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Opal Card Fare Issues

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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby boronia » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:31 pm

Having two Opal cards would solve that problem. :idea: :?:
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:56 pm

But the fares for the two trips which would each be a separate journey would likely be more than the fare for the combined journey. So the benefit would not be the full difference between the two airport access amounts.
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby boronia » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:21 pm

Central to International (peak): $17.18; off peak $15.16
Central to Mascot (peak): $3.38, MAscot to International: $8.98 (save 4.82);
off peak: $2.36 + $7.96 (save $4.84)

And for a pensioner (using an adult Opal for the airport leg), $8.98 vs $14.09
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby Liamena » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:06 pm

I didn't have time to get off the train at Mascot, tag off and on, and get the next train. Actually, I did have time, because the flight was almost 2 hours late, but I didn't know that at the time.

On the way back, I caught the bus from the airport to Mascot station, and I noticed about 10 other people on the bus doing the same thing. I usually go to Banksia, and I usually see very few, if any, people going there.

When Mascot and Green Square were originally opened, they had very expensive fares to the city. Maybe cheaper fares to the airport were intended to be some kind of trade-off for that.
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby boronia » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:27 pm

I have used the 400 from the east to get to/from the airport a few times, and there has always been considerable obvious interchange with trains at Mascot. But it can be a long drag between Mascot and International when road traffic is heavy.

However, with that reduced gate fee, it might be a viable time saver to use the train to/from Mascot.
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby captainch » Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:11 pm

came down from Townsville last Monday to go to ROYAL North shore hospital have a FREE vetrans OPAL CARD at mascot all gates were open so nobody paid tapped on at town hall nothing happened same when I GOT OF TRAIN AT ST LEONARDS! LATTER AFTER 7PM RETURNED to mascot nothing registered masses of people walking thru open gates arrived home called opel call centre mext day the open thing registered on my card was return train from town hall to st leonards & return all free domesic station must have lost a fortune that day! so glad to get out of Sydney! :shock: had been 13 years since I was in the city! :(
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Liamena » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:02 pm

Scammed by Opal, what went wrong here ?

I went somewhere on the train, and when I tagged off I could not see the balance because of the sun.

The bus was there and I caught the bus 600 metres, two stops, down the road which I don't normally do but I thought I would be able to see
the Opal balance on the reader inside the bus.

Big mistake because it charged me $2.15.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby simonl » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:39 pm

^ My guess is the tag off failed. Is it a registered card? You could check online.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby sunnyyan » Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:55 pm

I think the tap off failed as well. You can register the card now (if not registered) and check the history. It would have charged you a default fare (train) and not applied the transfer discount. If it has, you can report a problem online.
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby andy_centralcoast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:25 pm

I've had issues with the new gates at train stations not registering some tap ons or tap offs on the screen, but then when you try again you get a default fare instead of the expected "you already tapped off".
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby Passenger 57 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:40 pm

There is no need to register to check recent Opal card history.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby andy_centralcoast » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:26 pm

I've discovered this week that taking 2 trains separated by a trackwork bus doesn't count as a transfer, resulting in a higher fare.

The trains that normally go via the T1 North Shore in the morning peak are terminating at Berowra with Berowra to Gordon replaced by bus due to the Hornsby Junction trackwork.

The normal fare from Gosford to St Leonards in peak is $6.61 - surprisingly this is also the fare from Gosford to Berowra.

I tapped off at Berowra, caught the bus (free - no Opal), then tapped on again for the train at Gordon. When I tapped off at St Leonards I got charged another $3.46 despite being within the 60 minute transfer window.

I hit the daily cap on the way home, so it could be worse, but I'm still going to try calling Opal for a fare adjustment. Paying an extra $3.46 for a 40 minute longer trip just doesn't seem fair.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby jpp42 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:35 pm

This method of fare charging has been the case since the start of Opal; but at least you used to get credited separate journeys for these disconnected segments. Now, in order to close the Erskineville/Macdonaldtown loophole, the system charges new fares but still counts them as the same journey if tapped on within the 60 minute transfer window.

Edit: mod please also move this to "Fare Issues" thread
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:40 pm

The fact that it was separated by a replacement bus would have nothing to do with it as the system would not know about since you did not tap on or off on the bus concerned.

I am not sure but there may be a distance factor involved when transferring and that distance may have been exceeded. But that does not make things fair when trackwork is involved.
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby andy_centralcoast » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:03 pm

I didn't think the Erskineville/Macdonaldtown loophole was worth doing anymore once they replaced free trips with half price trips.

