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NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby quaidy » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:34 am

By far the biggest perceived benefit of the metro as it will stand for the govt is its favorable cost recovery when it opens, and lack of ongoing drain on the treasury purses.


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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:46 am

quaidy wrote:By far the biggest perceived benefit of the metro as it will stand for the govt is its favorable cost recovery when it opens, and lack of ongoing drain on the treasury purses.

Phrasing it that way makes it sound like it's the only real benefit. The extension of this statement is that it will be highly cost-effective, delivering far greater capacity per dollar spent and faster trips, meaning (apart from greater passenger satisfaction), smaller rolling stock requirement due to faster turnaround.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:18 am

tonyp wrote: (apart from greater passenger satisfaction),.

No proof of this as yet.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby simonl » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:37 am

quaidy wrote:By far the biggest perceived benefit of the metro as it will stand for the govt is its favorable cost recovery when it opens, and lack of ongoing drain on the treasury purses.

Nor of this, BTW.

Also, focusing on Metro takes the focus off reducing the operating cost of Sydney Trains (*sigh*), which will remain the majority of the network.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby flitter » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:55 am

Perhaps it is time to split this thread between the ‘principle’ of metros and future rail plan, and the Sydney Metro build and operation...


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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:25 pm

I think that's about five years too late - and the posters aren't disciplined enough to make it work.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby simonl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:16 pm

Any bets on whether the ECRL shutdown will be delayed until after the election like the George St closure was?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby flitter » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:08 pm

Aren’t they supposed to be finished and open by the election?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby simonl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:32 pm

This website says "first half of 2018" https://www.sydneymetro.info/station/epping-chatswood

It would have to get the earlier part of that target to achieve that. Also, I'm not convinced that would be good for the government because it would show that some of the pain is permanent.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:07 pm

Quoting from that link
From late 2018, buses will replace trains for around seven months between Epping and Chatswood whilst the line is converted to metro operations. When Sydney’s metro services start in the first half of 2019, 15 trains an hour will run in both directions between Epping and Chatswood during the peak – almost four times the number of trains running in the peak direction today. For example, a customer at North Ryde travelling towards Chatswood in the morning peak will see a metro train every four minutes in the peak, compared with the train every 15 minutes they get today.


Seven months from late 2018 would take them past the election date.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Transtopic » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:19 pm

If they were so confident about the success and acceptance of the metro, you'd think they would want it running BEFORE the election. A little touch of doubt perhaps in delaying it? As far as I can recall, it was always planned to open in early 2019 before the election.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Stu » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:59 pm

First half of 2019 = calendar year or financial year?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby simonl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:01 pm

Surely calendar.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Frosty » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:31 pm

Thinking of North West Metro & the state election in 2019 maybe it will probably open after it but surely before the 2019 Federal Election which in a similar time. Who knows they may even want to co-ordinate the SELR opening with the North-West metro opening.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:16 pm

Chatswood to Sydenham construction site preparation at Sydenham.

On the Up side of the railway between St Peters and Sydenham, from the Bedwin Road overbridge back to the stormwater storage, fencing has started to appear around the whole site which will, I think, eventually be the Sydenham storage yard.

The TBMs require a vast stockpile of tunnel lining segments before they start digging. The storage for the concrete has already appeared and work may be on the verge of starting, certainly site preparation is well underway.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby andy_centralcoast » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:46 am

Dick Day is back with a comment/opinion article in today's SMH, linking the upcoming strike to neglect for the current system due to the metro.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/sydney-tr ... .html?btis
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby grog » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:56 am

He doesn’t really blame neglect at all. He blames timetable and infrastructure changes being implemented in anticipation of Sydney Metro Northwest opening, and acknowledges that extending Sydney Metro to the city will solve that part of the problem when it opens. He also complains about Bankstown line conversion not providing enough patronage and suggests that a Metro instead be built to the west, ignoring that they are currently ALSO planning a Metro to the west and that reprioritising from Bankstown to the west would not speed up the delivery timelines due to the planning required. Sydney Metro West is already supposed to open a few years after the Bankstown line conversion opens.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:37 am

He also overlooks that the Bankstown section has the potential to be extended to Liverpool which opens up a whole extra potential.

The biggest mistake being made at the moment is that the Rouse Hill-Bankstown line should go via Sydney University. Waterloo can be readily served by an extension of the Parramatta line to Maroubra Jct and Little Bay. Once the present line is built, it will be difficult without severe dog-legging to align a Parramatta-SE line via Sydney University.

Once again, like everybody else, he can't get outside the square when talking about this "metro" that supposedly doesn't do what metros "normally" do. Everybody needs to go ride the Perth system and have an epiphany. It's the Perth system automated - an "S-Bahn" or suburban railway with higher capacity, speed and efficiency than the outdated suburban system that we have at present, which is designed for a city of 2 million or so rather than one now headed towards 5 million and more. TfNSW too needs to stop thinking about it as a metro and specify the trains with a bit extra maximum speed so that it can do the S-Bahn job with full effectiveness as it extends further into the suburbs.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby simonl » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:28 am

grog wrote:acknowledges that extending Sydney Metro to the city will solve that part of the problem when it opens.

Oh but it doesn't and he doesn't say that it does either (he does say that it resolves the "issues" north of the harbour FWIW; don't verbal him by saying that it resolves all issues). As has been discussed on these pages at length.

Not inclined to comment further.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby grog » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:43 am

I only meant that he acknowledges that extension to the city solves the issues introduced by building Sydney Metro Northwest terminating short of the city in Chatswood.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby simonl » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:31 pm

I don't know why people have gotten so agitated about the line terminating at Chatswood. It's the least of the worries.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:40 pm

Obvious isn't = they dont want to change to services which are close to full - I know we have been through all this before.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby simonl » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:43 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Obvious isn't = they dont want to change to services which are close to full - I know we have been through all this before.

The North Shore line's services aren't close to full (by Sydney Trains' standards) and will be even less so when they lose the upper Northern Line passengers.

However, yes people don't want to change.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:29 pm

There has been a lot of speculation about the Upper Northern Line going via Strathfield but has that been confirmed?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby grog » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:54 pm

If not, then where?
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