• Advertisement

Use of Back Door on Buses

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Daniel » Wed May 30, 2018 8:41 am

tonyp wrote:Why can't I find this bus in the STA fleet lists? Is it a Custom body and how many doors does it have?

The bus in question is number 5060 and is listed in the disposal section. Volgren body with front and centre doors and 30 seats. A demonstrator from late 2013 to early 2014 prior to STA’s purchase of the midi VSTs. This vehicle then sat around in Melbourne for a considerable amount of time before being purchased by AAT Kings for their Alice Springs hotel shuttle service.
User avatar
Daniel
Administrator
 
Posts: 6825
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:03 pm
Location: Sutherland Shire
Has thanked: 350 times
Been thanked: 930 times
Favourite Vehicle: Mercedes-Benz O405 / CC '510'

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Wed May 30, 2018 9:17 am

Daniel wrote:
tonyp wrote:Why can't I find this bus in the STA fleet lists? Is it a Custom body and how many doors does it have?

The bus in question is number 5060 and is listed in the disposal section. Volgren body with front and centre doors and 30 seats. A demonstrator from late 2013 to early 2014 prior to STA’s purchase of the midi VSTs. This vehicle then sat around in Melbourne for a considerable amount of time before being purchased by AAT Kings for their Alice Springs hotel shuttle service.

Thank you. I couldn't locate it in the dropdown search boxes in either current or disposal lists. I presume it must be a bit shorter than the VSTMs to have as many as 9 less seats, that's quite a difference?
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Bovways » Wed May 30, 2018 2:26 pm

tonyp wrote:I presume it must be a bit shorter than the VSTMs to have as many as 9 less seats, that's quite a difference?


The Volgren interior layout definitely costs a few seats (around 5) by comparison to a VST in a full size bus. A Busways VST (or CB80 for that matter) has 49 seats; the most that Busways has been specc'd into a Volgren is 44 seats.
I'm not entirely sure of all the differences but for example:
1. VST has a very upright rear seat, and 3 passenger wheelchair area flip seats each side,
2. CB80 has 3 passenger wheelchair area flip seats each side, rear facing seats over the front wheel arch
3. Volgren has 4 passenger wheelchair area flip seats each side, and no rear facing seats over the front wheel arch.

Putting aside the merits of these designs, the Volgrens seem to have a lower designed-in seating capacity.

C :)
Bovways
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:48 am
Location: Macquarie Park
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 45 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Wed May 30, 2018 3:31 pm

Without studying designs in detail, the better seat pitch in Volgren may possibly cost a row of seats (4). So better seating comfort, standee space and circulation in Volgren at the cost of a few less passengers getting seats. That's speculation, one would have to study plans in detail, given also that there may be variations in customer orders. All premised on two double-leaf doors.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Frosty » Wed May 30, 2018 9:37 pm

STA's standard Bustech VST's have 46 seats, CB80s have 47 though and I'm not to sure about Volgren's it's either 42 or 44 seats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmHf_Iwln2Q
It's a Yutong electric bus being demonstrated in London its better than the BYD buses in Sydney used by Carbridge though it isn't fully low floor.
Frosty
 
Posts: 1734
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:16 pm
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu May 31, 2018 5:42 am

Frosty wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmHf_Iwln2Q
It's a Yutong electric bus being demonstrated in London its better than the BYD buses in Sydney used by Carbridge though it isn't fully low floor.

There's no excuse not to have a stepless aisle all the way to the back in an electric bus. They don't have a diesel engine to deal with. This is just poor design and a reason we won't get a lot of joy out of Chinese electric citybuses for a while. However, I know that they can do a better job where there's pressure on them to do it, that is when they have to enter the continental European market. Then they'll provide a fully low floor bus because that's what the customers there require. The problem with this UK one is that the British bus industry has the same low expectations as the Australian one and doesn't have any motivation to demand better.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby moa999 » Thu May 31, 2018 8:14 am

I can only assume it's range driven.

The comments to that video say range of 185mi / 300km
With cells on top land under the back seats.

Presumably for tipover risk you need some cells in the floor to balance the rooftop weight.