I understand the system can't know about the trackwork bus in between, but I can think of possible solutions like perhaps programming Berowra/Gordon/Epping as a transfer group (similar to the various City stations) during the trackwork period, or even just putting something into the trackwork information acknowledging the issue and asking us to call Opal for a fare adjustment. Ideally they could automatically run a bulk fare adjustment across the system for anyone with the affected travel pattern.

I'd guess the majority of people probably haven't even noticed or realised. It's a shame TfNSW hasn't been more proactive about an issue like this.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:57 pm

For the "umpteenth" time I got overcharged on the fare, but today I got charged double what the fare was simply because I took a train & connecting bus within 5 minutes of each other. And of note, is that when I tapped on the 110, nothing about the bus's machine showing "Transfer", which it should have. The activity statement shows Civic to Newcastle. (those tap on & off points are incorrect)

Of note is that some Route 110 drivers turn the Opal machine off, while others leave it on.

Oh and should Opal workers know that their is no longer a train line between Wickham & Newcastle Station?
Because she asked did you get a train from Civic to Newcastle. I don't know how many times I tried to explain to her!

andy_centralcoast wrote:I've discovered this week that taking 2 trains separated by a trackwork bus doesn't count as a transfer, resulting in a higher fare.
That is disgusting - it should be counted as the one trip, but do what I did & contact Opal.
And if you succeed in getting that refund, you'll need to tap on &/or off within an hour, otherwise you won't get the refund - Shame we can't charge Opal for the cost of the fuel, when that happens. It mightn't sound much, but can add up.

And yes Opal confirmed they did overcharge me, but that you have to tap on &/or off within 60 minutes to be able to get that refund. What if a passenger can't get to an Opal machine within an hour? - And before certain people say "then you've forfeited your refund", that's theft plain & simple.
Shouldn't have to go back to tap on & off in order to get the refund, after all it's their fault, not the passenger's in these cases. Opal should automatically credit your Opal card immediately, without any need to go tap on &/or off to get a refund.

But onto other fare issues. I would say now that I have about 600 errors (yes six hundred!) of various descriptions & varying degrees. I would say that's close to about a 40% - 45% error rate!

EG: No tap on to XYZ even though I tapped on. XYZ station to No tap off - even though I tapped off (& have proof that I did tap on), saying I tapped on & then off - at a bus stops that the bus route doesn't even go pass & that my tap on was get this - about 6 km away from where I really got on at!, And the "standard reply" excuses that Opal uses :roll: ! What if an inspector got on & he claims I didn't tap on when I did?

And how about this one? An Opal fare says I took the Stockton Ferry from Stockton to Broadmeadow! (And no that is no joke!)
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby boronia » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:31 pm

Newcastle Flyer wrote:
andy_centralcoast wrote:I've discovered this week that taking 2 trains separated by a trackwork bus doesn't count as a transfer, resulting in a higher fare.
That is disgusting - it should be counted as the one trip, but do what I did & contact Opal.
And if you succeed in getting that refund, you'll need to tap on &/or off within an hour, otherwise you won't get the refund - Shame we can't charge Opal for the cost of the fuel, when that happens. It mightn't sound much, but can add up.

You should be charged for just the one trip, without tapping off/on for the bus section. The times I have been caught in this situation, the station gates are left open and everybody simply walks through to/from the bus. The bus is part of the train journey, not a separate bus journey.

Is there some other official ruling on this?
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby moa999 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:49 pm

Newcastle Flyer wrote:And if you succeed in getting that refund, you'll need to tap on &/or off within an hour, otherwise you won't get the refund - Shame we can't charge Opal for the cost of the fuel, when that happens. It mightn't sound much, but can add up.

And yes Opal confirmed they did overcharge me, but that you have to tap on &/or off within 60 minutes to be able to get that refund. What if a passenger can't get to an Opal machine within an hour? - And before certain people say "then you've forfeited your refund", that's theft plain & simple.
Shouldn't have to go back to tap on & off in order to get the refund, after all it's their fault, not the passenger's in these cases. Opal should automatically credit your Opal card immediately, without any need to go tap on &/or off to get a refund.


Say what. The refund is processed like a normal top-up. It is available after an hour (conservative statement) and remains available for up to 60 days.

Per the FAQ:
60 days to collect balance transfers and adjustments
Opal card balance transfers and adjustments must be collected, by tapping on at an Opal card reader, within 60 days, otherwise you will need to contact Opal Customer Care to reapply.

