• Advertisement

Opal Card Fare Issues

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Opal Card Fare Issues

Postby peterkl » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:13 am

Image

Today is Sunday, so it shouldnt be a problem, but if it is on weekdays, I'll have a possibility for being charged $7 more in Opal.
Shouldnt be shown as $0 before discount in Transaction 8?
peterkl
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:33 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:45 am

It is correct as far as I can see - you are then given the discount.
Why should you not be charged the second $7 on weekdays?
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 19883
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 965 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby moa999 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:00 am

Txns 7 and 9 going by the times are Transfers (pretty sure the tag on is within 1hr of tagoff or the allowable time for Manly) and the "additional" fare at the moment is Zero.
Txn 8 is a new Journey, the full fare is charged..... but then the daily cap is applied

If you did the same on a Monday say

1106 OP - CQ 7.00 --- 7.00
1213 CQ - MF 0.00 --- 0.00 (Transfer)
1415 MF - CQ 7.00 --- 7.00
1445 CQ - KingSt 0.00 --- 0.00 (Transfer)

Then say you went back to CQ
1645 KingSt - CQ 5.60 4.60 1.00 (Daily cap kicking in)
moa999
 
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:12 pm
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby peterkl » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:10 am

but the problem is MF got 130 mins of transfer time allowed...
peterkl
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:33 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:47 am

13.06 to 16.06 exceeds 130 minutes ie 180 minutes
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 19883
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 965 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby simonl » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:21 pm

What's 130 minutes? Last I heard, the transfer window was 60 minutes. Special rule?
simonl
 
Posts: 7937
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 842 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby BeauGiles » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:37 pm

simonl wrote:What's 130 minutes? Last I heard, the transfer window was 60 minutes. Special rule?

60 minutes is the standard transfer time, with the exception of the Manly ferry; as you don't tap off for Manly, the transfer window is 120 minutes.

60 minutes applies to all services except the Sydney Ferries Manly ferry service where the standard transfer time is 130 minutes from tap on.

https://www.opal.com.au/en/footer/glossary/
Posts made are my own personal opinions, and aren't made on behalf of my employer.
User avatar
BeauGiles
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:13 pm
Has thanked: 227 times
Been thanked: 260 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby stupid_girl » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:45 pm

It is perhaps a bug in the system. Free transfer should be offered for trip 8.
stupid_girl
 
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:25 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby thunderbird » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:22 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but on the picture of opal transactions, is the number on the side indeed the transaction number of the week and not the actual journey number?

The first few transactions could have been tap on and tap on reversals, hence why they are not counted as journeys, see the middle column.
thunderbird
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:11 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby thunderbird » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:24 pm

Or rather the left hand column is transactions since the start of the months the first journey was on the Sunday for that given mon-sum trip reward week
thunderbird
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:11 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:02 pm

simonl wrote:What's 130 minutes? Last I heard, the transfer window was 60 minutes. Special rule?

Read the rules
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 19883
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 965 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:07 pm

stupid_girl wrote:It is perhaps a bug in the system. Free transfer should be offered for trip 8.

it has been discounted for that down to 0 so no problem.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 19883
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 965 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby BeauGiles » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:22 pm

thunderbird wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but on the picture of opal transactions, is the number on the side indeed the transaction number of the week and not the actual journey number?

The first few transactions could have been tap on and tap on reversals, hence why they are not counted as journeys, see the middle column.

The transaction number is every transaction since you started using your Opal card; I'm up to number 498 since getting my Opal card in December last year.

These include every tap on, tap off, fare reversals etc; you'll also see trips are 'condensed' into one line (Eg, Town Hall to Circular Quay is one line), despite being made of two transactions (your tap on, and tap off) - probably for simplicity and to save space - but you obviously can't see when you tapped off, only tapped on.
Posts made are my own personal opinions, and aren't made on behalf of my employer.
User avatar
BeauGiles
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:13 pm
Has thanked: 227 times
Been thanked: 260 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby simonl » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:57 am

Fleet Lists wrote:13.06 to 16.06 exceeds 130 minutes ie 180 minutes

Surely it would be wrong to use the 13.06 time rather than the 14.13 time.
simonl
 
Posts: 7937
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 842 times
Been thanked: 361 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby peterkl » Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:58 pm

I have sent the bug to Opal team and waiting for their reply :)
peterkl
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:33 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:51 pm

It will be interesting to see what they come up with. Please keep us informed.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 19883
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 965 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby peterkl » Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:19 pm

They didnt answer the question.

Dear Kwok Leung,

Thank you for contacting Opal Customer Care.

You were charged $2.50 for your travelling on the Sunday. If this were a weekday, you would have been charged $7 each way from Circular Quay to Manly Wharf. As an example, a journey where you transfer at Circular Quay to another ferry within 130 minutes you will be charged one fare.

Thank you for your feedback.

Reference Number: 167546
Yours sincerely
Opal Customer Care


I submit the problem again
Hi,

Thanks for your reply on ref 167546 this afternoon and I would like to clarify the 130 mins transfer rule. It is understandable that the time allowed for changing from other ferries to Manly ferry via CQ (and vice versa) is 130 mins and to be counted as 1 journey, while 60 mins limits on other modes.

