Opal Discussion and Observations

[matthew858]

You pretty much understood me correctly. The maximum fare is only just over $1 more than the lowest fare. If I were to, say, catch a ferry from Cremorne Point and couldn't be bothered waiting in a queue and fumbling with change or my card, I'd be more than happy to just pay my $1 "convenience fee" and tap off with the barrier.

Although the booklet states I can only use them on enabled routes, it's not like the barriers know which ferry I came off, I could have legitimately just forgotten to tap on.

[boxythingy]

You pretty much understood me correctly. The maximum fare is only just over $1 more than the lowest fare. If I were to, say, catch a ferry from Cremorne Point and couldn't be bothered waiting in a queue and fumbling with change or my card, I'd be more than happy to just pay my $1 "convenience fee" and tap off with the barrier.

Although the booklet states I can only use them on enabled routes, it's not like the barriers know which ferry I came off, I could have legitimately just forgotten to tap on.

Oh, you did NOT tap on, but DID tap off (At Circular Quay).
I thought you meant you tapped on, but did not tap off.

So you got charged $5.60+$1= $6.60 rather than $7.00?

[matthew858]

Sorry, phrased that badly. Was posing it as a hypothetical, not something I tried, and my rounding to $1 was for simplicity's sake. My so-called "convenience fee" would be $1.40 for not tapping on but tapping off.

[user13548]

I thought this had all been explained.
The default single fare is $7. This is to allow the hordes from manly to CQ on a summer weekend to not tap off ( but to tap on at manly). If you travel on any route without tapping on, you don't have a "ticket" therefore the normal fines apply for unticked travel. I don't know what the chances of a ticket inspection are like, but probably low. On reaching CQ if you tapped off at an in service opal reader you would be charged $7.

[moa999]

Airvan00,
Yes... apart from the fact that it is impossible to buy a ticket at I believe any wharves apart from CQ and Manly.
Thus you can validly travel from any wharf to CQ, then buy the ticket at the machine at the wharf (note there are machines before the gates for this purpose)

The question posed by matthew858, is if you catch a ferry from Cremorne Point or Mosman (or indeed from Neutral Bay/Kirribilli after you 'forget' to tag on) and then tag off at CQ, will you be let through the gates (unknown but assumed to be yes) and what fare will you be charged (hypothesised to be the $7.00 default fare - equiv to MyFerry2). Final question is whether this default fare will count to weekly/ daily caps (also unknown)

[simonl]

FWIW, if it works like the Brisbane system the answers are:
1. It will let you out of the gates in an untouched state
2. Yes, the default fare is charged
3. This does not count toward the weekly cap.

[boxythingy]

This is a bit silly, you can tap on, on wharf 5. How unsurprising

[R44]

This is a bit silly, you can tap on, on wharf 5. How unsurprising

I'm not sure if that is meant as sarcasm or not... But assuming it is, Why would you be that stupid to touch on where there is no trial being conducted YET.

[moa999]

simonl,
Thanks for the Brisbane info.

boxything,
Take it that is after testing today??
So means you can presently travel CQ (W5) - Manly for presumably the default fare ($7.00) which is the normal fare.
Can't do the reverse as no readers at Manly yet.

Now the only question is whether the default fare is capped by the daily cap as well (eg. CQ-Manly for $2.50 on Sunday; or CQ-Neutral Bay-CQ-Manly for $15 on Mon-Sat). Yes you will need to buy a ticket to get back from Manly.

[moa999]

I'm not sure if that is meant as sarcasm or not... But assuming it is, Why would you be that stupid to touch on where there is no trial being conducted YET.

R44,
It is a trial of the Opal Card.
If there is operational Opal equipment, it is going to get trialled !!

[R44]

boxythingy,
Take it that is after testing today??
So means you can presently travel CQ (W5) - Manly for presumably the default fare ($7.00) which is the normal fare.
Can't do the reverse as no readers at Manly yet.

Now the only question is whether the default fare is capped by the daily cap as well (eg. CQ-Manly for $2.50 on Sunday; or CQ-Neutral Bay-CQ-Manly for $15 on Mon-Sat). Yes you will need to buy a ticket to get back from Manly.

Well, that's OK then...

[boxythingy]

A Mysterious Message appeared!

Checking Balance at a store

Tapping on available at Wharf 5, shall you be happy and wiling to travel to a wharf within 9km's and pay the price of $7.00

Tapping on at Wharf 4

Tapping off at Wharf 2, deducting the remaining amount of $5.60 leaving $0.00 remaining

Not enough money

Poster and Flag

Tapping off at Neutral Bay

Others:
Reverse Tap on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtQV4Qy5pJU
Tap on at Kurraba Point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxDCxbUGtLg
Use only one card error: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUi4RPmYmPo
Tcard: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwsSd8nv6m4
Already tapped on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bslcRH_55to
Some glitch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyL-D7raA2A

[moa999]

Many thanks boxything.
Can I ask
- what sequence got the transfer msg
- what was you route thru the day
- how did you end up on wharf1
Assume you didn't take Manly Ferry (given tagoff)

I have no issues paying $7 for Manly given it is standard fare (even better if it counts to caps)

Boxything is definitely trialling the system !!

