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Use of Back Door on Buses

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:28 pm

tonyp wrote: What would be of more interest is wherher the change is now permanent in Boston.

I think it is strictly in it's infancy there, but gospel is spreading slowly, judging by other similar videos clearly showing how effective it is, appearing from other American cities.
If enough of this practise spreads in the U.S, it might force our chronically cautious transport agencies to take notice. We tend to follow what the U.S does, if not Europe.
Here's how it has gone down in SF.
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/ ... ts/387739/
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Frosty » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:24 pm

I thought we follow the British in terms of Public Transport considering the amount of Brits who run PT in Aus maybe if the British start doing then we might follow I don't think any UK cities do rear door loading they're still stuck in the Stone Age of not even having a rear door.

Problem with the rear door loading situation at the moment TfNSW isn't pushing it the bus drivers/unions aren't and neither are the operators. Technology doesn't restrict it with CCTV on doors & sensors in the doors incase anything gets stuck. They could have all all door boarding with B-Line maybe if they went with a private operator instead of STA. I have feeling bus drivers are become more anti-rear door ever since Opal I notice so often people sticking their arm back into the bus to tap off after initially forgetting to tap off.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:18 am

Frosty wrote:I thought we follow the British in terms of Public Transport considering the amount of Brits who run PT in Aus maybe if the British start doing then we might follow I don't think any UK cities do rear door loading they're still stuck in the Stone Age of not even having a rear door.

Problem with the rear door loading situation at the moment TfNSW isn't pushing it the bus drivers/unions aren't and neither are the operators. Technology doesn't restrict it with CCTV on doors & sensors in the doors incase anything gets stuck. They could have all all door boarding with B-Line maybe if they went with a private operator instead of STA. I have feeling bus drivers are become more anti-rear door ever since Opal I notice so often people sticking their arm back into the bus to tap off after initially forgetting to tap off.

London Transport has used all-door loading when they had the artics. I would think with its proximity to the European continent, there would be two competing "camps" within LT: those who see the more efficient European practice and who want to bring it to UK and those who want to continue the traditional way. Depending which politician is Lord Mayor, one or other group is on top at any given time (mostly the traditionalists).

In NSW it's stuck in a rut with a backward union, a spineless transport agency and an industry run by "men in suits" who don't use buses and don't understand mass transit - probably the descendents of the engineer-mechanics (men in overalls) Geoff Johnson complained about dominating the industry in T&BT all those years ago. Unfortunately they seem to keep breeding new generations rather than die off with age! The only thing that's changed is the clothes they wear.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby rogf24 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:51 pm

tonyp wrote:London Transport has used all-door loading when they had the artics. I would think with its proximity to the European continent, there would be two competing "camps" within LT: those who see the more efficient European practice and who want to bring it to UK and those who want to continue the traditional way. Depending which politician is Lord Mayor, one or other group is on top at any given time (mostly the traditionalists).

The current mayor of London is considering reintroducing artics.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby rogf24 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:22 pm

Swift wrote:Boston has discovered the wonders of crowd management by utilising all doors.


Followup
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/10/13/ ... g-by-2020/
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:12 pm


Absolutely love the animated GIF - 26 seconds vs 79 seconds.



This should be taken and rammed down the throats of TfNSW and RTBU.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:28 pm

They even thought to have two sets of desto equipment on the bendy. Even car worshipping America walks all over our staid bus scene.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby grog » Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:44 am

Here is something interesting when compared to the Australian context. NYC bus drivers union joining calls for all door boarding across all services.

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/10/19/ ... -the-city/
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:43 am

grog wrote:Here is something interesting when compared to the Australian context. NYC bus drivers union joining calls for all door boarding across all services.

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/10/19/ ... -the-city/

Yes, it comes from the union this time and for obvious reasons. Perhaps RTBU members like being spat on and abused and they don't want to give up the fun.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:14 pm

It seems the only stumbling block is from the transit operator themselves. They are concerned with fare evasion -an admission that they expect the driver to bear the brunt of enforcing fare compliance instead of hiring inspectors, and letting the driver focus more on trouble outside the vehicle.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Liamena » Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:33 pm

It's not just the transit operators.

I don't particular enjoy being head-butted by some skinhead Irish backpacker while I am trying to exit the centre door with shopping bags, steps, tagging off with Opal and big puddles in the gutter to contend with.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:43 pm

Liamena wrote:It's not just the transit operators.

I don't particular enjoy being head-butted by some skinhead Irish backpacker while I am trying to exit the centre door with shopping bags, steps, tagging off with Opal and big puddles in the gutter to contend with.

