Fleet Lists wrote:That is not quite true. Back in the days when the Pensioner Excursion ticket could only be used on Government Transport and not private buses, it used to be a three band fare system when the Metropolitan fare was $1, as far as the Central Coast $2.50 and to the extremes of the Cityrail train area (I think) $3.50. Than in one great big jump it was all made $2.50 for the whole area. So mostly up which was quite significant for some pensioners but some down for the very long trips but I think that got hardly used. I cant remember the year that happened.
Remembered that it did rise from $1 to $2.50, but did recall there was a trade-off. Did a bit of searching and it rose from 60 cents to $1 in 1988, then to $1.10 in 2000 with the introduction of the GST and then $2.50 when fares were harmonised in 2005.
Jurassic_Joke wrote:Anyone else think it’s interesting while the weekly cap has seen a significant lowering to $50 a week, they didn’t bring down the daily caps to match it as well?
I just assumed the Government figured the lowering of the cap would be an affordable bribe to mainly marginal electorates.
Last edited by Passenger 57 on Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jurassic_Joke wrote:Anyone else think it’s interesting while the weekly cap has seen a significant lowering to $50 a week, they didn’t bring down the daily caps to match it as well? Up until now weekly cap has been calculated as four daily caps. So if they wanted to keep that formula then the new daily cap could’ve been $12.50 (x4 = $50). Then more people could’ve benefited ... oh wait
Where do you stop that? If you reduced the daily cap to $12.50 the next suggestion would be to reduce individual journey fares to maintain the ratio between individual fares and the daily cap.
Exactly, it wasn't part of a program to lower the overall cost of travel, but a targeted pork barrel at a certain part of the electorate. Even though the headline fare rise is in line with the CPI of 1.9%, the Sunday increase of 10 cents is 3.7%.
Jurassic_Joke wrote:Anyone else think it’s interesting while the weekly cap has seen a significant lowering to $50 a week, they didn’t bring down the daily caps to match it as well? Up until now weekly cap has been calculated as four daily caps. So if they wanted to keep that formula then the new daily cap could’ve been $12.50 (x4 = $50). Then more people could’ve benefited ... oh wait
Where do you stop that? If you reduced the daily cap to $12.50 the next suggestion would be to reduce individual journey fares to maintain the ratio between individual fares and the daily cap.
I mean I’m not complaining, I’ve already said I’m a beneficiary of the new lower weekly cap as I use transport a lot and have already done the maths. I would definitely have stopped it there, as said, there was a specific formula for calculating the weekly cap since Opals inception which isn’t there anymore, but yeah.
The last major overhaul of Opal Fares (Sep 2016) punished frequent travellers while rewarding those who travelled less - now it’s flipped so frequent / long distance commuters get a price cut while occasional travellers get a price rise so I do feel a bit better ever since they took away the free after 8. Which don’t forget was always meant to mirror the periodicals it replaced, and now we have a new weekly price ($50) which is lower than a MyMulti3 weekly ticket ever was
Linto63 wrote:Exactly, it wasn't part of a program to lower the overall cost of travel, but a targeted pork barrel at a certain part of the electorate. Even though the headline fare rise is in line with the CPI of 1.9%, the Sunday increase of 10 cents is 3.7%.
Only the weighted average increase is regulated by the previous IPART review.
If the weekly cap is reduced to $50 for some passengers, obviously there are rooms to increase fare more substantially for other passengers.
Jurassic_Joke wrote:Up until now weekly cap has been calculated as four daily caps.
In the beginning there was no weekly cap.
Between 30 Sep - Jun 29 there was a promotional cap of $52 for Sydney ferries customers who took more than 8 ferry journeys during the Opal week. This was applied as a credit adjustment to the card balances of registered adult Opal card holders during the following week.
That was replaced with a $60 unconditional cap with the 4 x daily cap multiplier we became familiar with. Although, never stated as such, the 4 x multiplier ensures that that those who do not generate sufficient paid or partially paid journeys to meet the 8 journey travel reward, pay no more than those who hit the daily cap each day as regular commuters, i.e. 2 trips per day hitting the daily cap. It addresses a major flaw in the Travel Reward.
The IPART May 2016 report into Opal fares recommended changes to the travel reward to stop Opal gaming as well as generate more revenue partly to offset the impact of the transfer rebate and because of IPART's instruction to increase fare revenue. While IPART of course recommended increases to the daily cap as well as slightly increasing the relative difficulty of hitting it, they did not increase the multiplier of the weekly cap to maximise the revenue increase from previously free trips now charged at 50%. Rather than increase the multiplier IPART lowered it to ~3.6x to benefit regular commuters travelling longer distances who were most effected by IPART;s changes. Of course, the government ignored most of the report, which also had fare decreases, adopting just the changes to the travel reward and the dollar amount of transfer rebate (which IPART had set based on the lowest fare in their proposal) and opted to otherwise freeze Opal fares for the next year.
2017 brough the first increases to the daily and weekly caps.
Shortly after the NW metro opening, the government reduces the weekly cap to ~3.1x the daily cap. This conveniently softens the fare increases for anyone forced off buses (9 bus trips @ $4.80 = $43.20
Linto63 wrote:That's been the case since the Pensioner Excursion Ticket was introduced many moons ago. Governments are always wary of taking on the grey movement, they tend to be reasonably well organised and have time on their hands. Those that don't heed that advice tend to come unstuck, witness Bill Shorten. But look on the brightside, it will probably still be $2.50 when those of us who don't yet have a Gold card become eligible.