[boxythingy]

Here's just a summarised run down of what I did:

Tapped on Wharf 5
Tapped off Wharf 5
-
Tapped on Wharf 4
Tapped off Neutral Bay
-
Checked Balance at Hayes Store near Neutral Bay
Checked Balance at Kurraba Point Store.
-
Tapped on Kurraba Point
Tapped off Wharf 1
-
Tapped on Wharf 1- Transfer message appeared
Tapped on Wharf 4- No balance remaining message.
END

EDIT: One of the wharves I mentioned was Wharf 1. This should be Wharf 2.

I also saw an Opal staff member, although he wasn't doing much...

Lucky last two more videos:
Remember to Tap on/off poster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yksSRANDEkM
How not to tap on/off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0NOC6EEkaY

Also, I don't think Wharf 3 (Manly) Ticket Barriers have Opal readers.

[moa999]

Had some time before the ferry this morning so did a survey of the CQ gates.

Wharf 2 (Taronga, Mosman Bay peak, Sydney Fast)
5/10 gates have readers with stickers on both sides of gate. Notably all on the left (entry side)

Wharf 3 (Manly)
1/6 gates has readers on both sides. No opal stickers

Wharf 4 (Neutral Bay, Easturn Subs, Mosman Bay o/p, Woolwich/Balmain o/p)
6/8 fully operational - gates on either end don't have readers

Wharf 5 (Parramatta River, Darling Harbour / Balmain East, Woolwich/ Balmain p)
6/8 all with stickers

Wharf 6
Not public ferry wharf

---

$2.50 Sunday fare correctly deducted on CQ-Neutral Bay - Balance to $8.70

Try Again use one card only message was generated when trying to Tag On with Opal/Myki combination and Opal/PayPass

Just the green tick and $8.70 balance when tagging on at Kuraba Point (tagged on and off twice)...Then back to Neutral Bay as Kuraba too windy!

Another green tick and $8.70 balance when tagging back on at Neutral Bay (surprised that my auto topup hasn't triggered)

A $0.00 fare and $8.70 balance shown when tagging off at CQ. Still no top-up (which was meant to trigger at $10).

Didn't try the other wharves.

Video compilation on youtube - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vhHJiw_BNc

[boxythingy]

'Already tapped off':

$0.00 deduction today:

[moa999]

Tis a pity that the wesbite isn't up and running.
Would be good to see boxything'stag record over the last couple of days.

[paulbrown3]

Tis a pity that the wesbite isn't up and running.
Would be good to see boxything's tag record over the last couple of days.

And TfNSW Is probably wondering what the f is this person doing. I wonder if a card can be remotely canceled by TfNSW.

[Fleet Lists]

One would think that such a facility would exist and they may even consider using it in this case.

[moa999]

A registered card should be able to be cancelled if lost (for example), much like a credit card.

I for one hope TfNSW thank boxythingy for all his testing.
It is only by pushing the system to its limits, and trying different combinations, that you pick up issues and programming errors, and far better to identify these now.

It is very interesting that Wharf 2 and Wharf 5 also appear to be Opal operable, combined with prior posts of readers already being installed on the Balmain East line... I would hope this means that the trial can be quickly expanded, even before the 2Q Manly commencement.

[boxythingy]

To put it straight to the point:

1. I simply had enough credit, there were readers available to be used. The wharves, with the exception of Circular Quay, especially Neutral Bay and Kurraba Point are within walking distance of each other.

2. Just because I signed up didn't mean they had the give the card to me, after all it's their card.

3. I won't be topping up, until I can use it on a more practical level.

[R44]

2. Just because I signed up didn't mean they had the give the card to me.

An admin may correct me if I am wrong, but as a government subsidy, TfNSW is obliged to obey "Non-Discrimination" laws, therefore point 2 is invalid.

[moa999]

I suspect the "Non-Discrimination" laws don't apply to a trial and indeed could have blocked on the basis of postcode etc...

Indeed by not offering Pensioner, Student etc fares, and only offering Adult tickets, TfNSW is already discriminating.

[boxythingy]

An admin may correct me if I am wrong, but as a government subsidy, TfNSW is obliged to obey "Non-Discrimination" laws, therefore point 2 is invalid.

Off topic, but ERHEM! CityRail announcements. Please do excuse me.

[TheOpalUser]

One would think that such a facility would exist and they may even consider using it in this case.

And TfNSW Is probably wondering what the f is this person doing. I wonder if a card can be remotely canceled by TfNSW.

Yep, the card remains the property of TfNSW at all times, and so could cancel the card and request it's return.

Property of TfNSW: Opal Cards are and remain our property. Subject to section 39, we may inspect, de-activate or take possession of an Opal Card or require its return at our discretion without notice at any time.

http://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/opal/terms-of-use

Tis a pity that the wesbite isn't up and running.
Would be good to see boxything'stag record over the last couple of days.

You can ring up 13OPAL and ask for a transaction history. I'd imagine they'd tell you when/where you tapped on/off, as well as topped up.
At least until the website is up.