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Metrobus a few years on: a success?

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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby facm337 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:29 am

With the Parramatta-Lidcombe leg of the M92, there is a lot of potential for growth, as there are quite a few possible patronage generators along the Parramatta Rd corridor, eg. Auburn megamart, reading cinemas, spotlight, and the new Costco store is opening on there too. So hopefully we'll see an improvement ala the M41 in the future.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:36 pm

Mike M wrote:The question has to be asked is whether the Metrobus routes have achieved anything that couldn't have been done by putting extra resources on existing routes where demand justified it?

Indeed.

I am particularly concerned about the M50 and M61 in this regard. These people could have been served by extra 370/372/39x/5xx/610X runs.

If you are going to have a branded service, the original Metrobus routes weren't the right markets. They were about reducing congestion on the inner parts and avoiding longer distance buses to stop so often. However, later routes such as the M60, M54, M41, M92 ARE the right markets but the operating hours, only 20 minute frequency and no timetables aren't enough for a brand.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Simes » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:26 pm

simonl wrote:I am particularly concerned about the M50 and M61 in this regard. These people could have been served by extra 370/372/39x/5xx/610X runs.

With the m50 and adding more services to the 370/2 and 39x - the whole idea is that the route does not terminate in the city, if you add more to the more traditional runs, then you choke up the CBD

simonl wrote:If you are going to have a branded service, the original Metrobus routes weren't the right markets. They were about reducing congestion on the inner parts and avoiding longer distance buses to stop so often.

I thought the idea was somewhat limited stops, pre pay only - aimed at regular travellers and from my own travels on those routes it seems they have hit the mark

simonl wrote: However, later routes such as the M60, M54, M41, M92 ARE the right markets but the operating hours, only 20 minute frequency and no timetables aren't enough for a brand.

The hours aren't ideal at the moment, however I do recall that the 400 when it started was a monday to friday service and wound up about 8pm - these things evolve, I hope the m41 follows that
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:13 pm

Simes wrote:With the m50 and adding more services to the 370/2 and 39x - the whole idea is that the route does not terminate in the city, if you add more to the more traditional runs, then you choke up the CBD

This is only a problem in peak hour. You can add a peak hour supplement which might terminate somewhere to solve this one.

Simes wrote:I thought the idea was somewhat limited stops, pre pay only - aimed at regular travellers and from my own travels on those routes it seems they have hit the mark

Better than nothing, I suppose. Although I thought the first Metrobus routes were all stops?

Simes wrote:The hours aren't ideal at the moment, however I do recall that the 400 when it started was a monday to friday service and wound up about 8pm - these things evolve, I hope the m41 follows that

The 400 wasn't a branded service though. Introducing a mediocre brand makes it hard to upgrade the brand later. You need to establish a completely different brand, which makes the metrobus marketing effort rather wasteful.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:32 pm

The 400 wasn't a branded service though. Introducing a mediocre brand makes it hard to upgrade the brand later. You need to establish a completely different brand, which makes the metrobus marketing effort rather wasteful.


Not true. The 400 was initially branded Metroline which it subsequently lost. And that had nothing to do with increasing the service.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:00 pm

Doh! I remember that now. Doesn't change my point though.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby bus909 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:24 pm

Wonder why them just cant do metrobus on 400 and 525? Because it would become Sydney's longest route thans M92,L90? and driver possibly get sit too long?
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby boronia » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Mike M wrote:The question has to be asked is whether the Metrobus routes have achieved anything that couldn't have been done by putting extra resources on existing routes where demand justified it?

I think the psychological effect of "something new" rather just a few more of the same, would make people take a bit more notice.

This would work better in the "Metrobus Mk2" model (replacing existing services) than the original concept (just adding capacity to existing services).
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby missy1 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:51 pm

bus909
You certainly have a thing about getting rid of the 962. Even though you have the m92 you still need to carry the people from Illawong, Alfords Point, and Menai. As for the extension to Cronulla all i can say is thats not going to happen. Even with the extensions of the 962's to Cronulla on weekends, the buses remain virtually empty from Miranda onwards, a complete waste of time.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby bus909 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:54 pm

missy1 wrote:bus909
You certainly have a thing about getting rid of the 962. Even though you have the m92 you still need to carry the people from Illawong, Alfords Point, and Menai. As for the extension to Cronulla all i can say is thats not going to happen. Even with the extensions of the 962's to Cronulla on weekends, the buses remain virtually empty from Miranda onwards, a complete waste of time.



m92 should actually go to Illawong, Alfords Point and Menai area just same route way as 962 then extends to Miranda. Then rids of 962. So give a new m92 service between them area.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Daz » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:05 pm

I once caught an M91 service at about 10am on a Saturday morning.

