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NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:37 am

mandonov wrote:
Liamena wrote:Are there any train sidings ? It's going to be hard getting the line up and running at 5 AM every morning, if the trains have to make a two-hour trip from the back of Rouse Hill first.

There will be a depot in Sydenham at the tunnel dive site.

Besides which, even if a train did have to go from Schofields to Bankstown the trip is 1hr 20mins - for 65 km with 29 intermediate stops, obviously faster if it didn't have to stop on a positioning run.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:29 am

tonyp wrote: obviously faster if it didn't have to stop on a positioning run.


As there is supposed to be little staff cost, why a positioning run? Better to run it as a passenger service.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby boronia » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:39 am

Unless they sneak all the positioning runs out in the middle of the night, with the promised "high frequency", it wouldn't take long to get stuck behind a service run. I haven't seen mention of overtaking facilities on this line.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Frosty » Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:03 am

All this talk positioning runs at night why don’t we operate the metro all night on Friday & Saturday nights maybe not along the whole line but between Chatswood & Sydenham. Surely all night operation will be possible with a brand new Metro.

Couldn’t they just store a few trains in the platforms at the Bankstown end for the first trips of the morning. Fair point doesn’t like many overtaking opportunities this could be provided by having an extra platform at certain stations. Where will there be places to terminate Trains short in case of disruption or defective trains.

What wouldn’t be ideal is having to de train customers at a Platform with the train blocking the line. At least 2 mins would be needed to check if train was empty.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:59 am

The two standard metro?

The EIS for Chatswood to the City said that all stations require lifts and escalators - but the EIS for the Bankstown line makes no mention of escalators!
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:06 pm

Does it really matter?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:05 am

mandonov wrote:Does it really matter?


yes
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Liamena » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:50 am

The problem with new overhead bridges is that they are too tall, it is like walking up a four storey building, usually for no good reason. And lifts are too slow and unreliable.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby grog » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:05 am

Tonymercury wrote:The two standard metro?

The EIS for Chatswood to the City said that all stations require lifts and escalators - but the EIS for the Bankstown line makes no mention of escalators!


This isn't unusual - they might not have said it like this but the real standard is that underground stations require escalators and lifts, above ground stations don't. When viewed through this prism the distinction makes perfect sense.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:03 am

I would have thought that the need for escalators is mainly a factor of the volume of traffic that passes through a given station, regardless of whether above ground or underground. In addition, underground stations that are deeper will need escalators. Accessibility is addressed by lifts and ramps, so escalators don't come into that part of the discussion.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby mandonov » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:09 pm

Height relative to the concourse definitely is a major factors to whether a station will have escalators. Having legacy stations, the Bankstown line doesn't really have very high concourses. Compare that to Northwest where almost every station is several metres above or below ground.

Escalators or stairs, it really won't make much of a difference on this section of the line, especially with multiple stations possibly getting second entrances.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby boronia » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:18 pm

How many surface level stations in Sydney currently have escalators?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:13 pm

boronia wrote:How many surface level stations in Sydney currently have escalators?


How many have no steps?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:18 pm

To get a bit serious about this - as someone who has to use the lift, I dislike waiting 10 minutes for the queue of people who MAY NOT HAVE to use the lift but do, to clear, especially if the connecting bus will inevitably have left when I get to the stop.

I would prefer level entry and ramps any time over lifts, but a soon a lifts are installed the demand far exceeds the supply.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:08 pm

Tonymercury wrote:I would prefer level entry and ramps any time over lifts, but a soon a lifts are installed the demand far exceeds the supply.

You'd appreciate the footbridge/subway-free legacy lines in Perth. Basically they're little more than a high-platform tram stop.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby boronia » Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:59 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/bankstown-line-upgrades-for-underpasses-23-bridges-a-construction-nightmare-20171025-gz7pfy.html

Twenty-three road bridges and underpasses in Sydney's west will need to be upgraded or rebuilt to enable the Bankstown rail line to be converted to carry metro trains, posing significant disruption to already congested streets during construction.

The overhaul of the bridges will add to the upheaval on local roads from extra buses required to transport thousands of commuters while a 13.5-kilometre stretch of track between Sydenham and Bankstown is closed for construction.
Bankstown line station upgrades revealed

The western Sydney train line will carry single-deck metro carriages by 2024, but construction will cause months of disruptions.

Residents along the rail corridor have also been warned they will be affected by noise and vibration, some of which will occur at night during the four-year construction period. Marrickville, Dulwich Hill and Bankstown will be among the suburbs worst affected by noise because of the closeness of homes to the line.

Under the latest plans for the project, 18 bridges, five underbridges and three footbridges along the line will require work to bring them up to scratch, much of which will happen at night and during weekends when traffic tends to be lighter.
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The bridge work is deemed necessary to meet "current design standards", operation specifications for the metro railway and changes to the alignment of the rail track at some locations.

It underscores the scale of the undertaking to convert the line for new single-deck metro trains, and comes amid plans for about 35,000 new high-rise dwellings to be built near stations between Sydenham and Bankstown over the next two decades.
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"We're going to have a triple whammy – a high-rise and railway construction nightmare alongside a railway line taken out of service," said Peter Olive from the Sydenham to Bankstown Alliance, which is opposed to the conversion of the rail line.
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Commuters will be forced to catch buses for up to two months each year for five years from 2019 to allow for the rail line's conversion. That is in addition to a shut -down of up to six months towards the end of the construction phase in late 2023.

The work on the bridges will range from construction at weekends and nights for up to eight months, to several days of full or partial closures, according to an assessment of the environmental impact of the project. It includes strengthening, maintenance, protection works and construction of retaining walls.

