Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

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neilrex
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by neilrex »

I am surprised that the safety so-called experts allow this.

What are they supposed to do ? Stop in the middle of the road, if the street is full of parked cars ? Stop unsafely at the street corners ? Or ban huge amounts of valuable parking, to create contingency bus stops which might never ever be used ?

I am sure that the bus drivers are actually quite capable of stopping randomly in the middle of the road to enable a few people to get on or off. It is probably actually safer in many places to get on or off the bus in the middle of the road, rather than the side of the road with wonky kerbs and drains and huge potholes and puddles.

But I am still surprised that the experts allow it.

When someone gets off a bus stopped in the middle of the road, and then breaks their knee on some car's towbar while walking between parked cars to the sidewalk, does someone get blamed ?

Glen
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Glen »

tonyp wrote:
Glen wrote: I think what they are proposing is a bit more extensive than that, i.e. operating to no fixed route.
What parameters are there on this concept, like how far are buses allowed to go to pick or drop somebody before they cross over into taxi territory? An Opal fare is certainly cheaper than a taxi fare.
Well we probably have ideas, but shall await the official announcement.

As I understand it any vehicle with 12 seats or less comes under the 'Point to Point' legislation rather than traditional bus legislation.

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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Glen »

neilrex wrote:I am surprised that the safety so-called experts allow this.

What are they supposed to do ? Stop in the middle of the road, if the street is full of parked cars ? Stop unsafely at the street corners ? Or ban huge amounts of valuable parking, to create contingency bus stops which might never ever be used ?

I am sure that the bus drivers are actually quite capable of stopping randomly in the middle of the road to enable a few people to get on or off. It is probably actually safer in many places to get on or off the bus in the middle of the road, rather than the side of the road with wonky kerbs and drains and huge potholes and puddles.

But I am still surprised that the experts allow it.

When someone gets off a bus stopped in the middle of the road, and then breaks their knee on some car's towbar while walking between parked cars to the sidewalk, does someone get blamed ?
I think you are missing the point.

Turn your view around and start thinking of this like a taxi or Uber, then work backwards towards what buses of smaller sizes can do (offering integration with the entire public transport network / fares / apps), then you'll get the picture. :)

Liamena
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Liamena »

Well, I can see why the bus on demand might be a good idea, and I don't oppose it.

I was expressing some surprise that the safety "experts" would allow it. For the passenger safety reasons I mentioned previously.

And also, buses don't just run anywhere, on any street. When I was very actively involved in transport issues with a Sydney council, some years ago, there would be various proposals for bus route changes, and they would always have to be tested, whether the road was wide enough, whether the buses would fit around the corners, whether the no standing zones near the corners would need to be extended for the bus to fit around the corners, and so on.

For any random wandering around the suburbs, there are 12 possible ways for buses to go, at every street corner. In suburbs which don't have consistently wide streets, you would need to analyse all of those 12 possible turns, potentially for every street corner. It's quite a lot of work.

I am not convinced that replacing obstinate unionists with more flexible contactors would necessarily resolve some of these physical issues.

And, as a passenger, the standard detours can be bad enough. Adding random unplanned detours to those, might be very annoying....

I've noticed that in places like Adamstown, all the streets are wide and this sort of thing might not be an issue there.

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boronia
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by boronia »

Reminds me of the airport shuttle buses that operate to CBD hotels. They will take you to your destination, eventually, but you could go anywhere all over the city before you get there.
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Glen
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Glen »

Liamena wrote:And also, buses don't just run anywhere, on any street. When I was very actively involved in transport issues with a Sydney council, some years ago, there would be various proposals for bus route changes, and they would always have to be tested, whether the road was wide enough, whether the buses would fit around the corners, whether the no standing zones near the corners would need to be extended for the bus to fit around the corners, and so on.

