Opal Discussion and Observations

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
moa999
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

Defintely is at present...
However given the IPART recommendations published last week, I would not be surprised if the MyMulti1 excludes ferries from Jan-1/ Feb-1 2013.
(recognising that a MyMulti1 is cheaper than both the MyFerry 1 or 2 TravelTen)
inas
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by inas »

moa999 wrote:Defintely is at present...
However given the IPART recommendations published last week, I would not be surprised if the MyMulti1 excludes ferries from Jan-1/ Feb-1 2013.
(recognising that a MyMulti1 is cheaper than both the MyFerry 1 or 2 TravelTen)
I'd be surprised if the Government is about to make that change this close to implementing an integrated system, and they have already announced their response to the IPART recommendations.

I wonder what kind of ferry passengers are actually prepared to pay more to for the privilege of using Opal?
simonl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by simonl »

moa999 wrote:I also think the ferry pricing should have been done differently in the current trial.

Instead of single fares with an 8 journey cap.
– 20% off single fares (equivalent to FerryTen) with a cap of 10 journey's per week.
That's what I thought I said above.
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Fleet Lists
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Fleet Lists »

I agree there is an anomaly.
But would that suggestion mean even 20% for a single trip? I dont think that is what they would want to achieve. Perhaps the 20% should cut in after 5 trips but then a cap of 8 would still be appropriate.
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moa999
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

I can take a single ferry trip each week, taking Ten weeks to use the MyFerry TravelTen, and receiving the effective 20% discount.
Why should I not be able to get the same discount on Opal.

Totally different to the Rail system, where there is no discount for sporadic travel, just the weeklies and other periodicals.

I always saw the discount justified on the basis of
- prepayment - money in the government coffers
- breakage (ie lost cards)
- lower staff usage (manning ticketing points, or queues on buses)

The way the pricing for Opal ferry trial has seemingly been designed (in combination with the MyMulti1 anomaly) means theoretically no-one should use the Opal ferry trial versus existing paper tickets, except perhaps on Sunday.
Last edited by moa999 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
inas
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by inas »

Fleet Lists wrote:I agree there is an anomaly.
We have a current ticketing system that is full of anomalies - even more so after the retrofitting of the new "MyZone" ticketing.

Surely, the issue here is if they can't even get a sensible pricing structure in place for a single ferry route as a trial - how can we hold any hope for the best pricing structure longer term?
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Fleet Lists »

Let us not blame Myzone for all our problems. While it created some new problems it got rid of a lot of anomalies by bringing government and private operators into the one system which was quite an achievement although as I have said before it was NOT the ultimate solution.

The Mymultis though will create a problem in that the Opal card will cover ALL of them eventually and if all the benefits of each individual one are to be given in the full Opal system it may cost the government quite a bit of money which they obviously will not like. Hence this may be the first step if removing some of those benefits - rightly or wrongly.
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simonl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by simonl »

Fleet Lists wrote:I agree there is an anomaly.
But would that suggestion mean even 20% for a single trip? I dont think that is what they would want to achieve. Perhaps the 20% should cut in after 5 trips but then a cap of 8 would still be appropriate.
I say yes. And that is what they should want to achieve. A lower base fare for a given fare revenue is a plus generally, promoting patronage.

There is no good reason to incorporate the complexity you are describing.

We disagree again.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Fleet Lists »

I knew I would get a bite from you on that one. That was the main reason I put it up there.
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simonl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by simonl »

Nice troll.
inas
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by inas »

Fleet Lists wrote: The Mymultis though will create a problem in that the Opal card will cover ALL of them eventually and if all the benefits of each individual one are to be given in the full Opal system it may cost the government quite a bit of money which they obviously will not like.
Obviously in any new ticketing structure there will be some winners and some losers. Where there is an overlap in ticketing systems, then passengers will tend to favour the most beneficial system when they can.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Opal has to be a system where no passenger will end up worse off!

However, it is downright bizarre to implement a ticketing trial where everyone is a loser. If pure economics is at play, then every passenger should refuse to use the Opal system, which leaves you with no trial at all. So either the government had no idea that this was the case - in which case the lack of thought given to the system doesn't bode well - or they knew it was the case but didn't care that the uptake would be limited to passengers who will happily pay more for a ticket that beeps.
matthew858
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by matthew858 »

Well based off those who have signed up for Opal, it seems the only people who have done so are those who won't ever use it beyond one or two test trips but are purely "early adopters". Considering the lack of action by Opal staff to encourage people to sign up for it, and my own observations, you have to know exactly what those people are doing on your ferry and ask for a form for anything to happen. I think the government has only launched Opal this way so they can tell people, "Look, we stuck to our 'late 2012' deadline".
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CityRail
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by CityRail »

MyZone is definitely a trap set up by Kristina Keneally for Barry O'Farrell. MyZone gives extreme discounts to long journeys and the zones are too big that I'm sure what Labor is gambling is they want to see Gladys fix this up by increasing fares and Labor will have a campaign to win back some seats in 2015.

