Opal Discussion and Observations

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion
moa999
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

Ridiculously large numbers if Wikipedia figures that AirportLink only put in $200m (or was that equity only, not debt?)
simonl
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by simonl »

moa999 wrote:Ridiculously large numbers if Wikipedia figures that AirportLink only put in $200m (or was that equity only, not debt?)
That was the total contribution I'm pretty sure.

Lucky for the government that the agreement was restated or the consortium would be pocketing the whole amount and not 15% of it.
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jpp42
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by jpp42 »

I noticed the Opal poles at Capital Square were showing Closed - due to the extended track work on the light rail in this section. At Convention where you can change from bus to the trams , you tap on as normal.

Is this kind of thing being done for train track work also, or are people still supposedly expected to tap on at their origin station even if no trains are running?
mandonov
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by mandonov »

No one ever taps on for rail replacement. The readers on the buses at least are never on.
gld59
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by gld59 »

jpp42 wrote:I noticed the Opal poles at Capital Square were showing Closed - due to the extended track work on the light rail in this section. At Convention where you can change from bus to the trams , you tap on as normal.

Is this kind of thing being done for train track work also, or are people still supposedly expected to tap on at their origin station even if no trains are running?
I don't understand the question. In both cases, you tap on and off for the train or tram trip, but don't tap on or off for the bustitution trip (because those Opal readers are switched off).
andy_centralcoast
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by andy_centralcoast »

andy_centralcoast wrote:
jpp42 wrote:Are there any figures on what the final revenue for the government actually is, once the Mascot / Green Square offset and AirportLink 15% profit are taken into account ?
From the 2018 Budget Estimates Hearings:
https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/committees/Pages/budget-estimates.aspx wrote: Ms CATE FAEHRMANN: How much revenue has the government received over the past four years from the station access fee on the Airport Rail Link?
Mr ANDREW CONSTANCE: Over the past 4 years the Government received the total net revenue amount of $197.6 million (FY15-FY18).

Ms CATE FAEHRMANN: What is the projected revenue over the next 4 years?
Mr ANDREW CONSTANCE: The projected revenue would be Commercial in Confidence.

Ms CATE FAEHRMANN: Has the Government undertaken any modelling as to the cost of removing or reducing station access fees for both airport stations?
Mr ANDREW CONSTANCE: Paying the Access Fee at the airport stations would cost the NSW Government in the order of $1.5 billion over the next twelve years.
In 2011 the New South Wales Parliamentary Budget Office did an analysis showing that the Government could buy out the rail line for $300 million.
Updated figures:



The government collected $100 million from the ‘station access fee’ last financial year. This 16 per cent surge in revenue takes the total amount reaped by the government over the past four years to $310 million.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sta ... 50ql1.html
moa999
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

Do we know what they pay to subsidise Mascot/Green Sq
Jurassic_Joke
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

moa999 wrote:Do we know what they pay to subsidise Mascot/Green Sq
Kristina Keneally was somehow able to pull the plug on those two stations (shrug)

Anyways, the amount quoted above on how much revenue the government earns is a pretty big figure and Constance made it clear none of the ACCESS fee will be cut . I personally don’t mind as long that money is going to providing all these extra train and bus services (not coffers to be spent on future harbour dinner cruises and other pretentious things that come with the Libs)
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rogf24
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by rogf24 »

moa999 wrote:Do we know what they pay to subsidise Mascot/Green Sq
$22 million apparently according to the article.
moa999
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

Ok so at $14.
Net revenue = $80m (100-20)

At $0
Net revenue = - $100m (-80-20)
(Assuming $80m as current value for 1.5bn over 12yrs assuming say 5% for price plus traffic inflation)

Breakeven is probably $8-9 with some demand generation.

So Labour proposal probably has about a $600-800m cost over the forward period
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boronia
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by boronia »

Millionth contactless bank card trip taken in Sydney

https://www.railexpress.com.au/milliont ... in-sydney/
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jpp42
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by jpp42 »

gld59 wrote:
jpp42 wrote:I noticed the Opal poles at Capital Square were showing Closed - due to the extended track work on the light rail in this section. At Convention where you can change from bus to the trams , you tap on as normal.

