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Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: New tram unveiled

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:57 pm

Roderick Smith wrote:The search box isn't finding any earlier report.

Roderick.


Already being discussed in this thread so a new thread is NOT required.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby simonl » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:08 am

burrumbus wrote:With 8 minute frequencies from 7 till 7 that precludes clockface timetabling of the feeder routes,for great connections.Really the feeder routes,or the majority of them, should be extensions of the turn up and go 8 minute frequency.

That first point is a good point that I hadn't thought about. Surely they could increase to every 7.5 minutes to fix this one.

If all bus routes meet every tram that would be a major increase in a number of cases. That increase could indeed promote patronage. I feel it is pretty unlikely to happen that way, you never know though.

I agree with Tonyp re the journey time.The project ticks boxes in terms of its routing,frequency,capacity ,reliabilty and simplicity

Routing? I'm not convinced about avoiding Randwick Junction.

Capacity? No. What sort of modal upgrade project requires buses to run in parallel to handle peak loads?

Although I do agree about frequency, reliability and simplicity.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:38 am

simonl wrote:Routing? I'm not convinced about avoiding Randwick Junction.

Capacity? No. What sort of modal upgrade project requires buses to run in parallel to handle peak loads?


Are you talking about the real Randwick Junction or the new artificially-named one? The line may not serve the northern end of Belmore Rd shops but it will serve the southern end where the retail seems to be concentrating in any case. Apart from this, it's not possible to serve both upper campus of UNSW and the old Randwick Junction with the same line.

The main reason for the supplementary express buses is that by taking the line through Central, it creates a longer journey to the northern end of the CBD which would no longer have a direct PT service. So to head off the political flack from that, they're putting the buses that were originally going to be diverted to Edgecliff or wherever through to Circular Quay. The alternative is to build another tram branch along the old route up Flinders St and Oxford St and somehow I don't think that will happen in the foreseeable future.

The trams have the capacity, it's not that. It's because the government is heading off complaints about a longer journey to the northern CBD.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby simonl » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:24 am

Alison and Bellmore rds

Re: capacity. I feel sure the you are incorrect on the reason for the x buses being retained.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:05 am

The original announcement way back then was, IIRC, that most of the existing X buses would continue to operate via the ED to serve the N/E CBD, and the L94 would divert to Edgecliff.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby tonyp » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:27 am

boronia wrote:The original announcement way back then was, IIRC, that most of the existing X buses would continue to operate via the ED to serve the N/E CBD, and the L94 would divert to Edgecliff.

Are you sure they're not simply going by Flinders and Oxford? To get into the ED they would have to stay on Anzac Pde and couldn't use the busway. Also the ED would bring them out at the extreme NE end of the CBD (Bent St) which wouldn't be any use to most. It would be most useful to serve the entire Elizabeth St corridor north of Liverpool St.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby grog » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:53 am

That is as it is now. They operate on Elizabeth in a southbound direction. (AM peak only - PM peak operate via Oxford etc.)
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby burrumbus » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:07 am

I don't think there would be capacity problems on the current tram proposals.If there is a spike in the projected numbers simply order more trams and increase the frequency.
I think there is a need to provide 2 bus routes from Randwick Junction and Kingsford to serve Flinders St.,Taylor Square,Oxford St,then Elizabeth St to the Quay.I'd make them operate the 8 minute frequency to make the whole system connectable.Not only peak but off peak.There is definately a demand for that .Is there a need for X buses from every terminus this way ?? I'd say no.One of the advantages to this is just in the simplification in the network.Direct ,frequent feeder routes serving a frequent,fast tram.Perhaps put bendies on them to make sure the capacity is there.I think the key to making this system work is to make the whole system seamless.
Re Randwick Junction feeder bus routes the following routes..
316 corridor to Maroubra Junction via South Coogee.
373 corridor to Coogee via Carr St.
-374 corridor to Coogee via Bream St.
-377 corridor to Maroubra Beach .
The only corridor there that wouldn't support an 8 minute frequency would be the 316 corridor.Perhaps 16 minutes on that.
The 400 frequency doesn't need to change,just needs a fleet of consistent bus sizes with the right capacity to be added.Bendis ?? With some leverage put on Eastgardens to resolve the issue there.
The 15 minute corridor along the 314 corridor to Bondi Junction is still adequate.I'd just make this operate Randwick Junction-Bondi Junction.Shorter feeder routes will assist in reliabilty to make sure the connections are right.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:11 am

Anzac Pde X services operate directly along Anzac Pde through Moore Park. Randwick X services have used the bus roadway to Moore Park Rd then across to the ED tunnel entrance.

