Opal Discussion and Observations

[R44]

CityRail announcements.

Have improved in the last few months. Would you like examples? PM me if so.

[Tim]

just got my opal card funny enough it was sent thought Australia post and not toll

[boxythingy]

In the phone call they made to you, did they tell you to expect a courier to drop by between 1pm-4:30pm on Thursday (6th)? Was it dropped into your mail box, or delivered by courier? Not everyone got their's through Toll. I got mine through Capital.

Good to see you eventually got it, Gladys did say "I'm not expecting this to be, glitch free. I'm not expecting this be a smooth sailing from here on in". I'm guessing this also includes the posting of the card out to trial participants too?

Also, reading some interesting comments on this article http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government ... 2azgi.html :

...I had a job interview for a project engineer's position installing the Opal system last year and the interviewers were not impressed when I told them that the London Oyster card, on which the supposedly new Opal card is based, is being replaced by a system that reads your bank card and directly debits your account without having to que up to recharge the Oyster card with more funds...

There seems to be a lot of criticism about this, but isn't direct debit/credit card deduction just an additional method, rather than one which replaces it? Not everyone necessarily has one these days, could be different in the future though. But note moa999's comment earlier of the 'Lingnan Tong', which is an amalgamation of smart cards into one in Southern China.

I still have my T-Card. I took part in the trial of the T-Card on buses from Kingsgrove Depot. In my case it was the 422. I used it once. It was a nightmare because I had to tag on and tag off. The Opal card has the same defective methodology, I see. Tagging on was not too bad, but tagging off is dopey. All of the passengers have to queue up in an already crowded bus, and then wait while every other passenger tags off, before they can get off the bus. The system relies on GPS to determine where the bus is and so calculate the final fare, and deduct it from the card. Not a problem in the suburbs, big problem as the bus moves through the canyons of the city and keeps losing the GPS signal.

And my favourite to last:

Ok everybody, hurry up and wait.

[mrmoopt]

Also, reading some interesting comments on this article http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government ... 2azgi.html :

...I had a job interview for a project engineer's position installing the Opal system last year and the interviewers were not impressed when I told them that the London Oyster card, on which the supposedly new Opal card is based, is being replaced by a system that reads your bank card and directly debits your account without having to que up to recharge the Oyster card with more funds...

It is supplementary only on buses at this stage, Oyster is still the main card accepted. In the future, it will be ITSO, Oyster and EMV cards that can be used within greater London.
However, TfL has stated EMV read/write times will have to be decreased before they will do a network roll out.

[boxythingy]

Worth noting too http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/26416.aspx

An alternative way to pay

It also provides an alternative to Oyster, particularly if:

You don't have enough pay as you go credit on your Oyster card and you have no time to top it up before boarding the bus
You've forgotten your Oyster card

Although similar to Oyster, there are some important differences:

Contactless payment cards can only be used to pay for single bus journeys
Daily price caps will not be applied
You can't add Travelcard or Bus & Tram Pass season tickets to a contactless payment card.
Contactless payment cards are not accepted on the heritage buses which run some journeys on parts of routes 9 and 15
There will be no transfer discount between Bus Feeder routes T31, T32, T33, 130 and 314 and trams

[moa999]

So no caps or weeklies,
basically just letting you buy a single fare.
(NY has done this with PayPass for a while on the Metro, but has an advantage of a single flat fare)

Credit point is generally moot if you are running an Oyster card with auto top-ups.

With these restrictions, I don't see it replacing Oyster.

[mrmoopt]

They wouldn't be able to do capping as there is no way to write data onto card to store a travel product.

[simonl]

They wouldn't be able to do capping as there is no way to write data onto card to store a travel product.

I imagine the same issue prevents it being used on the tube, overland and DLR. Only the flat fare per boarding products are available.

[mrmoopt]

They wouldn't be able to do capping as there is no way to write data onto card to store a travel product.

I imagine the same issue prevents it being used on the tube, overland and DLR. Only the flat fare per boarding products are available.

They have more of a chance to do it on barriers (or any device connected within a WAN) as multiple holdings (journeys) can be reconciled for a rebate to match daily fare caps, much more quickly than from buses.

[matthewg]

Another green tick and $8.70 balance when tagging back on at Neutral Bay (surprised that my auto topup hasn't triggered)

A $0.00 fare and $8.70 balance shown when tagging off at CQ. Still no top-up (which was meant to trigger at $10).

Didn't try the other wharves.

The auto-topup probably isn't a 'live' operation - it will be batch job that runs at regular intervals on the back end systems.

At this stage it wouldn't surprise me if some one doesn't have to run the report manually and eyeball the proposed transactions before submitting them to their bank.

[matthewg]

They wouldn't be able to do capping as there is no way to write data onto card to store a travel product.

They COULD write travel data to the EMV card if they can sort out some arrangement with the banks/EMV consortium. But the EMV security requirements may be too difficult to comply with and/or make the readers too slow. It appears using an EMV card as a way to pay a 'cash fare' isn't fast enough for their liking, with out making the transaction between the reader and card even more complex.

[abesty]

Received this letter re Opal feedback in the mail today:

[moa999]

You certainly CAN put multiple functions on the cards. The difficulty is getting lots of competing interests to work together.

eg. a number of the Universities have combined ID card/ security card/ prepaid card
Sydney Uni with ANZ, Macquarie with Commbank
application
but I suspect the cards are more expensive (more memory needed in the chip) and each application needs its own secure area and memory etc.

[moa999]

abesty,
Thanks for the letter scan.
A few more $11.20 top-ups for us.

[victorwilson]

Are Opal representatives still handing out application forms on the Neutral Bay ferry?

[TheOpalUser]

Are Opal representatives still handing out application forms on the Neutral Bay ferry?

No, the only way to get an Opal card now is to call 13OPAL and request participation in the customer trial.
As you'll be receiving your card after the 7th, it requires a minimum $40 topup, and doesn't have any included credit.

[boronia]

I've just been wondering how Opal would cope with Funday Sunday fares, or is everybody going to get a $2.50 ride, kids or not??

[matthew858]

As has been both stated everywhere and proven here through trials, everyone gets the $2.50 fare

[CB80]

Hope Sydney is prepared for a massive increase in Sunday patronage with the introduction of a Sunday cap for all, it happened in Melbourne when they introduced the Sunday Saver several years back.

[simonl]

Hope Sydney is prepared for a massive increase in Sunday patronage with the introduction of a Sunday cap for all, it happened in Melbourne when they introduced the Sunday Saver several years back.

I am sure they are not.

[moa999]

Why would it be a massive increase...
Not that hard to get a Family Funday ticket as it is.

[gld59]

Depends whether or not you have the parents' consent before borrowing their kids in order to qualify for the ticket.

gld

[captainch]

does it mean a single adult can get the $2.50 fare with out kids......................would bea cheap day rover ticket then!

[iDionz]

You could probably get away with a 2.50 fun day Sunday ATM cause paying more and having less people is kinda stupid..

[Fleet Lists]

Not really - you are not paying more - both are $2.50 - to obtain the family ticket you need to have kids and or other family.

Under Opal for Neutral Bay only at this stage there is a $2.50 cap for single adults on Sundays.

How this is going to work out in the longer term once other modes come into Opal is still to be seen.