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Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:51 am

Stanchions (under the euphemism of "smart poles") have been erected along George St either side of the APS tracks, thus negating in one fell swoop all the "aesthetic" arguments for ground power. John Cowper has posted an impressive photo on Facebook (link below). It's just mind-boggling. One wit has suggested that when the APS fails, it will now be easy to string up wires overnight to keep the service running.

https://scontent.fsyd4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=5BF3C7F2

Sydney City Council demanded ground power. Sydney City Council is responsible for the new stanchions. Go figure.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:41 am

?

You do realise in areas of underground power and telco services they still have poles for street lighting.

These are no different.

They are also significantly smaller than the poles installed elsewhere to support catenary.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:00 pm

moa999 wrote:?

You do realise in areas of underground power and telco services they still have poles for street lighting.

These are no different.

They are also significantly smaller than the poles installed elsewhere to support catenary.

The point is that they're not much smaller - still very intrusive - and still probably adequate for OHW (the others are probably overspecified) and if they are there in any case, what is the case for not having OHW? If you're not having poles for OHW then you shouldn't have them for lighting either unless they're so thin that they're virtually invisible. It defeats the point of the argument. In France where this wireless running is common, they put the street lighting on the buildings or on very small and discreet street fittings. These poles in Sydney aren't small and discreet, they're like tramway stanchions.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:36 pm

I thought the argument was against wires, rather than poles.

The rather obtrusive wires strung up around Sydney by Optus in the 1990s certainly alienated a lot of folks, and the wiring already up through Moore Park is quite noticeable.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:20 pm

There was always going to be lighting poles, in every render of the wire free street there were lighting poles. It was always an argument against wires, not poles.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:28 pm

mandonov wrote:There was always going to be lighting poles, in every render of the wire free street there were lighting poles. It was always an argument against wires, not poles.

Yes but the renders showed them as very light and ethereal. Stanchions are actually the most visually intrusive aspect of a modern OHW system. The wires themselves are generally almost invisible against the background of general urban clutter. Large parts of most systems have the wires attached to buildings.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:31 pm

What happens when you have detached elitists running the show, who make unqualified decisions based on outdated concepts. It's not 1961.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:32 am

Here is TfNSW's submission to Geographical Names Board about the proposed kiddies' stop name. I'm intrigued to discover that they have only a single reversing track here.

http://data.sydneylightrail.transport.n ... 180726.pdf
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:07 am

Looks like a copy of Melbourne Route 96 at Brunswick East.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:12 am

There appear to be TWO reversing tracks available in that diagram, with complex connections from the platforms rather than a simple scissors x/o
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby jpp42 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:38 pm

Isn't that an odd design having bus platforms in between the light rail platforms? Also there appears to be a fence in the middle of the bus area (which makes sense) - but the result is that the two platforms (for bus or rail) are not well connected at all. It would be okay if one platform was for light rail arrivals and bus departures and the other for light rail departures and bus arrivals - is that the intent given the reversing tracks?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:44 pm

jpp42 wrote:Isn't that an odd design having bus platforms in between the light rail platforms? Also there appears to be a fence in the middle of the bus area (which makes sense) - but the result is that the two platforms (for bus or rail) are not well connected at all. It would be okay if one platform was for light rail arrivals and bus departures and the other for light rail departures and bus arrivals - is that the intent given the reversing tracks?

There are certainly alternative ways of doing it. This design appears to be based on Kelmscott Railway Station/bus interchange in Perth.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby gld59 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:15 pm

jpp42 wrote:It would be okay if one platform was for light rail arrivals and bus departures and the other for light rail departures and bus arrivals

Which is what will happen here.

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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:24 pm

Designed for seamless transfers from the south to/from the light rail.

Design also means it can still operate as an interchange even if they extend the LR to say Maroubra.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:53 pm

jpp42 wrote:Isn't that an odd design having bus platforms in between the light rail platforms? Also there appears to be a fence in the middle of the bus area (which makes sense) - but the result is that the two platforms (for bus or rail) are not well connected at all. It would be okay if one platform was for light rail arrivals and bus departures and the other for light rail departures and bus arrivals - is that the intent given the reversing tracks?

It’s designed for cross platform interchange in the direction of travel. Eastern platforms are for southbound trams and buses, western platforms for northbound.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Frosty » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:15 pm

Honestly expected a different platform interchange with a cross-over at the northern end and passengers having cross the busway to get the tram. An alternative solution I was thinking was something like Cronulla but that would be if there limited space in between carriageways.
Is there any provision though for bus layover at Kingsford & how would buses turnaround if they terminate at Kingsford.

I was thinking with Randwick Terminus I'm for some reason expecting a name change Prince of Wales Hospital though maybe its too long.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:39 pm

Nineways isn't a bus terminus. The EIS for the project indicates Todman Ave as being a terminus mostly so that the buses still serve UNSW. Makes little sense for those south of Kingsford to be forced to interchange to go two stops to the uni.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Frosty » Fri Aug 17, 2018 8:46 pm

It could of allowed for example 343 to use Kingsford Terminus enabling easier connections though EIS does say it being extended to Maroubra but thats another matter. Anzac Pde buses terminate Todman Avenue then go up to road into Rosebery & Zetland to perform CBD services on like the 343,301 & 303.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Piece on 10 News tonight about Parramatta rally and Govt hearings about CBD light rail.

Most interesting point is that late completion payments (of $500k/day/zone) are capped out at $7.5m/zone (or 2wks).

So given how late the project is, there is no incentive to do anything quicker now (eg. Overtime etc).

Thus a total max of $232m for the 31 zones.

Also some press
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/pen ... 4zyhu.html
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:06 pm

Not to mention confirming the capacity situation is actually worse than earlier anticipated where existing buses have more capacity and the trams will be full from day one. NSW government. Making this state great again.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:15 pm

Where does it say that??
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:05 pm

Frosty wrote:It could of allowed for example 343 to use Kingsford Terminus enabling easier connections though EIS does say it being extended to Maroubra but thats another matter. Anzac Pde buses terminate Todman Avenue then go up to road into Rosebery & Zetland to perform CBD services on like the 343,301 & 303.

Terminating the 343 there shouldn't be a problem. Provided a right turn from GArdeners into Anzac is re-instated, It could drop pax there to connect with other services, then head south along Anzac to do a U turn, then come back in at the pick up stop, again making connections.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Where does it say that??

Heard it on the tv.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby rogf24 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:55 pm

boronia wrote:
Frosty wrote:It could of allowed for example 343 to use Kingsford Terminus enabling easier connections though EIS does say it being extended to Maroubra but thats another matter. Anzac Pde buses terminate Todman Avenue then go up to road into Rosebery & Zetland to perform CBD services on like the 343,301 & 303.

Terminating the 343 there shouldn't be a problem. Provided a right turn from GArdeners into Anzac is re-instated, It could drop pax there to connect with other services, then head south along Anzac to do a U turn, then come back in at the pick up stop, again making connections.

It won't be to Maroubra Junction but to Maroubra Beach. It'll basically take over the 395/6 south of Kingsford.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby swtt » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:18 pm

Swift wrote:Not to mention confirming the capacity situation is actually worse than earlier anticipated where existing buses have more capacity and the trams will be full from day one. NSW government. Making this state great again.
Even if it were to be full from Day 1, the LR would've still created extra capacity for buses.

I'm not entirely sure whether during the peaks that the LR was to be the exclusive mode of transport.

Similar to the NW Metro: I can't see ALL M61 services cut out even after the line is extended to the city and Bankstown. The buses will still complement the service especially from Baulkham Hills.

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