Though maybe a say 200km range bus with full low floor and partially raised rear seats might work. 200km as a peak available bus say operating 6-10 and 4-8 with 6hrs charging in the middle of the day and overnight.
moa999
 
Posts: 1985
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:12 pm
Has thanked: 285 times
Been thanked: 284 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu May 31, 2018 8:30 am

moa999 wrote:I can only assume it's range driven.


That's the Chinese approach to the subject, yes. Propaganda-driven would be another way of describing it!

European projects tend to be more modest in range and preserve the functional integrity of the bus. Ultimately, improvements in battery technology will improve these design issues. The "top-heavy" issue is also addressed by using for batteries what would normally be the rear compartment for a vertical diesel engine. Those battery buses with the high floor at rear are lazily using the space where there was an underfloor diesel engine. It's the low floor bus with a vertical rear engine that is needed to provide the platform for a well-designed battery bus (like the one in my avatar). The Europeans also require that low-floor stepless door behind the rear axle which influences the situation. Further development of in-motion charging will also change the parameters for range.

A funny one doing the rounds at the moment is a battery bus trial in Wales where the outer terminus is in a remote area with no mains power available for the flash charger - so there is a diesel generator on site to power the charger. There must be a "lost plot" joke in there somewhere!
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby rogf24 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:00 pm

Another day, another back door story. This time, I saw a mother try and get on through the back door with her child. The child got on but the driver closed the door on the mother and they got seperated for a moment.

This thing some drivers seem to have with the back door thing is really stupid. This was a 423 bus.
User avatar
rogf24
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 137 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:42 pm

rogf24 wrote:Another day, another back door story. This time, I saw a mother try and get on through the back door with her child. The child got on but the driver closed the door on the mother and they got seperated for a moment.

This thing some drivers seem to have with the back door thing is really stupid. This was a 423 bus.

Well these drivers don't seem to realise that by doing these things with such split second accuracy, they disprove the claim that it's unsafe to use the other doors because they can't see them properly.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:47 pm

These drivers should be in trouble! Don't they get reprimanded already if they accidentally shut the doors on somebody?
'Zip on the doodah' It starts right away! Victa's New Zip Start System for the 70s!!
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 9821
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 562 times
Been thanked: 438 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby rogf24 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:54 pm

The drivers that don't mind passengers using the back or centre door and especially those who tell passengers to use it don't get enough backing from the public imo. They are the ones doing their bit for safety in trying to avoid cases like these, not the ones who close the door at any opportunity when they see a passenger.
User avatar
rogf24
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 137 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Sat Jun 02, 2018 10:11 am

I was amused to come across this photo from the Illawarra Mercury showing the new apologetic "no entry" sign that appeared last year soon after I made representations to TfNSW and Premier Illawarra to allow entry through the centre door. Prior to this there was only the small standard pictogram sticker (the red circle with a diagonal bar through it).

Image

Quite proud of being the probable cause of this sign. It just goes to show that you can achieve some action by making representations to TfNSW - they will move to reinforce the opposite of what you wanted.

The crowd is a group of save the Shuttle demonstrators.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby jpp42 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:41 pm

Caught an STA bus this morning (Custom body) where the front door was malfunctioning. Driver embarked and disembarked all passengers via the middle doors. I certainly appreciated that to the alternative? Which I presume would be to cancel the
run entirely.
User avatar
jpp42
 
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:27 pm
Has thanked: 157 times
Been thanked: 249 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:37 am

I never thought I'd see anything from NZ that was in advance of anything in Australia, but here is an electric bus in Wellington (the only one admittedly) boarding schoolkids through both doors, a practice that is banned in NSW:

NZa.jpg
NZa.jpg (190 KiB) Viewed 2994 times
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:09 pm

tonyp wrote:I never thought I'd see anything from NZ that was in advance of anything in Australia, ..

