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NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:11 pm

Here is a detailed prospectus on the Sydenham-Bankstown section. Good to see that they will be preserving heritage station buildings and that there will be a concourse at Dulwich Hill linking directly to the light rail.

https://www.sydneymetro.info/sites/defa ... erview.pdf
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:04 pm

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/newsro ... rms-travel
Station upgrades, more trains: Sydney Metro transforms travel in South West Sydney

13 Sep 2017

South West Sydney rail customers will be able to start using upgraded stations from 2020, four years ahead of schedule, as the 122-year-old Bankstown Line is transformed to Sydney Metro standards.

Premier Gladys Berejiklian and Minister for Transport and Infrastructure Andrew Constance revealed concept designs for major station upgrades that will make travel easier and faster for customers, cutting weekly travel times by up to an hour.

“Work starts from next year to make big improvements to the stations, including making them fully accessible, with all stations to have level access between the platform and trains,” Ms Berejiklian said.

"Where a station upgrade like a new lift or new station entry can be opened early, we'll deliver that as quickly as possible with these upgrades being opened progressively from 2020. You won't need to wait until trains start running in 2024.”

The NSW Government today also confirmed the Bankstown line upgrade will include:

  • New entrances at upgraded Stations.
  • New public plazas to create open space.
  • Heritage station buildings to be incorporated into modern designs.
  • Train services more than tripled at stations like Dulwich Hill, Hurlstone Park, Canterbury and Wiley Park.
  • A brand new concourse connecting Metro to Light Rail at Dulwich Hill.
  • The first stages on a new active transport corridor to be delivered as part of the project.

“The Bankstown Line was built in the late 19th century for steam trains, now this growing area of Sydney will have a modern 21st century metro with fast, safe and reliable trains, with plenty of room to grow in the future,” Mr Constance said.

“Customers will have a new fully air-conditioned metro train every four minutes in the peak, delivering a new quality of railway service never before seen in Australia.”

The community can now have its say on the Marrickville to Bankstown upgrade with the Environmental Impact Statement open for feedback until 8 November 2017.

As part of the upgrade, South West Sydney customers will have new and direct access to major CBD metro stations and beyond, including Martin Place, Pitt Street, Barangaroo, Victoria Cross in North Sydney, Chatswood and Macquarie Park.

Customers will also see a major boost to train services. On the Bankstown Line there is currently up to eight trains an hour in the peak at major stations along the line – other stations have as few as four an hour in the peak and sometimes just two an hour at nights and weekends.

When Sydney Metro services start in 2024, there will be 15 trains an hour at all stations during the peak, with plenty of room to grow in the future.

To complete major upgrades, Sydney Metro will take advantage of the four annual scheduled maintenance closures of the Bankstown Line to do upgrade work. Additional periodic closures will be scheduled around quieter travel times like nights, weekends and school holidays to minimise impacts.

At all other times the Bankstown Line will remain open with normal Sydney Trains services.

As outlined earlier this year, to convert the Sydenham to Bankstown line to metro services, a closure of between three to six months will be required to do work that can only be done once Sydney Trains has stopped operating on the line. This closure will be just before metro services start in 2024.

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby jpp42 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:37 am

Hopefully they add another light rail track as part of this work at Dulwich Hill!
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby grog » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:20 pm

The faster service of Sydney Metro, its greater range of destinations and the improved Dulwich Hill interchange could see a large increase in 'reverse commuting' for lack of a better term, with users from the developments between Lewisham and Dulwich Hill using the line as a feeder to Sydney Metro.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby lunchbox » Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:04 pm

CENTRAL WALK.
City Council's submission on this project included the need to extend Central Walk to the west in the initial phase, rather than "later".
It also drew attention to the need for a direct connection to the station from the WESTERN side of Chalmers Street, as earlier discussed in this thread.
Council's submission is at -
bit.ly/2eDASwE
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:13 pm

Well it'd be difficult to have it operational in the initial phase seeing as every single platform would then have to be shut to dig it out all at once.

It will be easier to do concurrently with over station development once the metro is operational.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:39 pm

Video and photos in the article

SEPTEMBER 26 2017 - 2:36PM

First metro trains arrive for new $8.3 billion line to Sydney's north west

Matt O'Sullivan

The first train for Sydney's $8.3 billion Metro Northwest metro line has arrived from India and will be tested over the coming months as the start of services loom in 2019.

The laying of the first stretch of track on the "Skytrain", a 4.5-kilometre viaduct and cable-stayed bridge between Rouse Hill and Kellyville in the city's north west, is also under way.

