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Metrobus a few years on: a success?

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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Fleet Lists » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:26 am

Timetables were always available on Transport Info for al M routes while Hillsbus and Transdev have always published paper timetables for their M routes. And now that State Transport does not appear tp print any timetables there is no difference between M routes and State Transit's other routes in that respect.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Glen » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:04 pm

boronia wrote:
Newcastle Flyer wrote:I thought Metrobus was meant to be fast express routes stopping, not an all stops service.

The only distinctions for a Metrobus service initially were:
1. no published timetables but theoretical consistent frequency at different times of the day
2, All pre-pay
3. Through CBD running
4. dedicated buses with "enhanced" passenger capacity.

Their intention was to boost capacity over the busier sections of the trunks they shared with other services.

What you refer to of course were just the initial STA routes M10, M20, M30, M40, M50.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Glen » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:07 pm

Linto63 wrote:Its purposes were likely many and varied. Those that pass through the CBD effectively combined multiple routes alleviating the need to stable buses in the cbd. Others such as the M41, M90 provided new cross country services effectively restarting the stillborn Red Arrow project. Others like the M52 and M61 were just existing routes rebranded. The theory was that they would operate frequently enough to not require a timetable, but in reality many only operate every 20 minutes or so, hence now appear on timetables.

Amongst the privates:

Transdev M90 was a rebranding of 900, with a much better frequency

Transdev M91 was an amalgamation of 910 and 948

Transdev M92 was brand new

Hillsbus M60 was an extension of 600

Hillsbus M61 was a short-working of 610/610X.

You'll notice the mathematical relationship between the old and new route numbers.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Richard290 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:35 pm

Glen wrote:
Linto63 wrote:Its purposes were likely many and varied. Those that pass through the CBD effectively combined multiple routes alleviating the need to stable buses in the cbd. Others such as the M41, M90 provided new cross country services effectively restarting the stillborn Red Arrow project. Others like the M52 and M61 were just existing routes rebranded. The theory was that they would operate frequently enough to not require a timetable, but in reality many only operate every 20 minutes or so, hence now appear on timetables.

Amongst the privates:

Transdev M90 was a rebranding of 900, with a much better frequency

Transdev M91 was an amalgamation of 910 and 948

Transdev M92 was brand new

Hillsbus M60 was an extension of 600

Hillsbus M61 was a short-working of 610/610X.

You'll notice the mathematical relationship between the old and new route numbers.


M52 was a rebranding of L20, which was a variant of 520, which was then curtailed to run only at night.
M54 was an extension, service increase and rebranding of 548.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby pgt » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:36 pm

Linto63 wrote:While there were no changes or even renumberings as Bxx routes as suggested a few years ago, the Metrobus brand appears to have quietly been dropped with no reference on at stop timetables.
Actually, the new "hop" style stop timetables do give times for the Metrobus routes (eg. at Neutral Bay Junction, it now shows the M30 amongst the other routes, but does not have the B1).
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby GazzaOak » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:57 am

I think its was an success.... i used to live on the pacific hwy where its served the M30.... its was good (with the addition of 333 and whatever)
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby thunderbird » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:42 pm

If M92 did not exist, I would not have taken public transport to work at Bankstown from my home in Sutherland.

But I don't think metrobus was a success at all. They could have called M92 whatever they wanted, to me it was just a new bus route. It had a timetable, and often had to sit at Menai and Padstow for 3-5 minutes to allow time to pass. It never had the stop announcements, it was never a high capacity bus (until now with the DDs). The route was a good addition to the bus network, but the metrobus was just a branding, that didn't live up to its original objectives.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:42 pm

thunderbird wrote:If M92 did not exist, I would not have taken public transport to work at Bankstown from my home in Sutherland.

