[Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby gilberations » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:35 am

then how can you not be noticing the truth of what we are saying!

I beleive that with the introduction of the Shuttle, this should encourage the following.

1) 1 tph to Lithgow, meeting up with the bathurst shuttle every 2 hours. this train should run Lithgow, All to Katoomba, Lawson, Springwood, Blaxland, Penrith, Blacktown, Westmead, Parramatta, Strathfield, Central (i) (4 Car Trains)
2) 1 tph to Katoomba, thus making 2 trains per hour through Katoomba, stoping All to Springwood, Blaxland, Glenbrook, Penrith, Blacktown, Westmead, Parramatta, Strathfield, Central (i) (4 Car Trains)
3) 2 tph to Springwood, as an extension of the Western Line Emu Plains Terminators, thus 4tph thru Springwood. Stopping All to Seven Hills, Westmead, Parramatta, Granville, Lidcombe, Strathfield, Burwood, Redfern, Central, Town Hall, Milsons Point, North Sydney All to Hornsby/Berowra (8 Car Trains)


This creates Local and Express services through the mountains, similarly to South Coast and Newcastle/Central Coast services.

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Last edited by gilberations on Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby simonl » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:49 am

^ A far more appropriate solution.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby mackinenator » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:07 pm

simonl wrote:Why would there be 4 car services on weekdays? Or do you mean the weekend service which was reduced to 4 cars to remove the repeaters?

Every train outside of the peak hours is a 4 car train... Has been since last Oct, as part of the getting rid of 6 car trains.
I particularly recommend you go to Parramatta and try and catch the 11.30am, 12.30pm & 1.30pm trains to the Mountains. Let me know if you can find a seat straight away. I'd like to know where I have to look for it.

gilberations wrote:OMG! I live in lithgow, and i can tell you it is always painful getting a train from central at the moment as 9 time out of 10 i have to wait till sometimes springwood, to get a seat, penrith if im lucky. this is due to 8 car trains going to mt vic and 4 car trains going the distance. also, people going to places like blacktown, parramatta and penrith catching the interurban for a quicker ride home.

Half the Peak Hour Trains go to Lithgow.
When I travel from Parramatta to Springwood in peak hour, the most I usually need to wait to get a seat is Emu Plains. By then you can easily find a seat.

simonl wrote:I've been to Sydney Terminal on numerous occassions, and I have never actually seen anyone left behind because they can't get on. I've never even seen a crush loaded interurban. I've seen numerous crush loaded suburbans though, and even people not being able to get on. The Cityrail statistics do not support the argument that interurban commuters cannot get on either.

I call crap!

Go out to Parramatta, by the time you got Strathfield & Parramatta people on, it can get pretty full.

simonl wrote:You do not know how many Parramatta bound people would use 17:23 ex-Central(i), for example.

Atleast 10 came out of one door of one carriage I was trying to get on the other day...

gilberations wrote:I beleive that with the introduction of the Shuttle, this should encourage the following.

1) 1 tph to Lithgow, meeting up with the bathurst shuttle every 2 hours. this train should run Lithgow, All to Katoomba, Lawson, Springwood, Blaxland, Penrith, Blacktown, Westmead, Parramatta, Strathfield, Central (i)
2) 1 tph to Katoomba, thus making 2 trains per hour through Katoomba, stoping All to Springwood, Blaxland, Glenbrook, Penrith, Blacktown, Westmead, Parramatta, Strathfield, Central (i)
3) 2 tph to Springwood, as an extension of the Western Line Emu Plains Terminators, thus 4tph thru Springwood. Stopping All to Seven Hills, Westmead, Parramatta, Granville, Lidcombe, Strathfield, Burwood, Redfern, Central, Town Hall, Milsons Point, North Sydney All to Hornsby/Berowra

The Bathurst shuttle will never ran that frequently. Not even the buses run that frequently. And where is the train supposedly doing the shuttle coming from?
Thats a massive increase in frequency & train requirements. Considering the V Sets are being withdrawn & Oscars go as far as Springwood, What do you expect to run your services? I think getting to the goal of a train to Lithgow every 2 hours would be much easier & likely to be acheived.

