• Advertisement

Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:03 am

Just mentions of not enough services -

https://inthecove.com.au/2017/02/14/lan ... -response/
Tonymercury
 
Posts: 2590
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:14 pm
Location: Botany NSW
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 335 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:18 am

Guess I have a higher bar to call it successful. Did Metrobus increase service-km and did those service-km result in more patronage? Almost certainly. Could the money have been spent better? I am sure.
simonl
 
Posts: 7955
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 845 times
Been thanked: 364 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby boronia » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:27 am

When you have Metrobuses blending in with lots of other services, it would be difficult to attribute any increases in patronage along the corridor specifically to that service. There are natural increases from the proliferation of inner suburban high rises along the corridors; Metrobus is just a variation in the manner in which the additional patronage is absorbed. Giving people more choice has got to be a good thing.

Could the money have been better spent? We'll never really know.
The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again May 2018
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 17678
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 258 times
Been thanked: 1610 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:54 am

Just as a matter of interest, I've now met a number of people from Botany and Mascot who travel to the North Sydney area, all of whom say its more convenient, if sometimes slower, than changing into a super crowded train in the CBD in the morning.
Tonymercury
 
Posts: 2590
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:14 pm
Location: Botany NSW
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 335 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby boronia » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:00 pm

That was one of the purposes of "Metrobus Junction"; to allow convenient interchange between the different services.
The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again May 2018
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 17678
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 258 times
Been thanked: 1610 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:20 pm

?

I'm sure we have known all along if money should have been spent on, for example, the eastern portion of the M40 or increasing the 333.

There were a few good connections achieved but whether they were worth the money spent is questionable and in some cases clearly they weren't, e.g. Parramatta Rd to Anzac Pde.
simonl
 
Posts: 7955
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 845 times
Been thanked: 364 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby swtt » Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:42 pm

Frosty wrote:I thought the people in Lane Cove are complaining about how full all the freeway CBD buses are hence demanding more services.


A la Sydney Trains style, we should make ALL Lane Cove Interchange people take an all stopper by balancing out the loads between freeway services and the relatively empty North Sydney bound services :P :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
User avatar
swtt
 
Posts: 4699
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:49 pm
Has thanked: 800 times
Been thanked: 345 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Stu » Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:49 am

Frosty wrote:The thing the m20 terminus at Mascot it wasn’t operationally very good since the layover was on southbound side of Sutherland St after King St. Can’t remeber if the last stop was King St or Hollingshed St. Had there not been the infrastructure restrictions at Eastgardens it would of probably terminated there.

I noticed in the new timetable for the m20 there are non-wheelchair accessible trips being peak hour trips between Zetland & the City. If saw correctly I think they’re R depot runs.


Correct. The new timetable has had a huge impact on the operational side of STA, optimisation has been reduced again just like it was in 2015 for the City CBD service network changes. Previously R-Depot have only operated route m20 as additional services during the VIVID Festival Of Light 2016 (W-Depot as well).

R-Depot now operates the following m20 services:
Zetland to Wynyard: 08:45, 08:49 & 09:04.
Wynyard to Zetland: 18:13.
Stu
 
Posts: 3748
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:37 pm
Has thanked: 119 times
Been thanked: 446 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Fleet Lists » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:45 am

Even so they are timetabled as wheelchair services.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 20231
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 993 times
Been thanked: 1084 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:43 pm

By pure luck I came across prototype bus 2111 on M20 today, which I otherwise have not seen for several months. That's a really lovely bus. Engine sounds pleasantly similar to STA's Scania CB80 buses. Windows were pleasingly large and the lightings better too. It also seemed smoother. Finally, like 2109 and 2110, it actually looks like a "metro" bus - the Volgren bendies look wormy in comparison.

Nah but this just takes me back to my earlier point of how in every prototype Metrobus theres just something that really stands out as better than the Volgren C2R88L bendies which by itself is no means a bad bus, but if compared to the prototypes, then it suddenly leaves a lot to be desired.

Thats a shame. At least for B-Line, in my own opinion, I'm quite convinced that the MAN Deckers are a quality product, and im glad it didn't become like, 1 MAN Decker as a rare prototype bus that I would have almost inevitably ended up liking better, and then Bustech CDi as the main backbone of B-Line. The Libs at least got the fleet for their bus project right :)
Scania K280UB CB80 > Volvo B7RLE CB80

Millennium > Waratah
User avatar
Jurassic_Joke
 
Posts: 722
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:08 pm
Location: North Snore
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 89 times
Favourite Vehicle: STA Scania K280UB CC CB80

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Linto63 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:30 pm

simonl wrote:There were a few good connections achieved but whether they were worth the money spent is questionable and in some cases clearly they weren't, e.g. Parramatta Rd to Anzac Pde.
Ultimately none of us have any concrete information on whether they are well used or otherwise. But that they have survived two major service reviews unscathed suggests that those who do have access to the data, must see some merit in the concept.