They are ahead of us in many areas. Why the persistent myth they are our backward cousin? New Zealand do many things better than staid old Australia who stubbornly cling to archaic practises.
'Zip on the doodah' It starts right away! Victa's New Zip Start System for the 70s!!
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 9821
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 562 times
Been thanked: 438 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Glen » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:41 pm

tonyp wrote:I never thought I'd see anything from NZ that was in advance of anything in Australia

You obviously didn't used to try to use a credit card for small purchases in Oz (up until very recently).

In NZ I've spent a week or more there and (virtually) never needed cash.
Glen
 
Posts: 2735
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 10:54 pm
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 184 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby rogf24 » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:22 am

Noticed that Los Angeles is putting on all door boarding permanently now. Well on some routes at least.

http://thesource.metro.net/2018/06/14/a ... n-june-24/
User avatar
rogf24
 
Posts: 869
Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 82 times
Been thanked: 137 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:49 am

rogf24 wrote:Noticed that Los Angeles is putting on all door boarding permanently now. Well on some routes at least.

http://thesource.metro.net/2018/06/14/a ... n-june-24/


When you get NZ and American transit doing something ahead of Australia it's really scraping the bottom of the barrel!

I like this diagram, which lines up with how we do things in Australia, compared to Europe where the wheelchair entry is at the second door from the front:

Image

I see the Americans are really taking to artics too. MAGA!
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:37 pm

It's absolutely ridiculous that car mecca L.A is ahead of us in PT. They have more light rail and it wasn't scandalous in it's cost either. Australia you monkey!
'Zip on the doodah' It starts right away! Victa's New Zip Start System for the 70s!!
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 9821
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 562 times
Been thanked: 438 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby BroadGauge » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:27 pm

Swift wrote:It's absolutely ridiculous that car mecca L.A is ahead of us in PT.

Have you ever actually been there? It's a god awful place to try getting around without a car. Even getting from Downtown LA to Disneyland on public transport is quite an achievement.
User avatar
BroadGauge
 
Posts: 3470
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:20 pm
Location: North of Mexico
Has thanked: 179 times
Been thanked: 199 times
Favourite Vehicle: Car

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:32 pm

Yes, I was only referring to one particular achievement, not that public transport as a whole had made a quantum leap ahead of Australia!

I drove a borrowed Chevvy Corvette to Disneyland in public - I guess that qualifies as public transport in LA! It had the unsettling habit of stalling in the middle of intersections, which was rather unwelcome as I was driving LHD on the right side of the road for the first time in my life and already had my brain fully occupied staying on the correct side of the road at corners. Riding the bus in San Diego was preceded by having to buy a cup of coffee in advance on order to get the exact change for the driver. Fascinating country. The people are simply lovely.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:10 pm

At least they have a freeway system with more than three lanes each way maximum unlike Joketown here. They don't charge criminal toll levels for it either.
As for Americans being lovely people, they certainly are less "judgey" compared to Australia, especially Sydney siders.
'Zip on the doodah' It starts right away! Victa's New Zip Start System for the 70s!!
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 9821
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 562 times
Been thanked: 438 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby deepthought2006 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:16 pm

tonyp wrote:
rogf24 wrote:Another day, another back door story. This time, I saw a mother try and get on through the back door with her child. The child got on but the driver closed the door on the mother and they got seperated for a moment.

This thing some drivers seem to have with the back door thing is really stupid. This was a 423 bus.

Well these drivers don't seem to realise that by doing these things with such split second accuracy, they disprove the claim that it's unsafe to use the other doors because they can't see them properly.

You're assuming that it's a deliberate action and that the driver could see all of what was occurring. Unlikely, in view of the punishment likely to be given out if the matter was to be reported. I think that it's more likely that the driver could not see the mother waiting outside (and possibly didn't see the child getting on, either).
All opinions expressed are my own.
User avatar
deepthought2006
 
Posts: 732
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:57 pm
Location: At home, Sydney's north
Has thanked: 84 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:38 pm

If the bus had CCTV, the driver should have seen with crystal clarity what was going on both sides of the door. I wasn't referring to this particular incident but occasions when I've seen the driver watching the back door and closing it with exact timing on somebody about to enter.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 7570
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 802 times
Been thanked: 931 times

PreviousNext


  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Sydney / NSW

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], burrumbus and 8 guests

cron