The six carriages of the first metro train have arrived at the Sydney Metro Trains Facility at Rouse Hill and will be prepared for testing over the coming months. Vision: NSW Government.

Assembled in Sri City near Chennai in south-east India, the six carriages of the first driverless metro train to be shipped to Sydney will undergo a final fitout at a new maintenance depot at Rouse Hill.

The fleet built by French manufacturer Alstom for the north west line will eventually boast 22 six-car trains.

Passengers will be able to peer onto the rail track through a window at the front of the single-deck train. Each carriage features three double doors, which will allow the train to be boarded faster.

Transport Minister Andrew Constance said people living in Sydney's north west would get a train every four minutes in the peak in each direction once the line opens in 2019.

"After that, services will extend into the CBD by 2024 – which will have an ultimate capacity of a metro train every two minutes in each direction under the city," he said.

The 36-km Sydney Metro Northwest from Rouse Hill to Chatswood is the first stage of a line that will extend onto the CBD, Sydenham and Bankstown. The government has put the cost of the second stage at between $11.5 billion and $12.5 billion.

The first stage of the project involves the construction of eight new stations, the upgrade of five existing ones, and conversion of the heavy rail line between Epping and Chatswood to metro standards. The latter will require the closure of the existing 13-kilometre line for seven months from late next year.

The state government has also committed to building a metro line from the CBD to Parramatta via the Bays Precinct at Rozelle in the inner west and Olympic Park.

Under its timetable, that new line will be built next decade and be operational in the second half of the 2020s. However, the project is still unfunded.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/first-metro-t ... yost6.html
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby lunchbox » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:59 pm

METRO & ESCALATORS

It appears Transport for NSW ( the “proponent” for all Sydney Metro planning approvals) may be being deceitful regarding the provision of escalators on the proposed Metro stations.

The “Design Guidelines” for the Chatswood to Sydenham section specified that ALL stations were to be equipped with escalators and lifts. Later, Sydenham Station and the adjacent trains facility were the subject of an Application to modify the approval of the Chatswood to Sydenham section.

As we now know, it is intended that Sydenham not be provided with escalators.

As I read the rather complex documentation for these approvals, the Design Guidelines attached to the Sydenham Station Application have had all reference to escalators removed.

I'd be pleased to be shown that I may have misinterpreted the documents.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby grog » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:16 pm

Sydenham wasn't originally in scope for that section of the project and was to be part of the Sydenham to Bankstown conversion. It was changed to allow the section to Sydenham to open sooner, but doesn't change the fact that Sydenham would have never been intended to have escalators.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:28 pm

With those hideous fairings over the buffers, the front of the train is an industrial design disaster. The train looks like some chunk of extruded alien slime. Was that the nightmare the designer had the night before?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby rogf24 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:03 pm

tonyp wrote:With those hideous fairings over the buffers, the front of the train is an industrial design disaster. The train looks like some chunk of extruded alien slime. Was that the nightmare the designer had the night before?


Meet the Frenchman who designed it.

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:16 pm

tonyp wrote:With those hideous fairings over the buffers, the front of the train is an industrial design disaster. The train looks like some chunk of extruded alien slime. Was that the nightmare the designer had the night before?

Maybe he saw the new Star Wars movie while he was in Sydney.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby boronia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:20 pm

He wants it to represent the "soul of Sydney"? Perhaps decorate the interior with brown paper bags?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:57 am

tonyp wrote:With those hideous fairings over the buffers, the front of the train is an industrial design disaster. The train looks like some chunk of extruded alien slime. Was that the nightmare the designer had the night before?


You've only just noticed? the impressions have been around for a few years.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:40 am

Tonymercury wrote:You've only just noticed? the impressions have been around for a few years.

Yes I know, but I always reserve judgement until the real thing comes out because pre-production artwork doesn't necessarily reflect the final outcome. In this case unfortunately it did.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:20 pm

tonyp wrote:Yes I know, but I always reserve judgement until the real thing comes out because pre-production artwork doesn't necessarily reflect the final outcome. In this case unfortunately it did.


Its a pretty standard current Metropolis end I suspect.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby flitter » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:35 pm

Those protrusions above the buffers look perfect for stopping people riding or climbing on them...


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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Liamena » Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:15 am

They persist in claiming that there are currently only trains every 30 minutes off-peak. Is this actually true ?

Whenever I travel on the line to Bankstown, there seems to be a train every 15 minutes.