Re the inclusion of Metrobus services in timetables, have noticed that some of the smaller timetables also have the 'see separate section' for the M services rather than listing all. So it does seem a bit haphazzard as t which stops do and don't list times.
Linto63
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:35 pm

A possibility. Another one is that politics is preventing any sort of change which might improve the services.
simonl
 
Posts: 7955
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 845 times
Been thanked: 364 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Linto63 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:39 pm

simonl wrote:A possibility. Another one is that politics is preventing any sort of change which might improve the services.
Possibly, but the government doesn't seem to have been too afraid to take an axe to services, including many in its own strongholds, e.g. curtailing services from the lower north shore and northern beaches.
Linto63
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby pgt » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:10 pm

swtt wrote:
Frosty wrote:I thought the people in Lane Cove are complaining about how full all the freeway CBD buses are hence demanding more services.
A la Sydney Trains style, we should make ALL Lane Cove Interchange people take an all stopper by balancing out the loads between freeway services and the relatively empty North Sydney bound services :P :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Except they removed the option for an all stops bus Lane Cove to the City via Pacific Highway when they cut back the 252 peak buses to Victoria Cross, and diverted the 254 and 290 (now 291) to McMahons Point, where presumably they'd make more money for people changing to a ferry... (my thought anyway).

The M20 would have fit that bill quite well had it run from Lane Cove or beyond, although there's a few peak period buses that actually fill up just after Crows Nest I have noticed (on the few times I had to take an AM peak M20 to the city from the Gore Hill end) - presumably because the 343 doesn't stop close enough to Wynyard (273 used to terminate there), and 261 is too infrequent to fill the gap (on top of the other changes mentioned above).
"It's my way or the (side of the) highway".
Might be a way to lead life, but more like the way that some people drive.
User avatar
pgt
 
Posts: 1004
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:05 pm
Location: Now deep in STA territory
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 50 times
Favourite Vehicle: MAN SL202/MB O305G/Volvo B10M

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:49 pm

Linto63 wrote:By and large they now use the same stops as services they share corridors with.

That is somewhat incorrect. There are a few shared stops but not that many. That's one of the weaknesses.
simonl
 
Posts: 7955
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 845 times
Been thanked: 364 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby moa999 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:50 pm

I'd have thought Lane Cove residents would prefer some changes to their ferry service, eg. Inclusion under Opal.
moa999
 
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:12 pm
Has thanked: 276 times
Been thanked: 278 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Fleet Lists » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:04 pm

If you are referring to the limited Captain Cook service, Opal is on the way some time in the first half of this year probably on the same basis as the Manly fast Ferry.

But I think they would want a more frequent service.
Living in the Shire.
User avatar
Fleet Lists
Administrator
 
Posts: 20231
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:49 am
Location: The Shire
Has thanked: 993 times
Been thanked: 1084 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Linto63 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:37 pm

simonl wrote:
Linto63 wrote:By and large they now use the same stops as services they share corridors with.

That is somewhat incorrect. There are a few shared stops but not that many. That's one of the weaknesses.
Rubbish, couple of examples.

M10: Journey planner shows it has the exact same stopping pattern as route 438 from where they join on Parramatta Rd through to Railway Square, then follows the same pattern as route 394 from Museum station through to Maroubra Junction.
M20: exact same stopping pattern as route 252 from Gore Hill to North Sydney, then the same pattern as route 343 from Museum station until they split in Redfern.
M30: exact same stopping pattern as route 423 from where they join at Enmore Road through to Railway Square, then follows the same pattern as route 244 from Neutral Bay until they split at the bottom of Mosman shops.

It's only in the 1 kilometre or so section between Railway Square and Museum / Town Hall where these Metrobus routes vary from their traditional style counterparts, the vast majority of stops are shared. So the suggestion that Metrobuses have 'a few shared stops but not that many' appears a myth.
Linto63
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:02 pm

That's a pretty important section!

