Inner West Light Rail observations

[mandonov]

A future option could be to buy more Citadis' for a reworked IWLR, and then sell the CAF's to Canberra.

[Frosty]

That brings in another question would the IWLR CAF's be compatible with Canberra network if they ever interested in buying them.

[tonyp]

Both IWLR and CSELR follow European standards which are commonly led by German practice (BOStrab), but CSELR is designed as a tramway whereas IWLR was designed as light rail in its true meaning - trams running on grade-separated heavy-rail line. The problem was that TfNSW has been constantly on the back foot in this project. It should have visualised both lines as integral parts of a system rather than isolated projects and prepared standards in advance that would have ensured compatibility across both lines - and then ensured that projects proceeded having regard to those standards.

As STMPainter2018 points out, IWLR needs modifying to tramway profiles and they'll have to play catchups modifying structure gauges/platform gaps to ensure compatibility between the two tram types. Or as I've said before, if they can beat down RMS to get a good trip time on CSELR they should have enough spare single Alstom cars available to give the CAFs the flick and have a consistent tram type operating both lines. (The Alstoms are better on the door issue anyway.) All just the usual bad planning by TfNSW that costs money to fix up later.

Frosty, I would think that the IWLR CAFs are consistent with Canberra, probably with little more than a tweaking of running gear.

[hornetfig]

if they can beat down RMS to get a good trip time on CSELR they should have enough spare single Alstom cars available to give the CAFs the flick and have a consistent tram type operating both lines.

If they can beat down a good trip time on the CSELR they should run the CSELR at an actual turn-up-and-go frequency instead of every 8 minutes.

[tonyp]

If they can beat down a good trip time on the CSELR they should run the CSELR at an actual turn-up-and-go frequency instead of every 8 minutes.

The line has a design capacity of two minute headways on the main line, splitting to four minute on each of the branches.

[boronia]

if they can beat down RMS to get a good trip time on CSELR they should have enough spare single Alstom cars available to give the CAFs the flick and have a consistent tram type operating both lines.

If they can beat down a good trip time on the CSELR they should run the CSELR at an actual turn-up-and-go frequency instead of every 8 minutes.

They could also improve frequency by running a single tram every 4 minutes instead of two every 8 minutes.

[Swift]

^Twice the drivers needed. They will never split them.

[tonyp]

They could also improve frequency by running a single tram every 4 minutes instead of two every 8 minutes.

That would get it directly down to 2 minute headways between Kensington Jct and Circular Quay. Don't know if the RMS and politicians are quite ready yet to impose that impact on "the motoring public" (but they should!). As Swiftie says, they would also need twice as many drivers = $$.

[matthewg]

As Swiftie says, they would also need twice as many drivers = $$.

Alstom has already tested self-stabling citadis in Paris. The showed they could have the driver exit the tram at the depot entrance and the tram took itself to the stabling road and shut down.
Siemens has demonstrated automated street running. (I actually know two of the engineers working on the Siemens project).

By the time the government thinks about increasing service frequency, Alstom will have an automation product ready to deploy.

If the libs survive the next election, they would just love to have driverless light rail to go with their driverless metro. Increase public transport service provision without increasing the pool of union members. What's not for a liberal politician not to love.

[tonyp]

Pedestrians will quickly cotton on to the fact that if they want to cross in front of a driverless tram it will stop for them. As it turns into an epidemic, George St will present a picture of stationary trams with pedestrians milling around them. When they invent a computer that knows how to do a lot of push and shove to move a vehicle along we might get somewhere.

[Swift]

Is it that hard for a computer to know when to deploy a loud horn?

[tonyp]

Is it that hard for a computer to know when to deploy a loud horn?

But then pedestrians will know that it still stops for them regardless. Paper tiger.

[rogf24]

I have a feeling it's really only the pranksters who will do this while there is a loud horn, normal people won't.

[matthewg]

When they invent a computer that knows how to do a lot of push and shove to move a vehicle along we might get somewhere.

This is already being implemented in autonomous road vehicles as it's been discovered that if they follow the rules 100% and wait, they never get a chance to pull out. So they have already implemented 'edge out' code.

[boronia]

I have a feeling it's really only the pranksters who will do this while there is a loud horn, normal people won't.

Normal pedestrians seem to be completely oblivious to horns, bells and reversing alarms, whatever their source.

There is some underlying belief that pedestrians have some overriding right of way over vehicles.

[rogf24]

There's a belief among drivers they have a right over pedestrians as well. No one knows how to share roads here in Australia.

[boronia]

There are "Rules for Pedestrians" in the Australian Road Rules.

These need to be better publicised if sharing is to work safely.

Harold Scruby is NOT a road safety expert.

[PaulSEO]

The RMS says:

You must also give way to pedestrians – even if there is no marked pedestrian crossing – if there is any danger of colliding with them.

From https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety ... rians.html

So basically, pedestrians do have some overriding right of way over vehicles

[tonyp]

A reasonable interpretation of this might be that if the vehicle has no driver, then a pedestrian is not required to give way to it!

http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/view ... /s236.html

[boronia]

Somewhat conflictingly,

NSW Road Rules:

236 Pedestrians not to cause a traffic hazard or obstruction

(1) A pedestrian must not cause a traffic hazard by moving into the path of a driver.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

(2) A pedestrian must not unreasonably obstruct the path of any driver or another pedestrian.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.

[STMPainter2018]

There's a belief among drivers they have a right over pedestrians as well. No one knows how to share roads here in Australia.

Oh here's the Tea (which means truth).

[tonyp]

Service curtailments during January:

https://transportnsw.info/alerts/detail ... k#/6027888

[BroadGauge]

Service curtailments during January:

https://transportnsw.info/alerts/detail ... k#/6027888

The tram shuttle from Convention to The Star that is running overnight during the first week of January must be the shortest scheduled light rail service in Australia by far!

It almost might seem easier for everybody involved if they were to extend the replacement buses to cover the stops at Pyrmont Bay and The Star...

[moa999]

An express service Central-Star would take a chunk of traffic id think

[stupid_girl]

Service curtailments during January:

https://transportnsw.info/alerts/detail ... k#/6027888

The tram shuttle from Convention to The Star that is running overnight during the first week of January must be the shortest scheduled light rail service in Australia by far!

It almost might seem easier for everybody involved if they were to extend the replacement buses to cover the stops at Pyrmont Bay and The Star...

Yes, it's easier to extend the replacement buses to cover the stop at The Star and that's what will be done when closure of Pirrama Rd ends.

From 6am Wednesday 2 January to 11.30pm Sunday 6 January – due to temporary full road closure of Pirrama Rd under RMS management:
From 11pm to 6am Saturday to Thursday (midnight to 6am on Friday), light rail services will run between Convention and The Star in both directions.

From 11.30pm Sunday 6 January to 6am Monday 14 January:
From 11pm to 6am Saturday to Thursday (midnight to 6am on Friday), buses will also replace light rail services between Central and The Star in both directions.