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Homebush Bay Bridge

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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby simonl » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:11 pm

You would think the Mayor wouldn't announce something like this without knowing it to be true. If we had reasonable local government that is.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby boronia » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:40 pm

Yes, all politicians are knowledgeable and honest.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby mandonov » Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:01 pm

Confirmation of which route will extend over the bridge, located on the Rhodes Wharf RMS page.

Once the Homebush Bay Bridge is complete, the current 526 bus route to Sydney Olympic Park Wharf will be extended to link with Rhodes Train Station and Rhodes Shopping Centre. This route is anticipated to start operating in June 2016.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:09 pm

Could we have a reference for the quote please?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby swtt » Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:40 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Could we have a reference for the quote please?


http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/projects/sydn ... index.html

Sources close to the residential project inform me that the extension of route 526, plus another yet-to-be-numbered route (presumably across A3 over to Ryde), has been paid for by Bilbergia to operate for 20 years, not dissimilar to how the the tenants of the large businesses located in SOP funded route 533 to operate into Olympic Park.

Admittedly, the wharf is a fanciful idea. Nobody in the local community really ***needs*** the wharf. The frequencies aren't flash, and are really only useful for transporting some niche tourist market. Even if Rhodes residents worked at Parramatta, it would still be far quicker to walk to Rhodes, change at Strathfield etc than to take this far shorter journey on the water.

What the community does need are either

* Train: Rhodes short workings to Central
* Bus: far better 458 service (than the token half hourly/Sunday hourly) service
* Road: Either bus priority for M41 (not happening in a hurry) and/or something done to fix route A3 at Flemington (Arthur St) & Top Ryde junction. (Not happening in a hurry either :()
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby swtt » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:12 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Could we have a reference for the quote please?


Another two references to confirm it'll be 533 and 526 altered to serve Wentworth Point:

http://www.homebushbaybridge.com.au/fil ... _final.pdf

http://www.canadabay.nsw.gov.au/verve/_ ... Agenda.pdf (Logical p.16 of PDF)

This should take effect 22/5/2016.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby swtt » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:35 pm

This actually was made public in a local newsletter last month, which we somehow didn't receive:

http://www.canadabay.nsw.gov.au/verve/_ ... 16_web.pdf
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:30 pm

Route 526 will definitely be extended to Rhodes shopping centre. There will also be a loop service operating between Newington shops and Rhodes shopping centre, most probably numbered as 529. I'm wondering if the 526 will operate to Rhodes in the late evening or if it will be cut back to be short working? I'm also speculating the purpose of a loop service, possibly the 526 may become busy and the loop service will free up seats on the 526 and also if the 526 is late (especially on Saturdays due to DFO), the loop service will create a eradicate reliability issues between Newington & Rhodes.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby rogf24 » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:37 pm

Stu wrote:Route 526 will definitely be extended to Rhodes shopping centre. There will also be a loop service operating between Newington shops and Rhodes shopping centre, most probably numbered as 529. I'm wondering if the 526 will operate to Rhodes in the late evening or if it will be cut back to be short working? I'm also speculating the purpose of a loop service, possibly the 526 may become busy and the loop service will free up seats on the 526 and also if the 526 is late (especially on Saturdays due to DFO), the loop service will create a eradicate reliability issues between Newington & Rhodes.


Kind of makes me wonder why they didn't extend the 540 to Rhodes instead and maybe have some short workings to Newington.

They probably should have also joined up the new 533 with 401 especially if it is full time.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby swtt » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:45 pm

Stu wrote:Route 526 will definitely be extended to Rhodes shopping centre. There will also be a loop service operating between Newington shops and Rhodes shopping centre, most probably numbered as 529. I'm wondering if the 526 will operate to Rhodes in the late evening or if it will be cut back to be short working? I'm also speculating the purpose of a loop service, possibly the 526 may become busy and the loop service will free up seats on the 526 and also if the 526 is late (especially on Saturdays due to DFO), the loop service will create a eradicate reliability issues between Newington & Rhodes.


