Use of Back Door on Buses

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
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tonyp
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

NSW bus drivers are going to have to realise that, apart from people from overseas, with large numbers of people coming to Sydney from interstate jurisdictions that have or are adopting all-door loading they are going to have to stop losing their cool and courteously explain to people why they shouldn't be entering at the other doors in NSW. It's not because people are stupid but because many genuinely don't understand the rule or the logic. But by all means continue to hold out against it hey.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

tonyp wrote:NSW bus drivers are going to have to realise that, apart from people from overseas, with large numbers of people coming to Sydney from interstate jurisdictions that have or are adopting all-door loading they are going to have to stop losing their cool and courteously explain to people why they shouldn't be entering at the other doors in NSW. It's not because people are stupid but because many genuinely don't understand the rule or the logic. But by all means continue to hold out against it hey.
The rules for buses are made by Transport For NSW that is most likely stacked with RTBU members and bureaucrats that don't have a clue about anything to do with public transport and we all know the RTBU's thoughts on the multi door loading issue
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Swift »

It's heartening to see many drivers have contempt for their union and quite freely allow people to enter through the centre doors, well the intelligent ones who think for themselves anyway.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

Campbelltown busboy wrote: The rules for buses are made by Transport For NSW that is most likely stacked with RTBU members and bureaucrats that don't have a clue about anything to do with public transport and we all know the RTBU's thoughts on the multi door loading issue
The vast majority of Australian city bus drivers are covered by the TWU which doesn't seem to have a problem with all-door loading. The RTBU bus strongholds are Sydney and Brisbane. In Brisbane, curiously, RTBU doesn't seem to have a problem with all-door loading on the Citygliders. I'm sure there's an explanation for the double standard.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by rogf24 »

Meanwhile in NSW, I saw a kid a few days ago block the front door because he wanted to get on first (mother was still waiting in line) and the driver started shouting at the kid for blocking passengers from entering the bus and not boarding with his mum. Imagine if there was all-door boarding so the kid who blocked the door wouldn't be as disruptive. Oh well, still, that kid needed a lesson. He didn't even move until his mum got on (all the way at the end) while other passengers were just constantly bumping into him. All-door boarding would have still helped here.

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Swift »

Get the message Australia (it never will) your way isn't best practice.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

Swift wrote:Get the message Australia (it never will) your way isn't best practice.
https://youtu.be/mDhALjRZa8k
Most of the rest of Australia is progressively getting it. It's just NSW that's stuck in a rut.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Bus Suggestions »

To some degree, using the back door for exit only is Australian psychology. I've been on buses where even though the front door is empty (i.e. at termini), everybody leaves through the back, slowing down the process of disembarking passengers and often making the next trip the bus does late. All-door boarding could somewhat help by letting people board through the back, slowing down passengers exiting and giving them the 'spark' to exit through the front.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by rogf24 »

Information in Melbourne from PTV officially implementing all-door boarding on at least one university route. Mind you, unofficial all-door boarding and ignoring front door rule (despite stickers on the bus centre doors) is very widespread in Melbourne so this isn't a big change in the real world, apart from the fact PTV has now printed the words out. That they managed this without much fanfare (there's no info online on this or any media release or coverage) really shows how unremarkable it is and it should be that way.

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Stu »

^ If TfNSW adopt all door boarding, there will be pink and blue paint all over the footpath, detailed fact sheets and safety advice available on the website.

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

Stu wrote:^ If TfNSW adopt all door boarding, there will be pink and blue paint all over the footpath, detailed fact sheets and safety advice available on the website.
And an army of supervisors at every stop and a strike by the RTBU.
rogf24 wrote:Information in Melbourne from PTV officially implementing all-door boarding on at least one university route.
Which Monash Univ services are those?
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by 1whoknows »

The 601 express service from Huntingdale which is being converted to mainly artic bus operation this year.
Melbourne may well have all door boarding but it doesn't mean any more will tap on!
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Merc1107 »

Is the change to Pre-Pay also advertised with announcements at the bus station? I can imagine in this era of people being completely ignorant of signage it might cause a kerfuffle with some passengers who are time poor and need to recharge their smart-cards.