The bridges and underpasses act as crucial thoroughfares for residents to drive from one side of suburbs to another.

The busiest bridge needing work is the 31-metre King Georges overbridge at Wiley Park, over which almost 97,000 vehicles pass each day. Southbound lanes on the bridge will need to be reduced from four to three lanes for three weeks.

At Bankstown, the 90-metre long Stacey Street overbridge will be reduced from three to two lanes for four weeks, and at weekends and nights over a six-month period. That bridge has daily traffic volumes of 66,000 vehicles.

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The busy Canterbury Road overbridge, near Canterbury Station, will be cut from two to one lanes during weekends and at nights for an eight-month period.

Two bridges on the rail corridor will also need to be completely replaced: the Illawarra Road overbridge at Marrickville, and the Albemarle Street bridge at Dulwich Hill.

Transport Minister Andrew Constance said some level of disruption was unavoidable for a major project such as the construction of a metro railway but the government would "listen to the community and minimise the impacts where possible".

"The end result of some short-term pain will be a congestion-busting metro that will revolutionise public transport in our city," he said.

"The Bankstown Line will remain open during the majority of construction, and our priority is to inconvenience as few customers as possible."

The conversion of the 120-year-old rail corridor is part of the second stage of the $20 billion metro train line from Sydney's north west to Chatswood, the CBD, and on to Sydenham and Bankstown. Upgrades to the 11 stations between Sydenham and Bankstown will each take about two years.

An existing 13-kilometre line between Epping and Chatswood in Sydney's north will also be closed for seven months from late next year to allow for completion of the first stage of the metro rail project known as Sydney Metro Northwest.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby lunchbox » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:22 am

WORRYING IGNORANCE....
The above "Herald" article triggered 7 letters to the editor in today's edition. No doubt many more letters went unpublished. Three of the letters showed appalling ignorance of the facts of the project, despite Sydney Metro having distributed an expensive, wire-bound , 86-page, large-format colour catalogue overviewing the environmental impact statement for the Sydenham to Bankstown Metro. Perhaps it's just human nature to "let fly" about the expected negative impacts of a project on one's lifestyle without needing to have any detailed knowledge about the project itself.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:11 am

Having been effectively forced out of Sydney by its crippling costs into a more affordable (though I must say more pleasant) area, I have nothing but contempt for these entitled whingers sitting in their $million+ properties amidst a cornucopia of transport options, complaining about being provided with even faster, more frequent, more accessible transit. Nimbys are bad at the best of times, but this privileged lot along the Bankstown line would rate amongst the most odious. To make matters worse, they profit from the inevitable rise in the value of their properties as a result of the project.

I suspect there's a "silent majority" there who are actually looking forward to it.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Liamena » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:24 am

This bridge repair project sounds like a scam.

There are millions of people using phones and cars and washing machines and computers and living in houses with plumbing and electrical systems which don't meet current standards.

You do the right thing and call an electrician to replace a defective power point and he tells you that your house is 30 years old and needs re-wiring which will cost $73k which is more than what the whole house even cost to build 30 years ago. You tell him you'll think about it and then go to Bunnings and do it yourself.

Same scam in progress here.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:47 am

tonyp wrote:Having been effectively forced out of Sydney by its crippling costs into a more affordable (though I must say more pleasant) area, I have nothing but contempt for these entitled whingers sitting in their $million+ properties amidst a cornucopia of transport options, complaining about being provided with even faster, more frequent, more accessible transit. Nimbys are bad at the best of times, but this privileged lot along the Bankstown line would rate amongst the most odious. To make matters worse, they profit from the inevitable rise in the value of their properties as a result of the project.


When are you going to tell TonyG that on TDU? :roll:
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:49 am

lunchbox wrote:WORRYING IGNORANCE....
The above "Herald" article triggered 7 letters to the editor in today's edition. No doubt many more letters went unpublished. Three of the letters showed appalling ignorance of the facts of the project, despite Sydney Metro having distributed an expensive, wire-bound , 86-page, large-format colour catalogue overviewing the environmental impact statement for the Sydenham to Bankstown Metro. Perhaps it's just human nature to "let fly" about the expected negative impacts of a project on one's lifestyle without needing to have any detailed knowledge about the project itself.


And its not just with public transport that this happens.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Tue Oct 31, 2017 11:58 am

Tonymercury wrote:
When are you going to tell TonyG that on TDU? :roll:

Ill save this one for ATDB. I left Ecotransit because they were bogged down in obsession with the metro.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby VivalaBuses » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:23 pm

Liamena wrote:This bridge repair project sounds like a scam.

There are millions of people using phones and cars and washing machines and computers and living in houses with plumbing and electrical systems which don't meet current standards.

You do the right thing and call an electrician to replace a defective power point and he tells you that your house is 30 years old and needs re-wiring which will cost $73k which is more than what the whole house even cost to build 30 years ago. You tell him you'll think about it and then go to Bunnings and do it yourself.

Same scam in progress here.

To use your house analogy, think of the Bankstown Line conversion as a knock-down/rebuild of a house. The new house wouldn't be build to the standards of the previous house as that would be illegal and it won't be certified. It would need to be built to the latest standard available. Same idea for a railway - the current bridges no longer meet the standards for a new line so they will need to be modified accordingly.

There is no gotcha scam going on here, the government will have been well advised of this when planning the line.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby lunchbox » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:29 pm

I think there's a good chance that the people complaining about the Bankstown Metro may never have been on a train: they're just whingeing about the disruption to their lives, including, of course, increased traffic congestion.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby moa999 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:31 pm

And given many of these bridge are 100+ years old some probably required substantial maintenance in coming years in any event
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