Thanks Stu. Do you know anything about the 533, and whether it would operate full time to/from Chatswood <-> SOP? If so, will 534 be cut?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:07 am

^ I'm uncertain about the 533 & 534. Hopefully there is a media release soon with more info.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby 745-Castle Hill » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:36 am

Stu wrote:Route 526 will definitely be extended to Rhodes shopping centre. There will also be a loop service operating between Newington shops and Rhodes shopping centre, most probably numbered as 529. I'm wondering if the 526 will operate to Rhodes in the late evening or if it will be cut back to be short working? I'm also speculating the purpose of a loop service, possibly the 526 may become busy and the loop service will free up seats on the 526 and also if the 526 is late (especially on Saturdays due to DFO), the loop service will create a eradicate reliability issues between Newington & Rhodes.


What's the source for this? All publications point to only Routes 526 & 533 operating over the bridge. And why wouldn't they just have this 529 as short workings of route 526? Unless it's to travel via a different route, maybe?
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:30 pm

^ I have been informed that the loop service will begin next month and will only be a temporary service, operating for approximately two weeks. This service must be a trial of some sort.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Frosty » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:53 pm

It will vitally important that the new buses that use the Homebush Bay Bridge integrate well with the trains particularly on the weekends when trains are only half hourly.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:26 pm

Extract 1.

Environmental Report.
Volume II - Appendix G2.
Appendix A
Transport consultation meeting
minutes.


https://majorprojects.affinitylive.com/public/351ef202b706847cca6759863f6bbcd1/Volume%20II%20%20-%20Appendix%20G2.pdf

http://majorprojects.planning.nsw.gov.au/index.pl?action=view_job&job_id=4331

Meeting.
23 02 2011
Traffic Management and Access
Workshop - SOPA and Transport NSW.
(STA unable to attend)

1.3 Transport growth forecasts:
- Forecast population in 25 years: Rhodes 14,000 residents; Wentworth Point, 10,000 – 30,000 residents; SOPA: 5,000 – 20,000 residents.
- The Homebush Bay area presents a new medium – high density area for the Sydney Metropolitan Region to meet the Sydney Metropolitan Strategy targets.
- Proposed bridge movements relate to the expected level of travel behaviour change from private vehicle to public transport use, walking and cycling
(low, medium, high).
- The bridge seeks to provide a proactive approach to travel behaviour change from the development at Wentworth Point.

1.4 Future bus service:
- Capacity per direction depends on nature of the bus: Shuttle bus capacity 20 pax/bus; Larger bus capacity 40 pax/bus.
- Regional buses are assumed not to use the bridge, only local buses at early stages.
- It is acknowledged that the some among the community reference group (CRG) resists regional buses on the bridge. CRG feedback should be considered within
context of future demand.
- The bridge needs to be seen as a 100 year piece of infrastructure, for the first 5 –10 years it may be an underutilised piece of infrastructure however the bridge
will establish a key connection between the two developing communities.
- In the long term, may consider integrating the two communities with regional bus links.
- There will be broad planning for light rail integrated into the design of the bridge.
- CRG has flagged initial concerns over shuttle bus ticketing.
- Regional event buses would not use the bridge, however SOPA may assess the need for local event buses serving Wentworth Point and Rhodes to use the bridge in
the future.
- Consideration for event bus movements is not within the scope of the Part 3A Environmental Assessment, if required in the long term, SOPA will lodge a Part 3A
modification.