That is not quite true. Back in the days when the Pensioner Excursion ticket could only be used on Government Transport and not private buses, it used to be a three band fare system when the Metropolitan fare was $1, as far as the Central Coast $2.50 and to the extremes of the Cityrail train area (I think) $3.50. Than in one great big jump it was all made $2.50 for the whole area. So mostly up which was quite significant for some pensioners but some down for the very long trips but I think that got hardly used. I cant remember the year that happened.
I think this happened before MyZone (2009-2010?). The way I remember it, it was $2.50 for all government transport in the dying days of the ALP. I'm open to correction, but I think you're conflating two changes there. Or at least your comment can be read that way.
In answer to P57's questioning on the Pensioner Excursion Ticket, that is outside the scope of what IPART consider. They aren't really allowed to recommend anything with this one.
The last page of https://www.ipart.nsw.gov.au/files/shar ... l-2019.pdf which lists the things they are seeking feedback on certainly is worth looking at. For instance if different fares are to be set for buses and lightrail, that will change the whole picture anyway. And they are also seeking feedback on whether the $2 transfer rebate should be increased or decreased. No mention of Gold cards as far as I can see.
In 2016 in https://www.ipart.nsw.gov.au/files/shar ... r_2015.pdf they certainly did make a recommendation about the Gold Cards Fares
"We consider that Gold Opal arrangements should be better targeted so that those for whom the cost of travel is a real barrier benefit the most. We consider that Pensioner Concession Card holders and NSW War Widow/er Card holders should continue to be eligible for Gold Opal cards with a lower daily cap than the standard concession daily cap, while other seniors should be eligible for a Concession Opal Card. We also consider that the Gold Opal daily cap levels should be set at 40% of the concession cap, increasing it to $3.60 in 2016-17, and then to $3.80 in 2017-18 and $4.00 in 2018-19, in line with increases in other caps. "
The compression of the relationship between fares and distance has reached the point where the weekly cost for someone travelling 9 km ten times a week is the same as someone travelling 90 km or 150 km.
What's next ? People living at places like Lane Cove or Maroubra paying higher fares than passengers using services which cost far more to provide from Boolaroo or Bomaderry ?
neilrex wrote:well that cap can't last very long, can it ?
The compression of the relationship between fares and distance has reached the point where the weekly cost for someone travelling 9 km ten times a week is the same as someone travelling 90 km or 150 km.
What's next ? People living at places like Lane Cove or Maroubra paying higher fares than passengers using services which cost far more to provide from Boolaroo or Bomaderry ?
Its impossible to have public transport pay for itself it's always going to be subsidised somewhere or by someone. All transport including private vehicles in the future will need to change to distance based calculation. Therefore it won't matter which mode you take or use it will be based on the km's travelled. Regional areas and intercity travel will require a cap,flat rate or minimal increased increments. Urban areas and cities throughout the State and country should have the same rate per km travelled. Its needed because of the loss of revenue from fuel excises due to the transition to EV's. It will also provide a new revenue stream for new modern public transport infrastructure roads and bicycle infrastructure. Pedestrians and Cyclists would not need contribute to a distance based funding model, as walking and cycling is important for overall well being. If distance calculation is embraced air, sea and land travel can be seamless across all modes. (Air and sea travel is calculated on distance based.) The future will allow Opal card users (Next Generation Ticketing) to tap on and off seamlessly across all modes even air travel. This with attached GPS tolling devices on private vehicles will link to an Account Based Transport account which is called Opal at the moment.
verbatim9 wrote:All transport including private vehicles in the future will need to change to distance based calculation.
We already have it for private vehicles through fuel levys; the further you drive, the more petrol you consume, the more tax you pay. Transport authorities around the world have been talking about taxing motorists on distance travelled using GPS for some time, but has it actually been implemented anywhere?
verbatim9 wrote:All transport including private vehicles in the future will need to change to distance based calculation.
We already have it for private vehicles through fuel levys; the further you drive, the more petrol you consume, the more tax you pay. Transport authorities around the world have been talking about taxing motorists on distance travelled using GPS for some time, but has it actually been implemented anywhere?
That's the thing fuel levies will disappear over the next decade because people will move across to EV's. (Electric Vehicles) Hence a replacement will need to be found and the most logical is distance based charges for all modes of travel.
simonl wrote:
In answer to P57's questioning on the Pensioner Excursion Ticket, that is outside the scope of what IPART consider. They aren't really allowed to recommend anything with this one.
It would help if you quoted my question if indeed you are referring to me. IPART did recommend an increase to the Opal Gold card cap at the last review.
From tomorrow (Monday, 29 July) commuters using their credit card or mobile device to ‘tap on and off’ Opal enabled train, light rail, Sydney Metro, and ferry services will receive the same Opal travel benefits as they would using their adult Opal card.
This is an extension to the contactless transport payments trial run by Transport for NSW in partnership with the Commonwealth Bank, Cubic and Mastercard. The trial is also extending to the Sydney bus network in a staged roll-out over the coming months.
Posts and comments made here are my own personal opinions, and not on behalf of my employer.
From tomorrow (Monday, 29 July) commuters using their credit card or mobile device to ‘tap on and off’ Opal enabled train, light rail, Sydney Metro, and ferry services will receive the same Opal travel benefits as they would using their adult Opal card.
But no corresponding announcement on TfNSW's web site or Opal site. Both still say peak fares only and not transfers,