& While I'm here & we're OT
My Honest belief is that No Mountains train Ex Central after 3pm should stop at Westmead or Blacktown. & That those between 4 & 6pm should not set down at Penrith.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby gilberations » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:12 pm

the idea of the bathurst shuttle is to run that frequently. all cityrail rollingstock can go as far as springwood, and has done. also the blue mountains line is being rezoned to allow medium rollingstock through later this year, so in theory, all cityrail rolling stock will be able to go as far as katoomba
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby mackinenator » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:17 pm

It may well be the idea, but the only thing thats been announced for sure is a Bathurst-Central Express & Return.
Hadn't heard about that, have you got any further details on that re-zoning? I look forward to getting more Oscars up here :D
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby 745-Castle Hill » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:21 pm

How about this set up:

1) Bathurst - Lithgow Shuttle
2) Lithgow all to Katoomba - Lawson - Springwood - Penrith
3) Katoomba all to Springwood - Blaxland -Glenbrook - Emu Plains - Penrith - Blacktown - Westmead - Parramatta - Granville - Strathfield - Syd Terminal
4) Springwood all to Penrith - St Marys - Mt Druitt - Blacktown - Seven Hills - Westmead - Parramatta - Granville - Lidcombe - Strathfield - Redfern all to North Sydney
With 2) connecting with 3). With this arrangement we can have a train from Penrith - City every 15 minutes.

Now heres controversy:
Then we can have H sets on all trains from Central to the mountains.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby gilberations » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:22 pm

mackinenator wrote:It may well be the idea, but the only thing thats been announced for sure is a Bathurst-Central Express & Return.

it has been anounced that following the trial, a shuttle will be put in place

Hadn't heard about that, have you got any further details on that re-zoning? I look forward to getting more Oscars up here :D

its something that has been discused on railpage. for the past 2/3 years the frequent BML shutdowns have been to eliminate the width restrictions, with the lawson redirection being the last main obsticle.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby gilberations » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:24 pm

745-Castle Hill wrote: With this arrangement we can have a train from Penrith - City every 15 minutes.



my arangement has 6tph from penrith
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby simonl » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:26 pm

mackinenator wrote:I particularly recommend you go to Parramatta and try and catch the 11.30am, 12.30pm & 1.30pm trains to the Mountains.

Something which would NOT be helped by having 'u' stops at Parramatta. Penrith and Blacktown, perhaps. But I say just run a train every half an hour to Katoomba, or at least Springwood. Hourly services? What a joke.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby 745-Castle Hill » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:32 pm

gilberations wrote:my arangement has 6tph from penrith


But do we have th rolling stock?

Ps I am talking about off peak/weekends
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby gilberations » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:35 pm

745-Castle Hill wrote:
But do we have th rolling stock?

Ps I am talking about off peak/weekends



if we hold back on the v set retirement, and order more H sets
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby simonl » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:07 pm

mackinenator wrote:
simonl wrote:You do not know how many Parramatta bound people would use 17:23 ex-Central(i), for example.

Atleast 10 came out of one door of one carriage I was trying to get on the other day...

How many people got on through the same door?
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:09 pm

simonl wrote:
Fleet Lists wrote:But neither do you. If so provide the necessary statistics. Of course they do not exist. So available statistics do not tell the full story.

I feel that the available statistics, which I referred to in the other thread, infer that there would indeed be no problem with removing the 'u' from Parramatta from the service in question, based on best guess. FWIW.
]
I love that last bit "best guess" - so again NOT facts.

i dont like to rely on best guesses as they could be totally wrong.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby simonl » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:13 pm

ALL service plans are based on best guesses. I don't see your point.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:42 pm

The point is that you stated all your posts were based on FACTS. Best guesses are NOT facts. Different people will come up with different best guesses.
That is one of the reasons I have refrained from making statements as to what would be the best way to go as I do not have all facts - however you want to take best guesses as facts to suit your arguments.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby simonl » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:54 pm

I did not say that everything I have ever posted to ATDB was a fact. Some of it is clearly opinion.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby Newcastle Flyer » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:20 pm

simonl wrote:I've never even seen a crush loaded interurban. < snip >
I call crap!
If you call it crap & claim that you have never seen an overcrowded interurban, then you need your eyes checked. A few weekends ago, hardly any seats left - from Hamilton going to Sydney, crowded at Gosford, and almost no standing room from Woy Woy. - And that is when their was NOT a special event in Sydney.