The last few adjustments Ive done via the online portal - so no idea when the adjustment will be processed, but sometime in the next few days I get a small +$x.xx when tapping on
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby andy_centralcoast » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:06 pm

boronia wrote:
Newcastle Flyer wrote:That is disgusting - it should be counted as the one trip, but do what I did & contact Opal.

You should be charged for just the one trip, without tapping off/on for the bus section. The times I have been caught in this situation, the station gates are left open and everybody simply walks through to/from the bus. The bus is part of the train journey, not a separate bus journey.

Is there some other official ruling on this?


The Opal website says: "Customers travelling on a train or ferry replacement bus service must tap on and tap off to pay the fare for the distance travelled. If the replacement bus is not Opal enabled, simply show your Opal card to the driver when boarding and no fare will be charged for that trip."

Both Berowra and Gordon don't have gates, so I could probably just walk past without tapping on and off next time, even though that feels a little wrong - there are no signs saying to do this, no information on the website and no announcements or staff giving instructions.

Epping has gates, so for anyone catching the replacement bus from Berowra to Epping, if they don't tap off at Berowra they'll get a default fare when tapping on again at Epping (unless aware and able to ask staff to let through the wide gate)
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby Passenger 57 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:17 am

As bad as that situation is - and its not like they haven't had time to implement a simple process such as signs that say, "Do not tap off/on if transferring to/from trackwork buses. Tap on/off only at start/end of journey", people who buy a single trip ticket for the full journey face additional cost or risk inconvenience if not a penalty if they do tap off and tap on without purchasing another ticket for the remainder of their journey and encounter a RPO.

In areas where they seem to use Opal equipped buses exclusively for trackwork, Opal could easily handle the situation the same way it is done in Newcastle, i.e. Opal operating in rail mode on buses.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Postby Passenger 57 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:09 am

Newcastle Flyer wrote:EG: No tap on to XYZ even though I tapped on. XYZ station to No tap off - even though I tapped off (& have proof that I did tap on), saying I tapped on & then off.

If the fare is correct (and who cares if it is), the "No tap" is simply the result of data from the reader failing to get to the backend, but assuming the reader functioned correctly you wouldn't have been charged a default fare.

And how about this one? An Opal fare says I took the Stockton Ferry from Stockton to Broadmeadow! (And no that is no joke!)

What fare was charged? As far as we know the Stockton Ferry uses pretty much the same implementation of Opal as buses. If the reader is basing the fare calculation solely on location I expect you would have been charged a 8+km bus fare - which may have made no difference if you'd already traveled sufficiently far.
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby andy_centralcoast » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:23 pm

Passenger 57 wrote:As bad as that situation is - and its not like they haven't had time to implement a simple process such as signs that say, "Do not tap off/on if transferring to/from trackwork buses. Tap on/off only at start/end of journey", people who buy a single trip ticket for the full journey face additional cost or risk inconvenience if not a penalty if they do tap off and tap on without purchasing another ticket for the remainder of their journey and encounter a RPO.

In areas where they seem to use Opal equipped buses exclusively for trackwork, Opal could easily handle the situation the same way it is done in Newcastle, i.e. Opal operating in rail mode on buses.

I called 131500 today to clarify. They told me Sydney Trains should be advising people not to tap off for the trackwork bus section in the middle - only at start and end of rail journey as per normal.

I suggested this advice should be added to the trackwork info on the website and be provided by station staff or signage. She transferred me to another agent to log this as feedback.

I asked if it could be fixed ASAP during the current trackwork period, but was basically told that this isn't how the feedback process works - they won't make any changes to current arrangements, however may take feedback into consideration when planning similar future events. Still, it shouldn't be hard to add a sentence onto the website or send an email to staff asking them to make announcements or put up a sign?

He also said that they have no way to escalate or prioritise feedback and the average time for it to be processed is 5-7 business days - so basically someone will look at it just as the trackwork period comes to an end!!
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby Mr Twig » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:24 pm

andy_centralcoast wrote:I called 131500 today to clarify. They told me Sydney Trains should be advising people not to tap off for the trackwork bus section in the middle - only at start and end of rail journey as per normal.


Doesn't that contradict their own rules? You should be tapping off at Berowra.
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby Fleet Lists » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:16 am

Theoretically yes you should be tapping off at Berowra to strictly meet the rules but that is causing a problem when a rail trip is broken by a bus trip.
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Re: Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:30 am

Mr Twig wrote:
Doesn't that contradict their own rules?


Really the only ones who know what the rule means are the people who wrote it and the High Court.
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