This being my first EVER trip on public transport anywhere, I was pleasantly surprised to find I was the only passenger on the bus for about 10 minutes of my short trip. What did annoy me was that it took 17 minutes to get from Chester Hill station to Granville. I have operated coaches out of Chester Hill now for over a year and I did not know some of the streets this bus travelled down even existed.

I could have nearly built my own coach from scrap and got their quicker; only it was very cold, I was quite hung over and I only had 54 wheel nuts. Quite enough for a two axle but I live for the element of 'laziness'.

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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Kurt » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:19 pm

As a regular commuter around the menai area, I would hate the M92 to go through Illawong as that adds 10 minutes onto a trip to Padstow/Bankstown. I think the M92 should be extended to Miranda and the 962 could act as a local service between Sutherland and Padstow via Illawong/Alfords point and the Marketplace (with possible Hall Dr, Alison Cr and even Billa/Yala peak hour diversions) where transfer tickets could be purchased to interchange between services on Menai and Old Illawarra roads. The 961 would remain as is and the 963 could be replaced. Didn't they have a similar setup in the late 90's?

Also, as others have said, the M92 timetable is too slow, I'd much prefer a bus thats 2 minutes late over having to wait a total of 10 minutes between Menai and Padstow
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby bus909 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:48 pm

Kurt wrote:As a regular commuter around the menai area, I would hate the M92 to go through Illawong as that adds 10 minutes onto a trip to Padstow/Bankstown. I think the M92 should be extended to Miranda and the 962 could act as a local service between Sutherland and Padstow via Illawong/Alfords point and the Marketplace (with possible Hall Dr, Alison Cr and even Billa/Yala peak hour diversions) where transfer tickets could be purchased to interchange between services on Menai and Old Illawarra roads. The 961 would remain as is and the 963 could be replaced. Didn't they have a similar setup in the late 90's?

Also, as others have said, the M92 timetable is too slow, I'd much prefer a bus thats 2 minutes late over having to wait a total of 10 minutes between Menai and Padstow



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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun May 01, 2011 9:11 am

I know that Veolia and the Department of Transport are both watching this thread with interest so there is no need to send them a message.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Xplorer » Sun May 01, 2011 4:57 pm

bus909 wrote:Wonder why them just cant do metrobus on 400 and 525? Because it would become Sydney's longest route thans M92,L90? and driver possibly get sit too long?

Both 400 and 525 run at 30 minutes intervals during off peaks, so why turn them into 15 minutes buses when the patronage is quite pathetic?
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby missy1 » Sun May 01, 2011 5:43 pm

I'm sure we are all aware that after a bit of a trial period times will be fine tuned for the 91,92. Feedback from us drivers is also relevant. Talking from my perspective the time sitting about is frustrating so a little bit of a solution is to leave late from the start of each trip. Sometimes i will wait 5 mins but then again you never know what is around the corner. You could confront any situation.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby swtt » Sun May 01, 2011 7:29 pm

Xplorer wrote:
bus909 wrote:Wonder why them just cant do metrobus on 400 and 525? Because it would become Sydney's longest route thans M92,L90? and driver possibly get sit too long?

Both 400 and 525 run at 30 minutes intervals during off peaks, so why turn them into 15 minutes buses when the patronage is quite pathetic?


400 doesn't run at 30 min off peak. It's 20 min Bondi Jn to Burwood and 7-8 min to Eastgardens during the weekday off peak.

I reckon, boost the service levels and people will eventually come. Yes there may be fresh air conditioning carried in the first few months but that's because people haven't adjusted to the new service.

I'm sure now that people know M41 is exactly the 400 between Burwood & Bexley Nth that more people have used the M41. I for one testify that in December last year that nobody knew what the M41 was despite those red buses turning up in Burwood empty, whilst they continued to wait for a 400 which would be full by the time it got to Burwood Station from Westfield!
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby bus909 » Sun May 01, 2011 8:20 pm

M41 is welcome them :D, I went to Burwood today, When an M90 depart at Burwood for Liverpool, M41 is behind of M90 bus, then both nice red metrobus leave same time :D haha.....Hope M41 getting improved and it will growth...
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby facm337 » Sun May 01, 2011 8:41 pm

I boarded an M60 today at Hornsby at around 3pm on a Sunday. Was very impressed, about 10-11 people got on at Hornsby. A group of girls got off at Normanhurst, I got off at Pennant Hills, where 2 more people boarded. So about 8 or 9 people headed towards Cherrybrook in total. Two M60s headed in the opposite direction I saw had about 2-3 people on them too. Definitely better than the air I was expecting this service to carry at all times.