So you think trains, ferries and trams should have separate entry and exit doors too?
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby simonl » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:46 am

The trains do at Olympic Park, at least during events.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby boronia » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:53 am

Liamena wrote:It's not just the transit operators.

I don't particular enjoy being head-butted by some skinhead Irish backpacker while I am trying to exit the centre door with shopping bags, steps, tagging off with Opal and big puddles in the gutter to contend with.

Not much difference at the front door at many stops; maybe worse because you have a bend to contend with. As soon as the front door opens, the stampede of boarders starts, regardless of people trying to get off.
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Stu » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:16 pm

The rtbu only like to ruffle feathers when they know that they will have a fight on their hands. This looks better to members in saying that we the union are fighting for these changes (we want this.. we want that) as opposed to wanting to negotiate and work together with TfNSW. If any member was to mention the benefits of all door loading such as customer satisfaction, customer flow and driver safety the union would probably say run along sunshine as we have bigger issues to worry about.

The rtbu need to create a campaign to bring awareness to the public and gain public support. This would then put all operators and TfNSW on notice. This would lay the foundation for formal negotiations, talks, working parties and investigation to potentially lead up to a trial. The only problem is that this is NSW where various groups involved have their own agendas, opposed to change, potential gains & losses, enemies, political aspirations and political allegiances. In other words it's a battle and the ultimate loaders are the customers of the whom are at the centre...
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:09 pm

boronia wrote:[quote="Liamena]
Not As soon as the front door opens, the stampede of boarders starts, regardless of people trying to get off.[/quote]
Disgusting inconsiderate Sydney siders. Who knew?
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby mandonov » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:20 pm

It seems like 7News is about to make an exclusive announcement on rear door boarding.

Edit: Just an announcement of the CBD all door boarding expanding to Carrington Street, with marshals..... Whoopty doo
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby freepenguin » Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:48 pm

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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby moa999 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:01 pm

So suggested that the B-Line will be all-door boarding (unsure about marshalls - would be costly at every stop so possible just the evening peak)


And the RTBU lowers it's colours once again.

Plenty of its drivers are happy to see passengers run into a shut front door.

--

Can't see why they couldn't feed live video to the drivers dash when stopped (much like the stop requested) on some newer models
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Swift » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:27 pm

moa999 wrote:So suggested that the B-Line will be all-door boarding (unsure about marshalls - would be costly at every stop so possible just the evening peak)


And the RTBU lowers it's colours once again.


So, will the RTBU say no to rear door boarding in the supposedly autonomous (pigs with wings) B line?
If this happens, could they at least forbid exiting by the front door?
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:05 pm

mandonov wrote:It seems like 7News is about to make an exclusive announcement on rear door boarding.

Edit: Just an announcement of the CBD all door boarding expanding to Carrington Street, with marshals..... Whoopty doo

Wow, you don't say! You're being excessively optimistic mandonov. Hell will freeze over before TfNSW gives way on this one. It wil be the last jurisdiction in Australia to change, if it ever does.

The funny thing about using marshals is that for so many years they went full belt to reduce labour costs by getting rid of conductors. If they're introducing marshals they're heading back to the old costly ways again.

One day I rode a Gong Shuttle bus where the driver's camera display was accidentally shown also on the big screen inside the bus. You could see straight away that the driver's view of the centre door is excellent, so all the earlier safety concerns have been swept away. However, the driver was using the CCTV for the opposite purpose - to see when somebody was trying to board so that he was able to slam the door in their face with split second timing ..... :roll:
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Mr OC Benz » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:18 pm

Looking forward to this even if it's only a small change. Carrington St is very space-constrained for waiting passengers and even the buses trying to pick up, often with the dwell time of buses at the stops exceeding the frequency during the critical peak. Hopefully goodbye to queues backed up from Stand A up and around to York St in the PM peak!
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby GazzaOak » Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:04 pm

tonyp wrote:
The funny thing about using marshals is that for so many years they went full belt to reduce labour costs by getting rid of conductors. If they're introducing marshals they're heading back to the old costly ways again.:


It's only used for afternoon peak really, so its not really as costly as having full time bus conductors....
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby tonyp » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:45 pm

GazzaOak wrote:
It's only used for afternoon peak really, so its not really as costly as having full time bus conductors....

Don't they load UNSW buses (both ways) through all doors or still through one?
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Re: Use of Back Door on Buses

Postby Qantas94Heavy » Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:17 pm

tonyp wrote:Don't they load UNSW buses (both ways) through all doors or still through one?


Generally only for Central -> UNSW. On the return trip staff are present, but they don't open the rear doors for whatever reason. In the rare event a driver does, the staff gets them to close it. :?

In my experience, to fill a bus with about 60 passengers usually takes 2 minutes with front door boarding.
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