Re: M20 & M30 you're ignoring outbound. Neutral Bay is far too late to join up wrt M30 northbound, for example.
simonl
 
Posts: 7955
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 845 times
Been thanked: 364 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:09 pm

Yeah, you're right. Metrobus has no weaknesses whatsoever. :roll:
simonl
 
Posts: 7955
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:03 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 845 times
Been thanked: 364 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Linto63 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:30 pm

Never said that, just that you keep making statements which are incorrect.

The reason Metrobus routes travel from Railway Square to Museum via Eddy Avenue & Elizabeth St rather than Pitt & Liverpool Sts as most of the 4 series routes do is probably to do with trying to spread the load, the latter is a bit of a carpark as it is.

The M30's northbound stopping pattern is Eddy Ave, Downing Centre, Park St, Clarence St x 2, Neutral Bay, where else it should stop?

I didn't check the M20 and M30 in the opposite direction, are the stopping patterns materially different? In each case I tracked each route against an inbound route and the compared it against another on the way out, so 3 inbound, 3 outbound.
Linto63
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby pgt » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:10 pm

Linto63 wrote:The M30's northbound stopping pattern is Eddy Ave, Downing Centre, Park St, Clarence St x 2, Neutral Bay, where else it should stop?
The only way it can possibly "match" the majority of the other Military Road from the city routes (northbound) is if it diverts via Carrington St, which I remember bringing up here a while back (which, if it were to do it [it doesn't], would be the same diversion the L90 did when it formerly operated from Railway Square).

Southbound, with the exception of the fact it also stops at Lang Park Wynyard, it uses all the stops that the 247 does (given it starts at Taronga Zoo now, which the 247 formerly did).
From the Castlereagh/Bathurst St stop, if I have it right it stops at all the stops the 423/426 does up until it turns off at Sydenham Road from Victoria Road, Marrickville.
"It's my way or the (side of the) highway".
Might be a way to lead life, but more like the way that some people drive.
User avatar
pgt
 
Posts: 1004
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:05 pm
Location: Now deep in STA territory
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 50 times
Favourite Vehicle: MAN SL202/MB O305G/Volvo B10M

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby boronia » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:54 pm

The best measure of the success of the cross city routes would be to determine how many people travel substantially in both segments in a trip. Trips to/from the city only will largely be siphoned off other routes.

Are they really "connecting people in the east with the west", etc? That was their claimed advantage; do people really (want to) travel from Maroubra to Leichhardt, or from Sydenham to Mosman?
The Sydney Classic and Antique Truck (and Bus) Show
On again May 2018
@ The Museum of Fire.
User avatar
boronia
 
Posts: 17678
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:18 am
Location: Sydney
Has thanked: 258 times
Been thanked: 1610 times
Favourite Vehicle: Dennis

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Frosty » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:26 pm

I don't see much cross-city trips with the m20 when most trips are done between the City & Zetland. There maybe a few people who use the m20 to go North Sydney from the south side. The m20 is becoming slowly like a regular inner city route. Generally I've seen with the m20 patronage is very low south of Zetland along Botany Rd. Though during the morning peak patronage is okay between Zetland & Botany mostly local people for short commutes. Thinking of the Botany Rd corridor with the m20 doesn't serve CBD commuters that well also X09/X10 stopping at Green Square would have an effect. Doesn't serve people who work in the Banksmeadow & Pt Botany area who are generally more long distance commuters who transfer at Redfern & Green Square.

The m50 I can see has it merit people along Vic Rd wanting to travel to Coogee Beach without changing buses in a similar way to the 370 though usefulness has been reduced ever since it bypasses UNSW. Though the m40 is limited in usefulness for people on the north side as a lot of people would want to continue to Bondi Beach
Frosty
 
Posts: 1691
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:16 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 108 times

Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Linto63 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:00 pm

There is a bit of peripheral cross-city use, but agree the majority is to/from the cbd. As previously stated the through cross-city routes were really just short-workings of existing routes combined, allowing more services to be operated without the need to provide more stabling space in the cbd.

Was the separate Metrobus branding necessary? Probably not, particularly when it was done around the same time that TfNSW deemed all buses be painted in the one white and blue livery. The average bus traveller couldn't care less what colour their bus is painted.

But nothing like a shiny new toy for the pollies to wheel out for the voters, and gives the marketing types something to crow about. Bit like what we now have with the B-Line. From the recent timetable changes and with standard livery buses appearing on Metrobus routes and vice versa as often as not, seems that inevitably the brand will quitely be phased out.
Linto63
 
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 98 times

PreviousNext


  • Advertisement

Return to Discussion - Sydney / NSW

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: boronia and 9 guests