Does anyone know what sort of loads the M90 gets around the Bankstown/Liverpool ends?
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby bus909 » Sun May 01, 2011 9:15 pm

facm337 wrote:I boarded an M60 today at Hornsby at around 3pm on a Sunday. Was very impressed, about 10-11 people got on at Hornsby. A group of girls got off at Normanhurst, I got off at Pennant Hills, where 2 more people boarded. So about 8 or 9 people headed towards Cherrybrook in total. Two M60s headed in the opposite direction I saw had about 2-3 people on them too. Definitely better than the air I was expecting this service to carry at all times.

Does anyone know what sort of loads the M90 gets around the Bankstown/Liverpool ends?



I did ride m90 today, From Burwood to Liverpool, Was like impressed them carry more passenegers at Burwood westfield then arriving Strathfield picked up more and some of them pickup at Chulla market and Greenacre and most of them get off at Bankstown then picked up other some people who go to Milperra UWS or Liverpool...then pickup some people at NewBirgde Road who want go to Liverpool then drop off them in Liverpool station. then Nobody on bus. fresh air carry to westfield then end of the trips. But still good and improved.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby bus909 » Mon May 02, 2011 10:30 am

Yesterday (Sunday) I ride m92 from Lidcombe station at late aftermoon at 4:54pm, When I'm board on bus, it was fresh air carry, then somehow them pick up passenegers at John St, Lidcombe total: 3 peoples, then on Parramatta road contiune to pass Silverwater rd contiune. Then pickup some people from there then contiune to Parramatta. M92 just about to getting improved and growth more. Also other I saw m92 at Bankstown yesterday about 1:08pm. Is on way to Sutherland via Padstow, Menai, Bangors. Are pickup people at Bankstown then head to just next street pickup one person then again pickup other person at Macauley Av then pickup again at Chapel RD south then pickup again at Gibson Av then heading to Padstow. It's good to see M92 begin growth and people start to notied M92 is in use. Now I seen 962 is empty, M92 is carry at Bankstown centro, then head to Bankstown interchange, almost of them catch M92, then few people catch 962.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Andrew » Mon May 02, 2011 10:48 am

missy1 wrote:I'm sure we are all aware that after a bit of a trial period times will be fine tuned for the 91,92. Feedback from us drivers is also relevant. Talking from my perspective the time sitting about is frustrating so a little bit of a solution is to leave late from the start of each trip. Sometimes i will wait 5 mins but then again you never know what is around the corner. You could confront any situation.


As a driver I would prefer to have a tight timetable to run to so I can do the speed limit between stops, with longer turn around times at each end to account for busier traffic when you might run a bit late, than to have a slow timetable, leaving us to run slow and/or wait at stops - particularly when there are people on board who just want to get where they are going.

Having said that - tight, consistently late-running timetables might be better for me, but isn't better for passengers, who expect that the bus will arrive at or about its timetabled time. It is a fine balancing act, which is generally done quite well across Sydney from my experience.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Mon May 02, 2011 1:30 pm

Xplorer wrote:
bus909 wrote:Wonder why them just cant do metrobus on 400 and 525? Because it would become Sydney's longest route thans M92,L90? and driver possibly get sit too long?

Both 400 and 525 run at 30 minutes intervals during off peaks, so why turn them into 15 minutes buses when the patronage is quite pathetic?

I've used both of these routes a number of times and I do not find their patronage pathetic at all. Although the Silverwater-Newington bit of the 525 is lightly loaded, the Newington-Strathfield bit gets quite a number. Not sure about Parramatta-Silverwater, but to Ermington there are a number of alternative services, so that probably isn't that busy.

Metrobus on the 400 and 525 could be a good idea.

Andrew wrote:As a driver I would prefer to have a tight timetable to run to so I can do the speed limit between stops, with longer turn around times at each end to account for busier traffic when you might run a bit late, than to have a slow timetable, leaving us to run slow and/or wait at stops - particularly when there are people on board who just want to get where they are going.

Having said that - tight, consistently late-running timetables might be better for me, but isn't better for passengers, who expect that the bus will arrive at or about its timetabled time. It is a fine balancing act, which is generally done quite well across Sydney from my experience.

No, as a passenger I fully support what you are saying. The timetable needs to allow for a reasonably free run at that time of day. It is very frustrating to have to sit on a bus running slow or making up time at a stop. Same for a train.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Xplorer » Mon May 02, 2011 1:43 pm

Well, that's something I find quite interesting with intercity trains. In Sydney suburban areas, those trains are often given more than enough time to do express, for example, a Kiama train often waits at Hurstville for 3 minutes. However, once it is in the intercity regions, it is often running late, even though sometimes only by 3 minutes, but it is quite significant. Why can't they give trains more time to run in the intercity regions, and less time in the suburban regions?
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby 2MSJ » Mon May 02, 2011 5:01 pm

Yes Andrew - Have the people waiting for the bus, not the bus waiting for the people :)
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