For any random wandering around the suburbs, there are 12 possible ways for buses to go, at every street corner. In suburbs which don't have consistently wide streets, you would need to analyse all of those 12 possible turns, potentially for every street corner. It's quite a lot of work.
Some 'On Demand' services elsewhere use vehicles no larger than a maxi-taxi.
Liamena wrote:And, as a passenger, the standard detours can be bad enough. Adding random unplanned detours to those, might be very annoying....
I think the market is for pax who would be happy with transport to their door rather than a long walk, not necessarily as a replacement for high frequency trunk corridors.

In a way it is a step on from the Integrated Network Plans of the mid-late 2000's, when meandering back-street bus routes were downgraded to 'shopper hoppers' and the saved resources were reinvested into higher frequency main road routes.

Now we just have better technology!
boronia wrote:Reminds me of the airport shuttle buses that operate to CBD hotels. They will take you to your destination, eventually, but you could go anywhere all over the city before you get there.
In a way, yes.

Some people value door-to-door more highly than fast-and-frequent-but-then-you-walk.

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Bedford-29
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Bedford-29 »

How about a petrol or diesel powered trams for Newcastle like did in Karachi Pakistan many years ago.Picture from Asia Climate Journal
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rogf24
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by rogf24 »

Hybrid Overhead Electric-Diesel powered trams are in use today in a number of German cities.

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tonyp
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by tonyp »

Bedford-29 wrote:How about a petrol or diesel powered trams for Newcastle like did in Karachi Pakistan many years ago.Picture from Asia Climate Journal
I note that the photo is from the Asian Climate Journal. Used as an example of a contributer to worsening air pollution (together with the buses in the background) perhaps?!

Newcastle has already been there, done that!

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Glen
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Glen »

Wow .... complete with Mad Markham's Bargain Warehouse. A forerunner of today's $2 shops perhaps?

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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Fleet Lists »

Fleet Lists wrote:From today's Telegraph
Reading this http://revitalisingnewcastle.nsw.gov.au ... transport/ it wont happen until early 2018.
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mandonov
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by mandonov »

The Broadmeadow Station easy access upgrade is complete. Used the lift today in fact.

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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Fleet Lists »

I am amazed that there is still nothing on Transport Info about the handover of Newcastle bus services to Newcastle Transport as from tomorrow.

The current bus timetables on Transport Info expire after today so no timetables available after today.

Just for historic purposes copies of all the current Newcastle Buses timetables are available on a permanent basis - search for https://transportnsw.info/documents/timetables/* in https://archive.org/web/
If searching for a particular route add the route number before the asterisk - dont delete the asterisk. (Add Stkn for the ferry).
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Fleet Lists »

The STA Newcastle timetables have now disappeared from Transport Info although there is still over 4 hours to go for today and have been replaced by new Newcastle Transport timetables starting tomorrow 1st July with no finishing date. I assume they are basically the same as the previous timetables.
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Newcastle buses now Private.

Post by CCCC »

NBN news last night first day of Government Buses under private control.

You Govey guys not gunna be happy.

Im out of here.

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/47643 ... es/?cs=305

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tonyp
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Re: Newcastle buses now Private.

Post by tonyp »

What strikes me most is the lack of information, not only for users, but the merely curious. TfNSW's new transport (ahem) "information" website has nothing specific about catching PT in Newcastle, apart from this map that appears to have been released today:

https://transportnsw.info/document/2094 ... rk_map.pdf

Keolis Downer hasn't updated their website to cover Newcastle alongside their other operations. It's just business as usual based on the local knowledge of Novacastrians. Bad luck if you're a visitor from outside.

The Transportinfo website is generally a bit of a shambles of stuff thrown together from previous information sources without checking. Looking at the Illawarra for instance, the Gong Shuttle is listed as being under Dions when it isn't and when you go to the link to Premier, it's just the page for Premier Charters which has the north-of-Wollongong services, no shuttle and none of the rest of the Wollongong services. What a lazy, sloppy job TfNSW has done.
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Fleet Lists »

I cant find the page you are referring to
https://transportnsw.info/contact-us/sc ... timetables shows Premier Illawarra and not Premier Charters
https://transportnsw.info/travel-info/w ... rator-maps shows both Premier Charters and Premier Illawarra.

