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Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:48 pm

Some optimistic speed limits coming to CSET?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby gascoyne » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:35 pm

There's an interesting video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh21-HfgJC4 of trams crossing Sth Dowling St and the Eastern Distributor. It's painful to see the delays due to absence of tram priority but it's agony to watch trams held up because they were a couple of seconds too late to cross against a tram in the opposite direction. Or is the bridge only rated to carry one tram at a time?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:12 am

gascoyne wrote:There's an interesting video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh21-HfgJC4 of trams crossing Sth Dowling St and the Eastern Distributor. It's painful to see the delays due to absence of tram priority but it's agony to watch trams held up because they were a couple of seconds too late to cross against a tram in the opposite direction. Or is the bridge only rated to carry one tram at a time?

It looks to me like they have the same dumb traffic light problem they have on IWLR and also on Gold Coast (I don't know whether the latter has been improved). That is, if a tram arrives at lights a little later than a tram on the other side, the lights will only release the tram that arrived first and holds the other tram till the next cycle.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:27 am

That is so ridiculous. That will give average speed a major hit. It's not like that section of South Dowling street couldn't cope with absolute priority for trams. The RMS, and by implication motorists, needs to be told what to go do with itself.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:48 am

Swift wrote:That is so ridiculous. That will give average speed a major hit. It's not like that section of South Dowling street couldn't cope with absolute priority for trams. The RMS, and by implication motorists, needs to be told what to go do with itself.

We have to wait and see until the start of service whether they tune it further.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:56 pm

Agree if both at a stop it should go green for both. Ideally you have another sensor 50-100m up track (or at stop in the case of some of the CBD stops) which will judge if another is approaching and hold the tram cycle till both are ready.

But traffic light tech is pretty basic.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby lunchbox » Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:44 pm

The delays to traffic on Devonshire Street caused by the slow response of the traffic signals is also ridiculous. Heaven knows what it will be like when the tram service starts.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:46 pm

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/few ... 52nw3.html

Fewer cars in Sydney CBD opens way for cycleway, more pedestrian space

Matt O'Sullivan
September 9, 2019 — 12.03am

A large drop in motorists driving into Sydney's CBD over the past four years during the building of a multibillion-dollar light rail line has opened the way for construction of a key cycleway and an expansion of permanent pedestrian-friendly space.

The City of Sydney Council is considering a cycleway along the northern end of Castlereagh Street, which will be made possible if the state's transport agency shifts bus routes to Elizabeth Street as part of an overhaul of the bus network for the start of light rail services.

Commuters will learn the details of changes to their bus services between the CBD and south-eastern suburbs about a month before the light rail line opens in December.

Express buses during peak periods will be maintained but others are set for a shake up due to the increase in capacity from trams running every four minutes in either direction between Circular Quay and Randwick from December, and on a branch line to Kingsford in March.

If it gets the green light, the bike path along Castlereagh Street between King and Liverpool streets will connect to an existing cycleway at the street's southern end.

About 8000 to 9000 fewer vehicles are travelling into the CBD on average during weekday mornings than in 2015, figures from the state's transport agency show.

Across the entire day, the number of vehicles entering the CBD has fallen by an average of almost 8 per cent, compared with 2015.

The change to motorists' habits has led the council to propose keeping closed several traffic lanes, which were originally to be reopened when the light rail line was completed.

They include a southbound lane of George Street from Bathurst to Campbell streets; the intersection of George and Dalley streets; and an eastbound lane of Devonshire Street from Chalmers to Elizabeth streets in Surry Hills.

Their closure would expand the size of pedestrian-friendly sections of the inner city.

While the cycleway at the southern end of Castlereagh Street was opened in 2015, the government put on hold plans to extend it until after the light rail line was completed.

The City of Sydney said it was preparing a feasibility study to look into options for the cycleway.

"The NSW government has not yet released details of its post-light rail bus plan, but if buses are shifted to Elizabeth Street, it would allocate street space to other road users when the cycleway is delivered," it said.

The council has also been developing options for cycleways along the northern end of Pitt Street, and a part of King Street, which would help close a missing link in the CBD's bike network.

Transport for NSW said it was "supportive" of the council progressing its plan, but it would need to consider the staging of constructions and ways to reduce the disruption caused.

The agency's coordinator general, Marg Prendergast, said the large drop in the number of motorists driving into the CBD allowed it to look at ways to make the city "more pedestrian friendly".

"We are working with the City of Sydney right now ... By reducing the number of buses coming in from the south east, it enables us to rethink how the city works," she said.

With fewer people driving into the CBD, more commuters are switching to travelling by public transport. Weekday trips rose almost 15 per cent on average in the first six months of this year, from the same period in 2015.

The changes to bus routes will be staged to avoid a repeat of the concerns raised by residents in Sydney's north west who faced significant changes to routes when a $7.3 billion metro line from Rouse Hill to Chatswood was opened in May.

If anyone has walked the route in the CBD, you can already see that these proposed new pedestrianised sections should have been included from the outset. It's clear that George Street's mall should at least to extend to Liverpool Street, if not further, with large crowds stuck on narrow footpaths next to an empty road lane in the cinema precinct. On Devonshire Street too, you can see how the closed off section between Elizabeth and Chalmers has become a de facto pedestrian space with people utilising the temporary blocks and gardens to have lunch and chat.