However, the problem is lying on my transaction 7 & 8, even through they are within 130 mins, are they still considered as 2 journeys? If it is counted as 2 journeys, is that mean that 60 mins transfer limit will apply or even If I take the ferry from CQ and Manly and then return and tap on manly immediatlely regardless the time will still be counted as 2 journeys?

Thanks!
Peter
peterkl
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:33 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:04 pm

Very much what I had expected. They wont take it very seriously as in the final count you were charged the right amount.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 19883
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 965 times
Been thanked: 1043 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby 3808 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:54 pm

What Fleet Lists said - 13:06 to 16:06 is over 130 mins. That is, it seems like they measure transfer time from the first trip in the sequence, not the last.

Otherwise, it would be possible to string out endless transfers over the course of the day as long as none of them, individually, exceed the relevant time limit.
3808
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:17 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby Bus_fellow » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:23 pm

3808 wrote:What Fleet Lists said - 13:06 to 16:06 is over 130 mins. That is, it seems like they measure transfer time from the first trip in the sequence, not the last.

Otherwise, it would be possible to string out endless transfers over the course of the day as long as none of them, individually, exceed the relevant time limit.


My understanding is that normally, 60 minutes applies from tap-off - that is, you are making a single journey if you tap on within 60 minutes of your last tap-off.

However, as passengers on the Manly ferry only tap on (either a CQ or Manly), this is not possible. So for this service the rule is that it is the same trip if you tap on again with 130 minutes of your tap-on to the Manly ferry.

On that basis, I think this is indeed a glitch and I would say that if you don't get a good answer from the Opal team, you should use a different channel to try and get a satisfactory answer.
Bus_fellow
 
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:47 am
Has thanked: 130 times
Been thanked: 263 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:44 am

peterkl wrote:They didnt answer the question.




Be aware that there is nothing unusual about that.
Tonymercury
 
Posts: 2476
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:14 pm
Location: Botany NSW
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 317 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby moa999 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:27 am

Assume this is only a
Somewhere-CQ-Manly-CQ-Somewhere glitch,

whereas
CQ-Manly-CQ works fine

Alternatively is there potentially a limit to the number of free transfers.
has anyone done more than one on rail?
moa999
 
Posts: 1799
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:12 pm
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 256 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby pgt » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:15 pm

This thread got me looking at my Opal statement and back in July, on a Sunday, I did the following:
* 12:04 Tap on reversal at Circular Quay (actually, I got on a train, went to Central but had to double back and got out at Circular Quay again) = $0.00
* 12:34 Ferry Circular Quay to Manly ($7.00, minus $4.50 for Day Cap = $2.50) <== This was the start of a single journey apparently
* 14:18 Ferry Manly to Circular Quay ($7.00, minus $7.00 for Day Cap = $0.00) <== This trip, and the next do not have journey numbers
* 15:16 Train Circular Quay to Town Hall ($3.30, minus $3.30 for Day Cap = $0.00)

Recently I did the following train trip which shows up differently to how the ferry is calculated:
* 19:11 Train St Leonards to Chatswood ($3.30, minus $0.99 off peak = $2.31)
* 20:04 Train Chatswood to St Leonards ($0.00)
Both of these trips have journey #1 written next to them (which isn't surprising since there was less than 60 minutes spent at Chatswood).

Read of it what you will - be interesting to see what the logic is behind "charging" for the return Manly ferry trip.
"It's my way or the (side of the) highway".
Might be a way to lead life, but more like the way that some people drive.
User avatar
pgt
 
Posts: 995
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:05 pm
Location: Now deep in STA territory
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 50 times
Favourite Vehicle: MAN SL202/MB O305G/Volvo B10M

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby 3808 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:47 pm

Bus_fellow wrote:
3808 wrote:What Fleet Lists said - 13:06 to 16:06 is over 130 mins. That is, it seems like they measure transfer time from the first trip in the sequence, not the last.

Otherwise, it would be possible to string out endless transfers over the course of the day as long as none of them, individually, exceed the relevant time limit.


My understanding is that normally, 60 minutes applies from tap-off - that is, you are making a single journey if you tap on within 60 minutes of your last tap-off.

However, as passengers on the Manly ferry only tap on (either a CQ or Manly), this is not possible. So for this service the rule is that it is the same trip if you tap on again with 130 minutes of your tap-on to the Manly ferry.

On that basis, I think this is indeed a glitch and I would say that if you don't get a good answer from the Opal team, you should use a different channel to try and get a satisfactory answer.


I still don't think there's a glitch, although it is true that there was a glitch in my previous post. The first trip was from Homebush to CQ, so the allowed transfer time would have been 60 mins from the tap off from that trip, not the 130 mins for Manly.

The CQ to Manly trip would have been within that window. However, the Manly to CQ trip definitely wasn't, hence it was counted as the start of a new journey.
3808
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:17 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Opal Card Possibility of incorrect Calcuating fares...

Postby 3808 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:54 pm

PGT - one possible explanation for your July experience is that once the day-cap is reached on a Sunday, the system doesn't bother doing the other adjustments. It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone did the same journey sequence on a weekday.
3808
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:17 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Next


  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Sydney / NSW

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests