• Advertisement

Use of Back Door on Buses

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby GazzaOak » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:51 pm

tonyp wrote:
Don't they load UNSW buses (both ways) through all doors or still through one?


I think they don't do that with the UNSW buses.... but that won't be for long ether.... since the tram will replace the buses anyways
White ribbon day is most sexist thing ever
User avatar
GazzaOak
 
Posts: 815
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Frosty » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:56 pm

Usually only front door boarding for UNSW I’ve seen. Though today on the 370 did see driver tell people to use the rear door only to deal with overcrowding. I’ve seen quite commonly unofficial rear door boarding on some routes like the 370 guess driver didn’t want to leave people behind otherwise a very long wait for the 370.
Frosty
 
Posts: 1407
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:16 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby booma » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:55 pm

There is supposed to be all door loading at Carrington st Wynyard from nov 26th.

Stands A B C & D.
User avatar
booma
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: VBVD via Wmall
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Favourite Vehicle: 2574&3234&3946

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:54 pm

^ That will be beneficial. I managed to do the centre door shuffle on two different buses today. It felt strange grabbing a seat straight away and waiting another minute for the hordes that had been in front of me to board and not get seats. :twisted: :lol:
OMNIBUS -open to the undeserving and unwanted (unfortunately).
Australian Bus enthusiasts. Obsessed with projecting an outward image of being normal and typical, whilst indulging in an atypical hobby.
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 8980
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 476 times
Been thanked: 361 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:08 pm

I caught two Gong Shuttles today. The first one an elderly man got on at the centre door at our stop - driver didn't mind and waited for him to find a seat. Younger driver, they're the best ones, as well as Indians. After middle age, Australian drivers seem to become more cantankerous and bureaucratic.

Second bus, I was timing dwell. A few people got off and about 25 filed in through the front door. The dwell took nearly 50 seconds. The buses were consistently running a few minutes late, even on a Sunday. Very little traffic to delay them, the delay was at the stops.

A couple of months earlier I was timing dwells on Perth CATs. One bus I was on took on board 25 people AND a wheelchair. The dwell was 30 seconds INCLUDING deployment and retraction of the wheelchair ramp. Most people boarded through the centre door while the wheelchair and some others were handled simultaneously at the front.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6601
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:48 am

Two young people got on the 396 through the centre doors and the driver in his twenties or early thirties, got out of his seat and ordered them to exit out the same door and enter through the front, or he wouldn't be driving off. They eventually complied after a bit of tooing and froing with the female passenger over her pleas that she had tapped on. She was non too pleased with the driver!!
OMNIBUS -open to the undeserving and unwanted (unfortunately).
Australian Bus enthusiasts. Obsessed with projecting an outward image of being normal and typical, whilst indulging in an atypical hobby.
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 8980
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 476 times
Been thanked: 361 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:01 am

Swift wrote:the driver in his twenties or early thirties,

I guess some young people are old and grumpy before their time too. Classic jobsworth.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6601
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby booma » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:53 am

They started the rear door loading a week early down at Wynyard. I had no problem with it but the passengers did :D .

hopefully the passengers get into the right rhythm by the time the B line starts.
User avatar
booma
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: VBVD via Wmall
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Favourite Vehicle: 2574&3234&3946

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:22 am

booma wrote: I had no problem with it but the passengers did :D .

In what way did the passengers have a problem with it?
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6601
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:25 am

tonyp wrote:In what way did the passengers have a problem with it?


They probably now believe they can board that way anywhere and will require a severe visit from the TfNSW Inquisitor General and some time on the rack.
Tonymercury
 
Posts: 2360
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:14 pm
Location: Botany NSW
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 291 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:25 am

tonyp wrote:In what way did the passengers have a problem with it?


They probably now believe they can board that way anywhere and will require a severe visit from the TfNSW Inquisitor General and some time on the rack.
Tonymercury
 
Posts: 2360
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:14 pm
Location: Botany NSW
Has thanked: 195 times
Been thanked: 291 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby booma » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:39 am

tonyp wrote:
booma wrote: I had no problem with it but the passengers did :D .

In what way did the passengers have a problem with it?