What's the viability and/or desirability of doing what the City of Sydney proposes and moving all Castlereagh Street buses to Elizabeth Street once the SE network has been redesigned? Seeing as these routes already use Elizabeth northbound, I imagine there would be plenty of room for them to start running southbound once the SE routes are curtailed.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby eBlog42 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:02 am

Stop signs are starting to be put put up across the CBD
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Merc1107 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 am

moa999 wrote:Agree if both at a stop it should go green for both. Ideally you have another sensor 50-100m up track (or at stop in the case of some of the CBD stops) which will judge if another is approaching and hold the tram cycle till both are ready.

But traffic light tech is pretty basic.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:34 am

I think the QVB and Town Hall tram stops are way too close to each other - should’ve just been one or the other in my opinion. Each are in minutes walking distance from each other.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:53 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:I think the QVB and Town Hall tram stops are way too close to each other - should’ve just been one or the other in my opinion. Each are in minutes walking distance from each other.
But then youd have Town Hall and Wynyard, so no different to the rail network. Whole point of light rail is to be in between.

And BridgeSt, QVB and Chinatown are in between rail stops.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:09 pm

QVB stop should have been in the next block north. I don't why they chose to put it where it is - maybe to interchange with buses in York St?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby J_Busworth » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:12 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:I think the QVB and Town Hall tram stops are way too close to each other - should’ve just been one or the other in my opinion. Each are in minutes walking distance from each other.


The two stops themselves are quite close but the stops on either side (at Chinatown and Wynyard) are quite a long way away. They serve different distinct patronage generators, with the QVB serving its namesake and the shopping district to its north, whilst Town Hall serves a different portion of the city further to the south around the Cinemas and Town Hall itself. IF you were to merge the stops, the metered stop would be too far south from the main shopping area on Pitt Street and too far north from the Cinema area.

If you really wanted them further apart, perhaps moving the QVB stop further north to just south of King Street between Dymocks and the the Apple Store? That would be a more even spacing, but I'm sure they had a good reason not to do that.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby hornetfig » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:04 pm

eBlog42 wrote:Stop signs are starting to be put put up across the CBD


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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:07 pm

IIRC, the original intention was to have a stop near the cinemas, but the slope was deemed to be unsuitable for wheelchair users. The same reasoning was used for not having a stop outside PoW Hospital. I noticed recently that this is not a problem in Melbourne.

The Kensington and ES Marks stops are also close together. (The Marks stop is actually some distance from the complex)
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:25 pm

Only two months from the start of testing to the opening date for T3 Nice, also using Alston X05

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/l ... m-line-t3/
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:31 am

Facebook post from TfNSW:

Have you noticed more trams testing lately? We’re now testing and commissioning eight trams at a time between the CBD and Randwick. Trams must complete 2,500km of testing ahead of services starting in early December.
Driver training is also in progress with drivers required to complete a minimum amount of driving time in all traffic conditions before moving onto the next phase of training.
Tram testing includes:
• Signalling testing
• Simulating passenger numbers at different speeds
• Testing tram accelerator and brakes
• Testing interface between overhead wires and aesthetic
power supply
• Testing traffic light phases
• Day and night tram testing
• Testing radio and communications systems back to the
Randwick Operational Control Centre
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:55 pm

What are they planning to doing to vigorously attack fare evasion? There are lots and lots of dishonest characters out there. We don't want to emulate that bit of Melbourne.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:49 pm

Presumably RPOs.

Ime a lot of Melbourne's issue is caused by the fare free zone. Particularly if inbound they just risk it, and if you see RPOs waiting at the next stop there is a sudden rush to tag on.
If they required tag on and tag off to get the free fare I'd think evasion would drop.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:13 pm

There is no (compulsory) tag off on Melbourne trams because it is all one zone. I suppose the readers could be easily programmed to recognise when they are in the free zone (driver control?), and such travellers tapped on AND off to get a "credit"?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:37 pm

Doesn't need driver control - that can be done automatically these days.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby lunchbox » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:36 pm

I note that the traffic signals for trams also include a signal for buses (photos, page 155). Presumably the bus signal is for buses travelling along the tram track. I predict a spike in sales of 14-seat Toyota Hi-Aces registered as buses!
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:34 pm

I'm guessing that the same restrictions that apply to the existing bus roadway (STA Buses Only) will apply to these lanes.

There is already shared running on the Randwick branch
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby STMPainter2018 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:56 pm

tonyp wrote:Facebook post from TfNSW:

Have you noticed more trams testing lately? We’re now testing and commissioning eight trams at a time between the CBD and Randwick. Trams must complete 2,500km of testing ahead of services starting in early December.
Driver training is also in progress with drivers required to complete a minimum amount of driving time in all traffic conditions before moving onto the next phase of training.
Tram testing includes:
• Signalling testing
• Simulating passenger numbers at different speeds
• Testing tram accelerator and brakes
• Testing interface between overhead wires and aesthetic
power supply
• Testing traffic light phases
• Day and night tram testing
• Testing radio and communications systems back to the
Randwick Operational Control Centre


I'm hoping the results of the traffic light phases test proves unsatisfactory and they are forced to change lights to give trams top priority. Because video evidence shows it's looking very poor, even on stuff that I recorded just today. It needs fixing otherwise we're gonna have all these online gunzels compla- I mean we're gonna see the CSELR's potential limited....
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