1.8 Proposed bridge bus movements.
- Preliminary bus routes from current option from Homebush Bay Bridge website.
- Shuttle bus service is likened to the Manly Shuttle service costing $500,000/year to run, every 10 minutes with a gold coin donation, noting that such an
operation would need to be authorised and accredited as per the Passenger Transport Act 1990.
- Linking Newington has not been considered at this stage; expanding the bus route could limit the ability to provide a high frequency service.
- Rather than extending the shuttle bus route to cover Newington, Concord Hospital etc, transfers between shuttle and STA routes could be more likely. Other
options include shuttle bus loop services to Newington and Concord Hospital that would interchange with the Wentworth Point to Rhodes shuttle.
- The suburb of Newington has existing STA buses that run on a 15 minute frequency. The Wentworth Point community likens their community to Newington and
expect a similar frequency transport service.
- Some Wentworth Point residents fear the provision of a shuttle bus service as a funded service through body corporate could inhibit the provision of STA buses if
providing a good/ viable service.
- Bus bridge movements could attract other people to Wentworth Point (not residents) to use the bridge and bus services, may present parking issues for Wentworth
Point: there will be limited on street parking at Wentworth Point.
Last edited by Stu on Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:31 pm

Extract 2.

Environmental Report.
Volume II - Appendix G2.
Appendix A
Transport consultation meeting
minutes.


https://majorprojects.affinitylive.com/public/351ef202b706847cca6759863f6bbcd1/Volume%20II%20%20-%20Appendix%20G2.pdf

http://majorprojects.planning.nsw.gov.au/index.pl?action=view_job&job_id=4331

Meeting
29 03 2011
Consultation with STA.

STA comments:
• RR indicated STA would be cautious about a shuttle service. The route must accommodate a medium rigid (12.5m) bus as a minimum for STA to consider it.
• STA does not operate shuttle bus services.
• Bridge design concept should be based on a ‗standard‘ 12.5m length bus.
• STA buses may not be able to follow the presented proposed shuttle route as some are local roads and are unable to accommodate full size buses.
• shuttle buses are not a long term solution – they won‘t service such a large community sufficiently.
• Designing a bus route should be a long term route that can be accessed by both shuttle bus and STA buses.
• Desirable lane width for the two bus lanes would be 7.0m kerb to kerb. Absolute minimum of 6.5m kerb to kerb.
• Threshold of any pedestrian crossing (ie. shared zone) not to be higher than 75mm, with 1.5m ramps either side.
• STA Typical bus stop requires 30m length with no indent.
• There is no major issue with ‗high speed‘ cycle commuters sharing bus lanes with buses.
• Redirecting regional buses through the bridge would result in longer journey times over existing Homebush Bay Drive.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:35 pm

Extract 3.

Environmental Report.
Volume II - Appendix G2.
Appendix A
Transport consultation meeting
minutes.


Meeting
03 03 2011
Traffic Management and Access
Workshop – Canada Bay Council.

https://majorprojects.affinitylive.com/public/351ef202b706847cca6759863f6bbcd1/Volume%20II%20%20-%20Appendix%20G2.pdf

http://majorprojects.planning.nsw.gov.au/index.pl?action=view_job&job_id=4331

1.15 Future bus service:
- Capacity per direction depends on nature of the bus: Shuttle bus capacity 20 pax/bus; Larger bus capacity 40 pax/bus.
- Details for the shuttle bus are uncertain at this stage.
- Council supports the idea of the shuttle bus and understands that shuttle bus service is in its initial phases of development however expresses concerns over the costing,
long term for the bus service.
- RTA seeks to design the bridge to allow for STA size buses.
- The provision of a bus service would be important to provide from day 1 of the bridge to enable good travel habits.
- Private shuttle bus may be considered by the landowners initially, however a long term service should be considered as supported by public service.
- It is acknowledged that the community reference group resists regional buses on the bridge. CRG feedback should be considered within context of future demand.
- There would be broad planning for light rail integrated into the design of the bridge.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:39 pm

Extract 4.

Environmental Report.
Volume II - Appendix G2.
Appendix A
Transport consultation meeting
minutes.


https://majorprojects.affinitylive.com/public/351ef202b706847cca6759863f6bbcd1/Volume%20II%20%20-%20Appendix%20G2.pdf

http://majorprojects.planning.nsw.gov.au/index.pl?action=view_job&job_id=4331

Meeting.
03 03 2011.
Traffic Management and Access
Workshop – Auburn Council.