They were new to the concept so they were still lining up when they were boarding via the rear door. They would board the bus faster if they adopt a free for all, winner take all attitude.
They also abandoned the front door as a means of entering the bus, preferring the novelty of a single leaf rear door. They should be okay with single deckers by next week.
Hopefully the single internal stair case of the double deckers is not too much of a problem with loading the bus in under 4 minutes. :shock: and only a minor fraction of those passengers going to Mosman :shock: :shock:
lest first set down restrictions be applied. :lol:
User avatar
booma
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: VBVD via Wmall
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Favourite Vehicle: 2574&3234&3946

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby booma » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:48 am

Tonymercury wrote:
tonyp wrote:In what way did the passengers have a problem with it?


They probably now believe they can board that way anywhere and will require a severe visit from the TfNSW Inquisitor General and some time on the rack.


Or a broken nose caused by a closing rear door. I really hope those door marshalls stay for good, it is so sketchy with rear door loading especially in a crazed environment like PM Wynyard.

I Don't know what to call these blokes??? "Bouncers","Doormen" "Gate Keepers" ????????????
User avatar
booma
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:17 pm
Location: VBVD via Wmall
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Favourite Vehicle: 2574&3234&3946

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:10 am

booma wrote:Hopefully the single internal stair case of the double deckers is not too much of a problem with loading the bus in under 4 minutes.

The trams from Wynyard would have been over the other side of the bridge before a decker finished loading.

booma wrote:I really hope those door marshalls stay for good, it is so sketchy with rear door loading especially in a crazed environment like PM Wynyard.

How quaint it is reading these Sydney "concerns" when you've experienced all-door-loading, not only overseas, but elsewhere in Australia. Public transport in NSW really is a retarded affair.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6601
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby matthewg » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:35 pm

booma wrote:Or a broken nose caused by a closing rear door.


The drivers on City Road next to the Uni seem to have gotten quite adept at shutting centre door the moment the last passenger has exited to stop anyone getting ideas about boarding via that door.

They appear to sit there watching the mirror and pretty well ignoring the passengers using the front door - too busy watching for when they can close that centre one.
matthewg
 
Posts: 1331
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:11 pm
Has thanked: 85 times
Been thanked: 247 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:58 pm

You get private bus drivers doing that too using the cameras giving an excellent view of the rear doors, a technology that was supposed to clear the path for them to use the other doors safely - instead they use it vindictively. These jobsworths have no place in the industry and should get out and make way for employment of drivers with the right aptitude and attitudes.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6601
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby moa999 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:22 pm

Think you are being tough on the drivers tonyp.

They are simply following their employers instructions. They should be the ones you target.
moa999
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:12 pm
Has thanked: 244 times
Been thanked: 247 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:40 pm

moa999 wrote:Think you are being tough on the drivers tonyp.

They are simply following their employers instructions. They should be the ones you target.

Yes believe me I do go for the employer first, at least the agency that's behind it all. I think the point about the drivers is that it doesn't really matter if somebody has found their way on through the other doors, as long as there's an Opal reader there that they're obligated to swipe, the rest is up to the roving inspectors. It's not the driver's ultimate responsibility to police fares, the risk on that is with the passenger and its a matter between the passenger and inspectors.

The driver simply needs to close all doors when its safe after all passenger exchange is complete. This is when the bus is about to move off. The drivers have no business playing childish and unsafe swat the blowfly games in the middle of the stop process. In doing so they're creating a safety hazard themselves and will end up in some legal situation if a passenger is injured by having doors deliberately shut on them. It's just irresponsible to do this. The time to shut the doors is when the bus is about to leave.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6601
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Linto63 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:02 pm

In days gone by, drivers and operators were able to be more liberal rules with interpreting rules and regulations, but not so in today's more litigious, health & safety conscious environment where big brother is always watching. If there is a company procedure, then drivers are obliged to follow it. The rule may be archaic, but just like any other employee, drivers don't get to pick and choose what procedures they will and won't follow.