Inbound services terminate at the stop between Bathurst and Liverpool Sts.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Liamena » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:14 pm

boronia wrote:...until you get to the CBD and have to find somewhere to park.

But we are comparing bus-only with bus/tram travel.


Off-peak passengers are more likely to be annoyed by not getting a seat.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby simonl » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:08 pm

Liamena wrote:
boronia wrote:...until you get to the CBD and have to find somewhere to park.

But we are comparing bus-only with bus/tram travel.


Off-peak passengers are more likely to be annoyed by not getting a seat.

I think both will be annoyed but peak passengers are less likely to drive because of not getting a seat.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:38 pm

This from the original EIS is the only real idea we have of government plans for the bus network. Keep in mind it's 4-5 years old at this point.

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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:10 pm

What will operate to Maroubra Beach after the 396 and 395 are axed?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby mandonov » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:47 pm

Well this old plan from the EIS says the 343.

Also in response to the people wondering about the the express routes purpose, this from the EIS:
 CBD express bus services which operate via the eastern distributor are proposed to be retained to provide a direct journey for customers travelling to destinations in the northern CBD during the peak periods only;
 In the PM peak, CBD Express services are proposed to operate via Elizabeth Street and Oxford Street rather than through the Eastern Distributor (as existing);
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:55 pm

Swift wrote:What will operate to Maroubra Beach after the 396 and 395 are axed?

According to the map, to be replaced by extended 343. But I think this pre-dates the 343 extension to Chatswood?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:15 pm

So you will be able to go from Maroubra Beach to Chatswood without stepping outside?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:05 pm

The EIS doesn't mention the 343 going to Chatswood, but there seems to be a good chance now.

Looks like you could also go from Coogee to Campsie?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:28 pm

These epic bus routes are more of a deal than tbe LR itself!
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Frosty » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:42 pm

I was thinking maybe with the 391 or 392 I would extend them with some the 303 short-workings that start from Kensington & similarly for the 301 short workings that start in Rosebery be combined with an Anzac Pde services. But I must wonder where do some cross-town routes or non CBD routes fit into this like the 370. I must wonder was this bus map done before the 418 was combined with the 357. Though a faster route not via the CBD from USYD to UNSW would be good reducing the strain on the 348 & 370.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby aussieboy » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:05 am

For X9_ buses, there should be new ED on-ramp built at Gardeners Rd. Buses could interchange with LR at Kingsford, then turn left onto Gardeners Rd then right onto the ED. This would save a significant amount of time.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby Swift » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:28 am

Have you driven on SCD in the morning? It's a joke road until 10am.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby boronia » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:50 pm

Swift wrote:Just checked out the 2003 UBD street directory and Bondi Junction is a standard suburb name on the map in capitals, Maroubra Junction is in smaller and lower case print under the suburb name Maroubra, signifying it as a locality. The name Randwick Junction is not on the map at all, so I guess that is why the council thinks it has carte blanche.

Just been doing some follow up on this and found:
https://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/13742/Randwick-Junction-Centre.pdf

Perhaps people should still submit feedback to GNB that this name is not really really appropriate?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby gascoyne » Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:11 pm

Thanks to intercession by Alan Jones, businesses which have been adversely affected by CBD & S-E light rail construction can claim rent relief. They will need to show three years' financials pre-construction and subsequent financials. One wonders what will happen if hundreds of businesses claim tens of thousands each - will the tap be turned off?
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby moa999 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:09 pm

Will they be just as happy to give up a %ge of their higher earnings when the landscaped pedestrian friendly zone is opened.
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Re: Light rail gets the green light: stage 1 UNSW to CBD

Postby molybtek » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:13 pm

moa999 wrote:Will they be just as happy to give up a %ge of their higher earnings when the landscaped pedestrian friendly zone is opened.

Undoubtedly, their landlords will make sure their rents are increased as well...
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