1.25 Future bus service:
- Capacity per direction depends on nature of the bus: Shuttle buscapacity 20 pax/bus; Larger bus capacity 40 pax/bus.
- Details for the shuttle bus are uncertain at this stage.
- RTA seeks to design the bridge to allow for STA size buses.
- The provision of a bus service would be important to provide from day 1 of the bridge to enable good travel habits.
- Private shuttle bus may be considered by the landowners initially, however a long term service should be considered assupported by public service.
- It is acknowledged that the community reference group resists regional buses on the bridge. CRG feedback should be considered within context of future demand.
- There would be broad planning for light rail integrated into the design of the bridge.
- Event buses are considered not to use the bridge in the short term, at further stages SOPA may conduct further investigation for event buses to use the bridge in the longer
term if required.

1.27 Bridge users:
- Safety should be considered with high recreation/ younger children cyclist and pedestrians.
- High speed cyclists would use the bus lane.
- Consider limiting the types of buses that use the bridge; STA buses, coaches, school buses, shuttle buses etc.
- CCTV and monitoring technology would be used to enforce bus only way.

1.29 Proposed bridge bus movements:
- Preliminary bus routes from current option from Homebush Bay Bridge website.
- Linking Newington has not been considered at this stage; expanding the bus route limits the ability to provide a high frequency service.
- Key foundation of the bus services is high frequency to invoke behaviour change.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:00 pm

Public transport related objections:
http://majorprojects.planning.nsw.gov.au/?action=list_submissions&search=&job_id=4331&title=Website%20Submissions&type=2

Peter Egan , of Artarmon NSW, made the following submission on the project:
Homebush Bay Bridge - Project Application
Objects to this project
I object to the bridge on the basis that it is too low for a RiverCat to pass underneath at maximum high tide. While the dimensions are very hard to read on the plans on exhibition, it appears the bridge is at least 3 metres to low for public transport ferries to pass underneath.

While the present Government may have no plans for public transport ferry services up to Olympic Park, it does not mean no provision should be made for ferry services in the future.

An extra half metre, above that required for maximum high tide, should be added to the minimum height requirement for possible sea level rise in the next 100 years.

Allowing for public transport ferries to pass under will have very little impact on the bridge and its cost and and be barely noticeable for bridge users.



Peter Egan , of Artarmon NSW, made the following submission on the project:
Homebush Bay Bridge - Project Application
Objects to this project
Looking at the very hard to read low resolution drawing of the bridge once again, the maximum clearance under the bridge is about 6 metres. Off centre under the largest span, no more than 5 metres of clearance can be relied upon. No charter boat or ferry will be able to approach Olympic Park. This project will only permit private pleasure craft to access Olympic Park by water.

While TfNSW may have no present intention to run or permit ferry services up to Olympic Park, they may get included in the long term masterplan this year or after the next election.

The bridge will exclude ferry and charter services from Olympic Park for the next century. The height of the bridge can be raised for negligible cost and it will make very little difference to pedestrians, cyclists and buses.



(Name withheld) , of unknown NSW, made the following submission on the project:
Homebush Bay Bridge - Project Application
Objects to this project
I object to the Bridge over Homebush Bay from Wentworth Point to Rhodes on the following grounds:
1. Maritime has failed to take into account NSW Government and Federal government scenarios for sea level rise for climate change in setting the height of the bridge over the navigable channel in Homebush Bay.
2. The relevant Environmental assessment is grossly deficient in its analysis of the impacts of the proposed traffic flows within Rhodes as a result of the bridge being a public transport link. The routing of the traffic within Rhodes and it's consequent impact on residents, particulalry in shoreline Drive is not dealt with, yet is a direct results only of the bridge being built.
3. The impact of the Bridge on the proposed community centre in Rhodes near Gauthorpe Street will have a substantial negative impact and is not in the interests of the residents of Rhodes The reduction in opens space and community centre will have an adverse effect on the 11,500 residents of Rhodes.
4. The traffic impact of heavy buses in Gauthorpe Street with attendant noise, diesel pollution and risk to resident pedestrians including children is excessive and was not communicated to the purchasers before purchase of unnits in Statewide on the corner of Marquet and Gauthorpe Sts.. Diesel fumes will be particulalry bad at first floor leve and particulate matter is a known hazard for asthma sufferers. The setbacks are not long enough for a street with probably hundreds of buses a day if there is a need to bus children to school at Wentworth Point..
5. Routing of the buses to the Rhodes Shopping centre would require buses to return to the bridge through Shoreline Drive a quiet, narrow residential street at that southern end. No STA size bus can make the corner from facing west to facing north in Shoreline Drive near the shopping centre without crossing double yellow line on a blind corner.
6. The fumes at first floor level in shoreline drive between Rider Boulevarde and the bridge will be adverse to the ehalth and amenity of residents, and more so if hundreds of school children have to be bused to a school at Wentworth Point.
7. The reduction in amenity of users of the Rhodes foreshore pathways and parks because of the levels of the landing of the bridge on the Rhodes side is unwarranted and outweighs any perceived benefits of the bridge