So it's all very well to call those that follow the rules 'jobsworths', reality is that those who break the rules or turn a blind eye are exposing themselves to trouble. Say somebody enters through the back door, trips and breaks a leg and seeks compensation from the operator. The insurer may ask to see the CCTV, notice that a policy was broken and be able to wash their hands of the claim. Which would then make the operator liable. Result would be operator out of pocket, and driver probably out of a job.
Linto63
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Frosty » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:33 pm

Though with CIty Rd Sydney Uni stop I think it must Tempe drivers thing I notice it on the 348 operated by T they will often refuse to move the bus if anyone is anywhere near the rear door and will force a customer off if they board through the rear door.

Many drivers see backdoor loading as last resort thing when the bus is full and still need to cram another 20 passengers on. I see now quite often nearly daily on the 370 I guess drivers rather people squash in then leave them behind and the next bus be 30mins+ away some drivers also quiet lenient in allowing people standing right up to front door to increase capacity.
Frosty
 
Posts: 1407
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:16 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:47 pm

Linto63 wrote:In days gone by, drivers and operators were able to be more liberal rules with interpreting rules and regulations, but not so in today's more litigious, health & safety conscious environment where big brother is always watching. If there is a company procedure, then drivers are obliged to follow it. The rule may be archaic, but just like any other employee, drivers don't get to pick and choose what procedures they will and won't follow.

So it's all very well to call those that follow the rules 'jobsworths', reality is that those who break the rules or turn a blind eye are exposing themselves to trouble. Say somebody enters through the back door, trips and breaks a leg and seeks compensation from the operator. The insurer may ask to see the CCTV, notice that a policy was broken and be able to wash their hands of the claim. Which would then make the operator liable. Result would be operator out of pocket, and driver probably out of a job.

I understand that, but the biggest actual danger to somebody entering through another door in NSW at present is the prospect of the driver closing the door on them whilst they do so. The best way to minimise the risk of that is to leave the door open until the bus is ready to go and then close them all at once, or at least when there is nobody in proximity to either side of the door. If the passenger boarding against regulations has passed "no entry" signs on the way through the door, then that is the legal argue-back for the owner and the driver. The driver legally can't be liable for his or her inaction to prevent this, as there is nothing lawful that he or she can do to prevent the person entering and it's highly risky to do so in today's environment where the risk of assault is always there. Exactly what can an owner legally expect a driver to do to prevent entry by another door?

So the biggest legal self-protection for a driver is to let the situation be, because trying to close the door in the face of an entering passenger, or even worse, on them while they're going through the door, exposes the driver to the risk of criminal negligence. It's just as bad in law as closing the door on a passenger while they're exiting through it. The best ultimate solution is to fall in line with tram practice where risks are minimised.

Unfortunately the incompetence of TfNSW ultimately lies behind all of these issues.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6601
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby GazzaOak » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:07 pm

I donno why, but with the newly back door boarding at carrigton st in wynard, some people were whiningy about it
White ribbon day is most sexist thing ever
User avatar
GazzaOak
 
Posts: 815
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:53 pm
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 48 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Linto63 » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:41 pm

tonyp wrote:I understand that, but the biggest actual danger to somebody entering through another door in NSW at present is the prospect of the driver closing the door on them whilst they do so.
They could just play by the rules like everybody else.
Linto63
 
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:18 pm

Linto63 wrote:They could just play by the rules like everybody else.

But as typical humans they don't and the signs are that they increasingly won't. My advice fwiw is that closing the door on an enterng person has the same legal risk as closing it on an exiting one. They could sue you for negligence either way. Probably more prudent not to play Russian roulette with the door button and just shout at them - unless they're a heavily tattooed Hells Angel of course.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6601
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 475 times
Been thanked: 702 times

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:45 pm

Time for NSW to surrender to allowing use of back doors for entry as they did with allowing UBER because "people would do it anyway".
Then again, since when has NSW been known for consistency on just about anything? :roll:
OMNIBUS -open to the undeserving and unwanted (unfortunately).
Australian Bus enthusiasts. Obsessed with projecting an outward image of being normal and typical, whilst indulging in an atypical hobby.
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 8980
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 476 times
Been thanked: 361 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

PreviousNext


  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Sydney / NSW

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Engineering, Google [Bot], muke and 15 guests