The trouble is that interurbans are being used as "suburban" services from within the Sydney suburban area.

Simonl, they are called interurbans (oh "sorry" RailCorp, I mean intercities[1]) for a reason.

But anyway, isn't this about the Bathurst - Sydney service?

1. This is a train service that could be correctly classed as an intercity run.

If they are going to have this train service, then the state government should consider re-opening Wallerwang Station.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:29 pm

What is the relevance of Wallerawang? If anything it would be another stop to slow the service down.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby BroadGauge » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:22 pm

gilberations wrote:then how can you not be noticing the truth of what we are saying!

I beleive that with the introduction of the Shuttle, this should encourage the following.

1) 1 tph to Lithgow, meeting up with the bathurst shuttle every 2 hours. this train should run Lithgow, All to Katoomba, Lawson, Springwood, Blaxland, Penrith, Blacktown, Westmead, Parramatta, Strathfield, Central (i) (4 Car Trains)
2) 1 tph to Katoomba, thus making 2 trains per hour through Katoomba, stoping All to Springwood, Blaxland, Glenbrook, Penrith, Blacktown, Westmead, Parramatta, Strathfield, Central (i) (4 Car Trains)
3) 2 tph to Springwood, as an extension of the Western Line Emu Plains Terminators, thus 4tph thru Springwood. Stopping All to Seven Hills, Westmead, Parramatta, Granville, Lidcombe, Strathfield, Burwood, Redfern, Central, Town Hall, Milsons Point, North Sydney All to Hornsby/Berowra (8 Car Trains)

This creates Local and Express services through the mountains, similarly to South Coast and Newcastle/Central Coast services.

There's only 75,000 people who live in the City of Blue Mountains, plus another 20,000 in the City of Lithgow.

For comparison, the Wyong Shire alone has 149,000 people, contributing to the over 500,000 people in the catchment for the Newcastle & Central Coast Line, hence why that line has far more train services.

Somehow I think your idea of running 4 trains per hour to Springwood in the middle of the working day is a bit extravagant. 30 minute services to Katoomba would be about the best you could hope for in the medium term, with every train stopping all stations. I think an improved service to Wollongong City & Kiama would still be a higher priority though.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby gilberations » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:22 pm

The town of Wang has 4000 people in it, and I have it on good authority it will be reopened
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby Mr Enthused » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:27 pm

Newcastle Flyer wrote:
simonl wrote:I've never even seen a crush loaded interurban. < snip >
I call crap!
If you call it crap & claim that you have never seen an overcrowded interurban, then you need your eyes checked. A few weekends ago, hardly any seats left - from Hamilton going to Sydney, crowded at Gosford, and almost no standing room from Woy Woy. - And that is when their was NOT a special event in Sydney.

The trouble is that interurbans are being used as "suburban" services from within the Sydney suburban area.

Simonl, they are called interurbans (oh "sorry" RailCorp, I mean intercities[1]) for a reason.

But anyway, isn't this about the Bathurst - Sydney service?

1. This is a train service that could be correctly classed as an intercity run.

If they are going to have this train service, then the state government should consider re-opening Wallerwang Station.


simonl comes across as more of an armchair planner sometimes...
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:31 pm

Only sometimes?
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby tonyp » Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:23 pm

Don't all planners sit in armchairs - at those endless staff and committee meetings? (That's why nothing ever gets done!)

simonl ever seen those photos of trains in India? Well hop on a peak hour OSCAR on the south coast! Very hard going to the toilet when there are 5 people standing in it.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby WithoutAUsername » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:13 pm

4 trains per hour to Springwood, what a joke. Springwood could not sustain 4 trains per hour all day every day. The hourly service during the day is pretty quiet as is, most passengers belong to one of three groups, OAPs, tourists and ferals.
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Re: [Western Advocate] Bathurst to Sydney rail service

Postby gilberations » Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:23 pm

WithoutAUsername wrote:4 trains per hour to Springwood, what a joke. Springwood could not sustain 4 trains per hour all day every day. The hourly service during the day is pretty quiet as is, most passengers belong to one of three groups, OAPs, tourists and ferals.

Wow another person too afraid to leave their computer and take a look. I have done that today, and let me tell you, at 230 the train was full
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