Gladys needs to start another clean sheet fare structure with Opal to make it impossible to compare. Then in 2015, they can wipe Labor out.
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Fleet Lists »

But as a result they may wipe themselves out at an election - comparison is always possible.
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simonl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by simonl »

CityRail wrote:MyZone is definitely a trap set up by Kristina Keneally for Barry O'Farrell. MyZone gives extreme discounts to long journeys and the zones are too big that I'm sure what Labor is gambling is they want to see Gladys fix this up by increasing fares and Labor will have a campaign to win back some seats in 2015..
You can say the same thing for removing the surcharge at Green Square and Mascot.
stupid_girl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by stupid_girl »

boronia wrote:If they issue unregistered cards at this stage of the trials, there will be no way of knowing that the people holding them are genuine ferry travellers, and not just "souvenir hunters". Having user profiles might give a better understanding of passenger travel patterns.
Selling unregistered cards will clearly attract much less "souvenir hunters" then a free registration.

From application forms, they can't ensure that the people participating in the survey had used the ferry!!!
If they save the administration cost for registration and redirect the manpower to do survey onboard ferry, then they can ensure that only genuine ferry travellers are surveyed.
stupid_girl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by stupid_girl »

moa999 wrote:Hardly much information - name, address, contact details (phone, emails)
Enables quick communication with the test base, proactive troubleshooting and error correction.

Got no issues with it. My card would need to be registered anyway as I am quite happy to use auto credit card top up, much like i already have a registered goCard and myki.

Looking forward to something in the mail this week.
No matter how little or how much information was collected, that comes with an administration cost.

When Octopus card started the trial (with only unregistered cards) last century, do you know what the customer base was?
Not just 1 route. It was 3 MTR and 1KCR lines!!!

At that time, they didn't issue any personal Octopus card and didn't allow auto top-up.
It not only saves them administration cost and also allow them to focus on the infrastructure, ie. ensure that passengers know how to tap the card and have correct fare deducted.
Bodysurfer
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Bodysurfer »

stupid_girl wrote:
boronia wrote:If they issue unregistered cards at this stage of the trials, there will be no way of knowing that the people holding them are genuine ferry travellers, and not just "souvenir hunters". Having user profiles might give a better understanding of passenger travel patterns.
Selling unregistered cards will clearly attract much less "souvenir hunters" then a free registration.

From application forms, they can't ensure that the people participating in the survey had used the ferry!!!
If they save the administration cost for registration and redirect the manpower to do survey onboard ferry, then they can ensure that only genuine ferry travellers are surveyed.
The application form will be linked to the card, and the trip details can be recovered from the usage of the card. It's a sensible and thorough way to do it. No doubt they will follow the trial with a survey of the registered users, which again can be linked to the trip data.
simonl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by simonl »

Fleet Lists wrote:Let us not blame Myzone for all our problems. While it created some new problems it got rid of a lot of anomalies by bringing government and private operators into the one system which was quite an achievement although as I have said before it was NOT the ultimate solution..
I think you are being too kind to Myzone. While it did indeed allow multimodal on to privates & the T80, that could have been done at the stroke of a pen once the "net cost" system had been abolished. Just allow appropriately sized Travelpasses to be valid on those routes. Not sure how they prevent the operators overstating their patronage under MyZone either, if you are about to say that.

I do applaud getting rid of separately priced bus/ferry tickets though.

Were you waiting for that comment too?
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Fleet Lists »

No and I dont know what you are referring to when you say "the "net cost" system had been abolished."
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simonl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by simonl »

Fleet Lists wrote:No and I dont know what you are referring to when you say "the "net cost" system had been abolished."
Net cost = operator keeps fares.
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abesty
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by abesty »

Received the Opal Phone call to confirm participation in the trial. The pack is delivered by courier and you have to sign for it when it arrives, otherwise they won't leave it at the address if no one is there to recieve it.
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matthew858
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by matthew858 »

By courier? And we supposedly get 2 free trips with our free card? Geez, someone is spending a lot of money on this trial!
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abesty
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by abesty »

matthew858 wrote:By courier? And we supposedly get 2 free trips with our free card? Geez, someone is spending a lot of money on this trial!
I was told the $11.20 was only enough for a return trip from Circular Quay to Neutral Bay and back.
Also there are certain retail places where you can top up, from December 7.

I was also given the option to give credit card details, so that money could be automatically added when the balance on the card reaches zero - the minimum is $40, going up by $20 increments.
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moa999
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

$11.20 = 2 x $5.60 = current Adult MyFerry1 fare - all of Neutral Bay loop is MyFerry1
Current cost of of MyFerry1 TravelTen is $44.80, so a $40 top-up seems reasonable.

What credit cards do they take ??
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