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by rogf24 »

I'm not sure how you can miss the orange writing on the ground. The info that it's going prepay is way more prominent than the new all door boarding info (which I guess is fair since the prepay will be the bigger change since everyone regularly used the other doors before anyway). But as someone else has pointed out, not tapping on buses is also widespread in Melbourne so chances are if they don't have money they'll just get on regardless and top up at the station (where oddly the same students who don't tap on the bus will tap on at Huntingdale station not that it matters since fares in Melbourne are full integrated).

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by neilrex »

tonyp wrote:NSW bus drivers are going to have to realise that, apart from people from overseas, with large numbers of people coming to Sydney from interstate jurisdictions that have or are adopting all-door loading they are going to have to stop losing their cool and courteously explain to people why they shouldn't be entering at the other doors in NSW. It's not because people are stupid but because many genuinely don't understand the rule or the logic. But by all means continue to hold out against it hey.
I don't know where these mystery people are coming from. They don't have all door boarding in Melbourne or Brisbane or China.

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

neilrex wrote:
I don't know where these mystery people are coming from. They don't have all door boarding in Melbourne or Brisbane or China.
As we've seen on this forum and elsewhere, all-door boarding occurs quite a bit in Melbourne, even if not authorised, and now it's starting to be authorised. So - the critical point - many Melbournians' minds have been unlocked to the notion of boarding a bus other than by the front door. In Brisbane, the Cityglider buses are all-door boarding (RTBU-member staffed too!), so again commuters' minds are exposed to the alternative possibility. Adelaide and Canberra are now practising it quite widely. Perthians' minds have long been exposed to the alternatives on different types of services. Further afield, it is widespread across Europe and is now starting to take off in USA. I don't know much about the rest of the world but it's catching on because of its obvious benefit for speeding up services and increasing the productivity of buses.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Merc1107 »

neilrex wrote:I don't know where these mystery people are coming from. They don't have all door boarding in Melbourne or Brisbane or China.
... They do have it, on parts of the network, in Adelaide and Perth (and I expect in both instances it will become more prevalent in time), and I've seen shots of 5 or 6 door artics operating in China. I doubt an operator specifies so many doors if they don't intend on using them!

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by tonyp »

Merc1107 wrote: I doubt an operator specifies so many doors if they don't intend on using them!
The leading-edge jurisdiction is surely UK. They have long practised all-door loading through all one door.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by BroadGauge »

Tony will be impressed to know that last week, I was boarding an M90 service at Strathfield one evening, operated by Transdev NSW, and the driver reacted to the large crowd waiting by opening up back doors and letting people pile on at both the front and the back as many did.

Won't say exactly when though as I don't want the driver to get in trouble! ;)

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Swift »

One commuter hasn't got the idea. This old bastard deliberately sat hard up against me when there were other seats available behind. When I said do you mind he said he would have had this seat if it wasn't for me entering that way. I said are you the bus vigilante? He wouldn't answer so I said I'll get another seat then thanks and he had to lift his heavy suitcase on his lap to let me out.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by pgt »

Been seeing a number of users 'boarding' via the centre/rear door on buses recently, and not even at an interchange for that matter.

Was thinking where had I seen all door boarding overseas - it was in Taipei where this is apparently commonplace.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by matthewg »

pgt wrote:Been seeing a number of users 'boarding' via the centre/rear door on buses recently, and not even at an interchange for that matter.

Was thinking where had I seen all door boarding overseas - it was in Taipei where this is apparently commonplace.
It's common in Europe and apparently in Asia. With the universities pretty well dependant on income from Asian students, many young people will be arriving from cities were all-door boarding is common, so naturally, just do the same thing with the buses here.

We just have a few drivers who diligently watch the mirrors and close the centre doors the moment someone tries to board that way. Some of them seem really good at it too - with split-second timing to make the prospective passenger jump back.

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Glen »

Zurich was my favourite.

All door boarding on 5 door double articulated trolley buses.

Just shows what you can do.

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Swift »

^ Try convincing Sydney Transport bosses. Like talking to a besser block wall.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Post by Campbelltown busboy »

Swift wrote:^ Try convincing Sydney Transport bosses. Like talking to a besser block wall.
The whole Transport For NSW thought process is union based and if they don't consult with the RTBU about things like all door boarding or other sensible ideas when it comes to public transport in Sydney then there will be a strike because the union wasn't told and the government only cares about what they want and the union won't take it
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