But I don't think metrobus was a success at all. They could have called M92 whatever they wanted, to me it was just a new bus route. It had a timetable, and often had to sit at Menai and Padstow for 3-5 minutes to allow time to pass. It never had the stop announcements, it was never a high capacity bus (until now with the DDs). The route was a good addition to the bus network, but the metrobus was just a branding, that didn't live up to its original objectives.
Isn’t the Bankstown to Sutherland part of the M92 just a 962 without the Menai Marketplace loop the trip though Illawong
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:49 pm

The M92 was implemented in a hurry by the Labour government in its final days. There were plans to subsequently reorganise the 962 but strangely the new government did not proceed with that.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Jurassic_Joke » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:23 pm

In a way, no, its not. Yes they have their frequency and nice routes and all.

But on the other hand.

I will tell you all now, a few nights ago, I got an M41 B12BLE CB60evo2 metrobus, and I believe by accident, it still had automatic stop announcements on it. I cannot stress how helpful it was to making sure I got to push the stop button in time to arrive at Rhodes Station.

That and the electronic scrolling next stop display.

It worked fantastically. Yet because of the NSW Transport Logic of "If it works well, then its a failure" (see Gong Shuttle crisis), we never saw it expand past Metrobus and in the meantime, was removed from almost every single existing Metrobus vehicle. It worked. It worked. And they got rid of it. So its a failure from me because one of the buses Key Sellings Points were removed. That and the fact that most of them stop operation at 8pm, yeah well, if B line can run till midnight, so can these buses.

And finally - I've travelled on every Metrobus prototype (the latest of which was the standard bus 2108, lovely bus) thats still in service and tbh, the fact that I already find something I like about each of these different prototypes much better than the Volgren B12BLEA C2R88L, then that also reeks of a thumbs down from me.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Glen » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:47 pm

Jurassic_Joke wrote:That and the fact that most of them stop operation at 8pm, yeah well, if B line can run till midnight, so can these buses.

M90 and M91 always ran until late at night and others have extended recently.

The ones that don't tend to duplicate other routes that do (M92 being an exception at the northern end).
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Frosty » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:01 pm

The m20 now runs till late around 12am except only between Wynyard & Zetland & starts around 5am Mon- Fri.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:27 am

Did it save some seats for the ALP in 2011? Probably.

I honestly can't understand why the Libs haven't reviewed some of the weaknesses in the formula, particularly the earlier through CBD routes which made little sense at the time and still don't. I'm guessing that they're waiting for the tram to do it one hit. Other weaknesses are the complex, often inadequate frequencies and STA's refusal to publish timetables.

As for JJ's point that they stop at 8pm or so, well I got to agree that is poor in many cases but at least the M54 now runs until midnight and the 520 (on the M52 corridor) has been increased to run half hourly rather than hourly in the evenings. Why we have to put up with all stops and that ridiculous loop through West Ryde makes no sense of course - just increase the M52's operating hours. M60 to Pennant Hills would be another candidate. I don't think that the Pennant Hills interchange is too small to turn 6bph there as some have posted. Is it the straw that breaks the camel's back or something?
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby swtt » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:59 pm

simonl wrote:M60 to Pennant Hills would be another candidate. I don't think that the Pennant Hills interchange is too small to turn 6bph there as some have posted. Is it the straw that breaks the camel's back or something?


Pennant Hills interchange is a waste of time if only due to the traffic light phasing.

Unfortunately I can whinge about this one but not give a solution that would cost less than $10m. Maybe as the NorthConnex is built it will get better and more priority given to the buses entering/exiting the interchange?
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby simonl » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:43 pm

Been there plenty of times and I'm not sure what problem you are referring to?
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby moa999 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:25 pm

simonl wrote:I honestly can't understand why the Libs haven't reviewed some of the weaknesses in the formula, particularly the earlier through CBD routes which made little sense at the time and still don't. ?


But isn't that the point.
It avoids the need for CBD layovers of which there is limited space. And they travel on routes were traffic is frequently unreliable making a timetable more often than not useless anyway.

Whilst I hate the term, the frequency is enough for 'turn up and go' and lack of a timetable means you don't have a bus sitting at timing points when traffic is better than average, frustrating patrons.

And compared to when the services began you now have GPS tracking and more customers with access to it.

Personally I'd be happy to see more of these long cross town routes particularly where Opal data shows pax transfer.

