm

AFIK, the carriages won't be longer, and the number of carriages would be irrelevant. They run 20+ car IP consists through the tunnels.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:45 pm

Correct, but it says the trains will be longer, which is true. It's just a factual statement, not a justification.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby gld59 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:32 pm

Maybe some cut & paste going on with the report, as there would be other works which are because of longer trains.

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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:08 pm

The Heritage Council was today advertising for submissions regarding alterations to the Zigzag Tunnels to accommodate the NGIF.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:38 pm

boronia wrote:The Heritage Council was today advertising for submissions regarding alterations to the Zigzag Tunnels to accommodate the NGIF.


Considering how much they've already been altered!
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby lunchbox » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:45 pm

For the record, works to accomodate the New Intercity Fleet (NIF) include - technical investigations, localised notching in 8 of the 10 tunnels, rock bolting, possible reconstruction of the concrete wall lining, replacement of lighting shields, replacement of a cable tray in tunnel no. 3, signage, temporary construction compounds, and temporary hi-rail access pads.
The Application is on display at the Heritage Council, level 6, 10 Valentine Ave. Parramatta, 9am till 5pm.
Submissions close 7 March 2018.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Stonesourscotty » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:51 pm

When these tunnel works are complete will the Oscars also run on the Blue Mountains Line?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:03 pm

They will be able to, but they will be redundant when the NIF trains start running.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby swtt » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:09 pm

boronia wrote:They will be able to, but they will be redundant when the NIF trains start running.


Correct. Don't forget the NIF are meant to send the Oscars back into suburban working.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:52 pm

swtt wrote:
Correct. Don't forget the NIF are meant to send the Oscars back into suburban working.

And that the number of Oscars rather conveniently match the number of C's and K's in operation.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby bussie » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:14 am

mandonov wrote:
swtt wrote:
Correct. Don't forget the NIF are meant to send the Oscars back into suburban working.

And that the number of Oscars rather conveniently match the number of C's and K's in operation.

I won't be surprised if they find another excuse to keep all these plus the S sets alive for even longer. How many times and over how many years have we heard the S sets going off for good, they are still running, and its a good thing.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby mandonov » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:22 am

New render from an article in the SMH on the relaxing of clearance standards to fit the NIF into the Ten Tunnels.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/saf ... 4z23h.html

Image
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby bussie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:06 am

mandonov wrote:New render from an article in the SMH on the relaxing of clearance standards to fit the NIF into the Ten Tunnels.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/saf ... 4z23h.html

Image

So basically a Waratah but for long(er) distance travel.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Aurora » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:19 am

Side destination boards like buses!
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby tonyp » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:09 am

Aurora wrote:Side destination boards like buses!

Good idea actually.

But no "go-fast" stripes? Since the timetables are likely to be the same, they have to have something that creates an impression of a faster journey. After all, Constance keeps telling us they wil do 160 km/h. :?
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:22 am

Probably a bit pointless, as passengers rarely seem to read them, and on suburban and OS services there is a 30% chance of them being wrong.

Passengers tend to rely more on platform signs and announcements, although it is amazing to watch people boarding trains when the PIDs show "Train Terminates - do not join this train".
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Frosty » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:31 am

The only suburban trains that actually have the right desto most of time is the Waratah’s. The Tangara’s don’t have them and silver sets never work while M sets are always just lost. Though side destos would be useful for stations without platform PIDS.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:01 pm

Waratahs are WRONG a lot of the time because they only show part of the journey. Likewise Ms and Hs.

I used to catch Wyong bound OSCARs from Penrith. The destination displayed was Central, and when you got there, the announcements said "change for the North Shore line"

Now doubt the same logic will be applied on the NIFs for similar cross-line runs.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby 3805 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:53 pm

No pantographs? Must be diesel powered...

I think that I would rather drive an old V-Set if these will be anything like the Oscars.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby matthewg » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:20 am

boronia wrote:Waratahs are WRONG a lot of the time because they only show part of the journey. Likewise Ms and Hs.

I used to catch Wyong bound OSCARs from Penrith. The destination displayed was Central, and when you got there, the announcements said "change for the North Shore line"



This is computer logic for you. They linked the PID display to the run number so the driver didn't have to enter to codes or mess it up or something.
The run numbers change at Central. Since the destination of the 'run' is central, that's what the computer displays.

The person/persons who thought that one up have no idea how the trains are really operated.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby Tonymercury » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:35 am

matthewg wrote:
The person/persons who thought that one up have no idea how the trains are really operated.


They don't actually travel but sleep at their terminals.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby boronia » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:38 pm

I wonder if some "incompetent government" back in the 1950s decided to electrify the line to Lithgow without realising that the tunnels might need alteration?

Or if some other "incompetent government" ordered double deck trains to run on the line without realising that the tunnels might need alteration?

Amazing how history repeats itself.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby tonyp » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:53 am

boronia wrote:I wonder if some "incompetent government" back in the 1950s decided to electrify the line to Lithgow without realising that the tunnels might need alteration?

Or if some other "incompetent government" ordered double deck trains to run on the line without realising that the tunnels might need alteration?

Amazing how history repeats itself.

But wasn't it a deliberate decision that interurban trains would be country loading gauge and that clearances wouldn't need to be altered? This seemed to work fine until recently when it seems to have been decided to put wider suburban trains along interurban lines.
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Re: [Australian] Mike Baird buying new trains off the rack

Postby matthewg » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:04 pm

tonyp wrote:But wasn't it a deliberate decision that interurban trains would be country loading gauge and that clearances wouldn't need to be altered? This seemed to work fine until recently when it seems to have been decided to put wider suburban trains along interurban lines.


The decision to build all the EMU's to suburban loading gauge was probably dictated by accessibility guidelines round the gap between the train and the platform. The large gap between the platform and the narrow-bodied stock probably scared someone.
Of course, they could have put movable 'gap filling' steps on the trains as is common overseas.

The tunnels were already modified to take the narrow double-deck stock as the sides went higher than the standard 'country' loading gauge. Now they have to be modified again to take wide-bodied stock.
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