I certainly agree that the whole things seems to be done very low key as far as the Newcastle change is concerned except for what I posted last night.
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tonyp
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by tonyp »

Fleet Lists wrote:I cant find the page you are referring to
https://transportnsw.info/contact-us/sc ... timetables shows Premier Illawarra and not Premier Charters
https://transportnsw.info/travel-info/w ... rator-maps shows both Premier Charters and Premier Illawarra.

I certainly agree that the whole things seems to be done very low key as far as the Newcastle change is concerned except for what I posted last night.
Your first link is to school bus services and your second link is the page I'm referring to that brings up Premier Charters. This is the Premier Illawarra page:

http://www.premierillawarra.com.au/

On the same basis, you'd think Keolis Downer would have got a webpage ready for the changeover, but their Australian website virtually doesn't even acknowledge Newcastle:

http://keolisdowner.com.au/

Perhaps TfNSW told them they would do it and the result is just a hard-to-read map and a journey planner and presumably downloadable timetables somewhere - if you know which timetable you need.
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Fleet Lists »

http://www.newcastletransport.info/ is now available.
I have manged to download a full pdf timetable for route 118 and Stockton ferry from their ferry links. dated 1 July 2017.

They also have full pdf's for their bus services with thee same groupings as Newcastle buses had, but I have not been successful in loading any yet but I have to go out now.
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Fleet Lists »

tonyp wrote: Your first link is to school bus services and your second link is the page I'm referring to that brings up Premier Charters. This is the Premier Illawarra page:

http://www.premierillawarra.com.au/

On the same basis, you'd think Keolis Downer would have got a webpage ready for the changeover, but their Australian website virtually doesn't even acknowledge Newcastle:

http://keolisdowner.com.au/

Perhaps TfNSW told them they would do it and the result is just a hard-to-read map and a journey planner and presumably downloadable timetables somewhere - if you know which timetable you need.
But where does it list the Gong under Dions?
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tonyp
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by tonyp »

Fleet Lists wrote:http://www.newcastletransport.info/ is now available.
Well that's much better!
Fleet Lists wrote: But where does it list the Gong under Dions?
Here, under Illawarra:

https://transportnsw.info/travel-info/w ... rator-maps
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mandonov
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by mandonov »

From the About Us page of Newcastle Transport:
There will be no major changes in 2017. Newcastle Transport will continue to work with the community, government and other key stakeholders to improve the network, and will develop improvements to services for implementation in January 2018.
So we're only 6 months away from major changes.

There's also a good feedback page that will supposedly influence network changes: http://www.newcastletransport.info/get- ... int-anchor

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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by Fleet Lists »

That is the North Gong shuttle which is different from the route 55A and 55C shuttle so that information is correct.
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by mk2n75 »

The loan buses have returned to Sydney today.
B10B, 3561 has been scrapped due to acco damage
possible Transport NSW may replace it with a new bus for,,, Newcastle Transport .

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tonyp
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Re: Newcastle light rail, renewal & integrated transport

Post by tonyp »

Fleet Lists wrote: That is the North Gong shuttle which is different from the route 55A and 55C shuttle so that information is correct.
I know the link leads to the North Gong shuttle via Dions, but the lead-in on the link says "the Wollongong free shuttle". I always think in terms of how a stranger/visitor to the system would interpret something. It's misleading. The link to Premier Illawarra on the other hand doesn't even mention the shuttle. Even worse, it links to a page on the Premier website that doesn't even mention the shuttle as one of its services. There is another page on the site that does, but this is not linked to. It all seems very slack and not compiled with the sense of precision one would expect from those managing a transport system.
Last edited by tonyp on Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:35 am, edited 4 times in total.
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