GPS tracking and lack of timetables also brings the ability to dynamically reallocate buses to meet demand or avoid traffic issues
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby boronia » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:48 pm

I was a frequent user of the m10 (east) when it went into the CBD. But really it was just another bus service, which it shared along Anzac Pde with about 10 other routes. I'd simply catch the first bus to turn up. If I needed to go beyond Park St, I could get off at BAthurst St and get an almost instant transfer onto another CQ service. More often than not, the m10 would be trailing a group of crowded 39Xs, so ran at very low patronage levels.

If I did need to go on the western leg, I could wait for the next m10, or get a standard bus to Railway Sq and get plenty of choices from there (this option actually comes up as quicker in Tripfinders).

Similar circumstances would apply to the other original services. I don't know how you measure "success", but they do provide extra capacity along their routes, which has to be a good thing. Having access to apps these days, it is easy to see how far away they are, and whether it is worthwhile waiting for the next one.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Linto63 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:58 pm

simonl wrote:I honestly can't understand why the Libs haven't reviewed some of the weaknesses in the formula, particularly the earlier through CBD routes which made little sense at the time and still don't.
The through cbd routes allowed extra services with higher capacity vehicles to be introduced without the need to provide extra cbd layover space which was and remains at a premium.

simonl wrote:Other weaknesses are the complex, often inadequate frequencies and STA's refusal to publish timetables.
Timetables are published: https://transportnsw.info/documents/tim ... 171126.pdf Times are now also displayed at stops.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby boronia » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:14 pm

Not at all stops. They are usually not part of the main timetable displays, but may have a separate panel with "approximate" times on it.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby Linto63 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:25 pm

Pre the November timetable changes, stops tended to have a separate poster with frequencies but not times. Post the change, the Metrobus times have been included with other services in being listed, well certainly at cbd bus stops.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby boronia » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:38 pm

Not at Eddy Ave:
Eddy Ave TT (Small).jpg


I haven't looked at others yet
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby pgt » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:57 pm

boronia wrote:I haven't looked at others yet
The stops at Neutral Bay Junction (stand A) and Wynyard where the M20/30/40 stops do indeed show the times of those buses.
Some stops still get the Hastus (?) printouts (the STA generated ones) and those do not have the Metrobus route times on them (eg. Gore Hill).

(Edit - adding on what I was originally going to say)

Indeed I do think that once the tram/light rail starts up in the city, there will be some changes to the Metrobus routes that go through the city - it's anybody's guess as to what they are though.
When they first started up I'd somehow thought the Metrobus routes were meant to mimic/follow old tram corridors, which for some parts logically does make sense since that would be where the high passenger volumes are.
That was until they started adding on ones like the M52, M61 - at which point I just figured it to be another cross-city bus route, especially when they started to use the Metrobus routes as replacements for main corridor routes (eg. the Pacific Highway routes - in peak periods, now _only_ the M20 operates up to Gore Hill from Wynyard).
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby boronia » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:52 pm

It has already been announced that the m10 and m50 will be canned when LR starts. They are the only two directly affected.

But there could well be alterations to other services in nearby areas, which might affect the m20.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby mandonov » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:56 pm

It would make sense to have the through CBD routes run to the terminus roughly opposite from it's entry.
Eg. Drummoyne to Bondi Jct as a through east-west route. Following on from that: Leichhardt-Taronga Zoo, Sydenham-Chatswood, Botany-Lane Cove.

A different way to determine it could be to look at what cross town routes the Metrobus' roughly parallel. So you wouldn't send M40east to M10west because the 440 already serves that function.

Enhancing that Park Street interchange is important though. On Park Street itself I would move all Mxx routes to the stands that the William Street buses use to utilise relatively lightly used stops that are also the most convenient for transfers to other modes and corridors. First and foremost though is enhanced bus priority on Park St.
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Re: Metrobus a few years on: a success?

Postby mandonov » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:57 pm

boronia wrote:It has already been announced that the m10 and m50 will be canned when LR starts. They are the only two directly affected.

But there could well be alterations to other services in nearby areas, which might affect the m20.

Ah but it's only been said that they're canned in the eastern suburbs. So those arms of the Metrobus spider being cutoff could be the impetus for a full reshuffle.
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