Improving this to every 10 minutes doesn't seem like much improvement, not for a train without seats.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby flitter » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:28 am

Liamena wrote:Improving this to every 10 minutes doesn't seem like much improvement, not for a train without seats.


Personally I don’t understand the obsession on this forum with seats, I’d rather be travelling (the reason for getting on the train in the first place) rather than waiting, even if I’m standing. Yes, a seat is nice, but it’s not why I’m on the train.


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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:35 am

Getting a seat can be far more productive - I used to be able to do a lot of work on trains while seated but not while standing. Vote Yes for seats.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby molybtek » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:40 am

Fleet Lists wrote:Getting a seat can be far more productive - I used to be able to do a lot of work on trains while seated but not while standing. Vote Yes for seats.

Vote yes for both seats and frequency (and speed)
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby jpp42 » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:26 am

Maybe we need first class cars with seats and regular without? Japan has this on many of their longer distance commuter trains, especially the JR network. You can even upgrade to a first class (“Green car”) on the platform from a machine. So you can decide fairly last minute if you want to cram in the regular car or treat yourself to a seat.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:31 am

At maximum capacity of both systems (8 cars at 30 tph for metro, 8 cars at 20 tph for suburban), 15,000 seats per hour for metro vs 18,000 seats per hour is not that great a difference. On top of this, metro has faster journeys so that seating is less critical as you get to your destination quicker.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Liamena » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:34 am

flitter wrote:
Liamena wrote:Improving this to every 10 minutes doesn't seem like much improvement, not for a train without seats.


Personally I don’t understand the obsession on this forum with seats, I’d rather be travelling (the reason for getting on the train in the first place) rather than waiting, even if I’m standing. Yes, a seat is nice, but it’s not why I’m on the train.


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It's not "an obsession". It is simply reality. The new Bankstown line will have only a third of the seats which it currently does. It may not be that bad if the Liverpool passengers are no longer on those trains, but it is still a big reduction.

Having a train turn up 2 minutes sooner, and then standing on it for more than half an hour, does not look like an appealing proposition to me.

Regular commuters from Punchbowl and Wiley Park will be spending an extra 5 hours a week on their feet, and a lot of people, particularly older people, will find that quite burdensome. The Government expects people to work until they are seventy. Lots of people on this forum say, oh I went to London, stood on the train, it's not that bad. But they were 25 years old, on vacation, and probably only going a few stops. Try commuting more than half an hour on noisy underground metros, every day, after a long day's work. It get pretty annoying, pretty fast.

It's a bit of a sick joke to be boasting about smaller gaps and safer doors by straightening platforms. How many extra people are going to hurt themselves falling over in a lurching train with no seats ?

All those blond women with prams. What alternative universe Bankstown line are these "artists impressionists" tripping out on there ?

And even if you are not a working commuter, and using trains offpeak, you will still be standing, most of the time. No wonder all the people in wheelchairs are beaming.

And you can add to that, the productivity issue. Some people can read standing up, some people can't. Losing 5 hours a week of reading time is a greater disbenefit than saving less than a hour of travelling time, and even that saving is pretty dubious if you look at some of their bogus estimates of time saved. 5 minutes saving to Central, 15 minutes saving to Pitt Street, how does that work ??
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Liamena » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:51 am

tonyp wrote:Here is a detailed prospectus on the Sydenham-Bankstown section. Good to see that they will be preserving heritage station buildings and that there will be a concourse at Dulwich Hill linking directly to the light rail.

https://www.sydneymetro.info/sites/defa ... erview.pdf


There is a two-page timeline in that document, which is quite interesting, mentioning all sorts of interesting things over the 120 year history of the line.

And if you look at that timeline, and think about what isn't there, then you start to wonder ( or at least I started to wonder ), if the person or persons who prepared it were either a bit clueless, or engaging in a cynical exercise in spin or manipulation.

There is plenty of stuff about rebuilding the wooden ticket offices that burned down. Or building the parcel office somewhere.

At least three notable things, which should be in that timeline but aren't:
(a) They mention the line was originally to Belmore, and then extended to Bankstown. But nothing about the extensions beyond Bankstown. When did that happen ?
(b) No mention of building, using, and closing, the Canterbury racecourse branch.
(c) No mention of the Punchbowl depot.

Are there any train sidings ? It's going to be hard getting the line up and running at 5 AM every morning, if the trains have to make a two-hour trip from the back of Rouse Hill first.
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