This environmental assessment is grossly deficient even if done in accordance with DG's requirements as it doesn't cover any traffic analysis within Rhodes.


I read somewhere that objection point No. 5 will be rectified. Also, diesel fumes is not an issue as most STA buses that run on diesel are very clean - from Euro 5 emission standard upwards.


Jessica Chen , of unknown NSW, made the following submission on the project:
Homebush Bay Bridge - Project Application
Objects to this project
To Department of Planning and Infrastructure

I would like to make a formal complaint about the two-lane bridge proposal which recently included a provision for public transport (bus services). The proposed bridge is 455m long which would take approximately 5-6mins to walk from one end to the other, clearly not a distance difficult to commute by the average person especially given that cycling is allowed on the bridge. The introduction of a bus lane would negatively impact residence of both Wentworth Point and Rhodes Peninsula with higher noise pollution and higher traffic into Rhodes. The removal of public transport facilities on the bridge would not have a high impact on increased use of cars as the bridge as a footpath/cyclepath would on its own have a huge impact on convenience of the Wentworth Point residences that providing bus services would have a low cost to benefit ratio.

I would like to discuss this further so would welcome contact from your department regarding this matter.

Kind regards,



Jessica
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Stu » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:03 pm

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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby swtt » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:48 pm

How can you run a ferry up Homebush Bay and "into" Olympic Park? Isn't there already a Sydney Olympic Park Wharf?

What a fantasy world some people live in!
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:40 am

Stu wrote:Public transport related objections:


Jessica Chen , of unknown NSW, made the following submission on the project:

I would like to make a formal complaint about the two-lane bridge proposal which recently included a provision for public transport (bus services). The proposed bridge is 455m long which would take approximately 5-6mins to walk from one end to the other, clearly not a distance difficult to commute by the average person especially given that cycling is allowed on the bridge. The introduction of a bus lane would negatively impact residence of both Wentworth Point and Rhodes Peninsula with higher noise pollution and higher traffic into Rhodes. The removal of public transport facilities on the bridge would not have a high impact on increased use of cars as the bridge as a footpath/cyclepath would on its own have a huge impact on convenience of the Wentworth Point residences that providing bus services would have a low cost to benefit ratio.


Jessica



pity about those who have difficulty walking!
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby tonyp » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:32 pm

Stu wrote:Also, diesel fumes is not an issue as most STA buses that run on diesel are very clean - from Euro 5 emission standard upwards.

Excuse me? :?

That's delusional. The Euro standards are simply an effort to lift a dirty, hazardous technology from being very dirty to less very dirty (but no less hazardous to health). Diesel remains inherently an unsuitable technology for use in cities and EU countries are still working towards having it removed altogether from cities.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby boronia » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:52 pm

As usual, many of the complaints seem to be from people who don't live in the area.
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Re: Homebush Bay Bridge

Postby swtt » Thu May 05, 2016 8:25 pm

More info on Homebush Bay Bridge shuttle:

http://wentworthpointcommunity.org/news ... e-update-4
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