Is this kind of thing being done for train track work also, or are people still supposedly expected to tap on at their origin station even if no trains are running?
I don't understand the question. In both cases, you tap on and off for the train or tram trip, but don't tap on or off for the bustitution trip (because those Opal readers are switched off).
In the past it was implied that you were supposed to tap on to Opal readers (the fixed ones at the rail station) when riding replacement buses. This is of course not really feasible where there are barriers, and it is not at all adhered to, but the Opal readers were previously left on so that you could do so if you wished. I was wondering if that was still the case or if Opal readers now show Closed at stations with no rail service during trackwork.
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Swift
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Swift »

Bustitution time shouldn't mean freebie time. It should be enforced more than normal service time to get tithe message across that you don't bludge your way.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
andy_centralcoast
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by andy_centralcoast »

If gated stations have no rail services running then the gates are normally closed and blocked to prevent access to the platforms. If there’s a partial service the gates are normally left open.
matthewg
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by matthewg »

boronia wrote:Millionth contactless bank card trip taken in Sydney

https://www.railexpress.com.au/milliont ... in-sydney/
And there would be a lot more if they followed the London example and made contactless fares the same as the 'operator card' fares. Sydney is charging contactless users the single cash fare premium without actually incurring the cost of issuing a single trip NFC ticket.

'contactless' transactions now make up a significant portion of London's Oyster transactions, apparently 50% of 'pay as you go' is now contactless (that is people who don't have periodical passes)

Sydney will lag while TfNSW chooses to fleece contactless card users.
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Swift
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Swift »

So basically TNSW ate doing a taxi industry of slugging card users way more than actual processing cost and profiteering.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
moa999
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

matthewg wrote:Sydney is charging contactless users the single cash fare premium without actually incurring the cost of issuing a single trip NFC ticket.
Incorrect.

That changed in late November when trains were activated. It's now the same as a regular adult Opal fare on trains, light rail and ferries.

Still has a few differences such as no transfers or 8 then 50%, and the biggest - no off-peak rail fares, but I suspect that will change when they add buses mid-2019

Try it out (on a Sunday)
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boronia
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by boronia »

And no concessions
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Mike M
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Mike M »

boronia wrote:And no concessions
Using contactless cards for anything other than adult fares would be complicated. London has had contactless for a lot longer than us & they haven't done it yet.
gld59
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by gld59 »

moa999 wrote:Still has a few differences such as no transfers or 8 then 50%, and the biggest - no off-peak rail fares, but I suspect that will change when they add buses mid-2019

Try it out (on a Sunday)
So it has all the hard dollar caps (daily, weekly and Sunday), but none of the discounts along the way.
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boronia
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by boronia »

Swift wrote:So basically TNSW ate doing a taxi industry of slugging card users way more than actual processing cost and profiteering.
I don't think that is a comparison.

Taxis take the final cost and add a surcharge for the card

This contactless is using the same fare as charged for a single Opal ticket from a machine. Maybe there is a margin built into the fare to cover merchant card costs, but so is everything you buy at most shops.
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Nugget
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Nugget »

boronia wrote:
Swift wrote:So basically TNSW ate doing a taxi industry of slugging card users way more than actual processing cost and profiteering.
I don't think that is a comparison.

Taxis take the final cost and add a surcharge for the card

This contactless is using the same fare as charged for a single Opal ticket from a machine. Maybe there is a margin built into the fare to cover merchant card costs, but so is everything you buy at most shops.
All this bleating about no concessions on the contactless is only because NSW don't charge for the Opal card itself. It be like one of the pros and cons of getting an Opal, pay for the card but get the discounts or use your contactless for "free" with no discounts.
moa999
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by moa999 »

Think concessions is simply an RPO issue.

You can't program a credit card to identify itself as a concession card, so you are left to a massive lookup table which undoubtedly would add to transactions times.

Or otherwise have to check the concession status of every contactless card manually, which would be unviable at peak hour at a rail station.

Everyone would just borrow 'grannies credit card'
Jurassic_Joke
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Jurassic_Joke »

Meh. Lately my travel patterns have changed quite a bit so I'm travelling a lot more. Even with the travel reward, I still get gouged all the way down to the weekly cap of $62, yep pretty much every week, so it really does feel like I still don't even get a discount, because I still pay the same weekly max.

Looking forward to when buses are finally added/completing the rollout, then I'll just move on to contactless and tap away without thinking about how much to topup or remaining balance (I will reach the cap any how). Once buses are added, I can see that spelling the permanent end of Opal Single Bus tickets - tourists can just tap their (foreign) cards on the Opal reader then.

The sounds and text feels a bit botched though and still in beta mode - why do trains and then Ferry/lightrail have different sounds for contactless when tapping, is this deliberate? Plus, should've left the text at "Payment card *tick*", which clearly denotes contactless. Its since recently been changed to "Tap Success" - surely you can tap your Opal Card and that's also a success?
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Swift
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Re: Introducing OPAL Card

Post by Swift »

NSW grub-ment bureaucracy have a tradition steeped in making things more complicated to justify their existence, don't you realise?
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
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