[STA] B12BLE 1647

Stoney! · Post by **Stoney!** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:05 am

I rode the bus to work this morning (Parramatta) and I must say I was very happy to do so, I caught the 545 and it is far less Stressful than driving, and if you take into account having to park, it's quicker too, just a shame it isn't this easy to get to other places by public transport, and as easy for other people otherwise im sure I and others would use it more often.

1647 was not a bad ride actually, up changes while slowing were still noticably rough but much much better than they used to be, I have noticed though i think that the gearbox up changes to quick when coming to a hault, because the bus does A LOT of revving when it downchanges twice in the space of a second while slowing, causing it to jerk. Surely this could be easily rectified by Volvo.

The bus went ok, not struggling but not really climbing up a few hills, some only subtle, and downchanges while driving along were very smooth for a B12 with no sign of the usual grinding noises or anything. But I must say the compressors (I think thats what it is) are extremely loud in these, very noticable when sitting on the back seat listening to them cut in and out.... The buses themselves are very quiet otherwise, but because the compressor is on most of the driving time, they are a very loud bus inside. Apart from that I can only complain about the usuals (vibrations, braking) Much better ride than they used to be.

Stoney!

Windy · Post by **Windy** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:09 am

*rubs eyes* Nice work Stone Boy

I guess you're finally appreciating the fine art of Volvo *coff* praise! I guess your were suitably impressed this time around. I was on the 22.45 545 ex Parramatta which was a gas bus *yawn*, but we passed an artic which I assume was going to do the 2345 ex Parramatta... if only I did miss the gassie and go and take some train shots instead of riding the gassie. Why an artic would do the last 545 of the day has me beat. With the Volgren B12BLEs, I haven't ridden all that many, only 1 or 2 rides since my return to Sydney, and I didn't find them all that rough, a bit more boring because of the lack of Engine Brake rumble, but that was it. Shows how much character the VEB adds to the B12s though!

Stoney! · Post by **Stoney!** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:48 am

Yes it does add a heck of a lot of character, the one on this one wasn't working either so I'd hate to see it if it was......

Im still not overly impressed by them but the are MUCH better than they were before. I tried hard to praise it in my original post, but that is the ut most best you will get out of me lol. I don't hate volvos though as you know.... just despise them intensly lol, no.... I love the B7RLE so much character for a new bus, great sound, and acceleration to laugh at, but still a cool bus to ride.

but yeh....boring is right, all new buses are boring!

Stoney!

Windy · Post by **Windy** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:56 am

Stoney! wrote:Yes it does add a heck of a lot of character, the one on this one wasn't working either so I'd hate to see it if it was......

Im still not overly impressed by them but the are MUCH better than they were before. I tried hard to praise it in my original post, but that is the ut most best you will get out of me lol. I don't hate volvos though as you know.... just despise them intensly lol, no.... I love the B7RLE so much character for a new bus, great sound, and acceleration to laugh at, but still a cool bus to ride.

but yeh....boring is right, all new buses are boring!

Stoney!

I thought the Volgrens had their VEBs disconnected? I know the 2 new 6 speed B12s at Forest have had their retarders reconfigured because they were too harsh (and I think they were too, they had a massive load of bite... more than the STA ones - or was that what they were like when they were new?). They've since been rectified and the drivers haven't been complaining about them.

Not enthused with the new Ecolife transmission range from ZF either... noise reduction, quieter torque convertor, and then you have a loss of hub reduction axles from the operators who used them (Merc, M.A.N, Renault/Irisbus). Buses are definitely becoming more soul-less and more plastic. Definitely time to get focus more on the trains I think.

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:59 pm

Funny you should bring up the B12BLE Stoney as I got to sample what an 0500LE could do last night.
I caught a Transit first example on rail replacement and thought oh no one of these ,as I had ridden one from Strathfield once before and found it disappointing as far as entertainment value.
This was no different in that regard.The engine sounds like little more than a giant air pump under there and there was this strange rattle in the back where I was sitting.That would be an in service fault any bus could get I know.
However,this time I got to experience it in a much more extreme way thanks to a driver that put it through it's paces.
I got to see what it could do as it ascended the hill on Alfred St Milson's point from the base of the Harbour Bridge and I must say I was impressed by it's incredibly strong performance up that section.All seats had at least one person in them too.Quite amazing.I was thinking about it's supposed fuel economy at the same time and if the figures are dramatically lower than the Volvo as claimed,I can't help but be impressed by this bus.
I also noticed that it does have an exhaust brake too but not in the Volvo's league sound wise.
I have to disagree With Stoney's assessment on the Volvo's performance.They always go exteremely well whenever I have ridden them and I couldn't help noticing how smooth and quiet a Volgren unit I rode was.Loud inside??No way.
It is sad how relatively indescernable the Scania,Volvo and Merc low floors are today compared to a decade ago when they were imposssible to mix up.
At least Volvo's massive improvement in the character stakes goes someway toward compensating.

Stoney! · Post by **Stoney!** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:15 pm

Merc's don't have an exhaust brake, but i know exactly what you are talking about swift, i will have to find out what it is.

Yes the mercs are very smooth through the gears and they are quiet, I was unimpressed by the levels of noise coming from the volvo today, though only when the compressor was on and they all do it, when it was off it was super quiet.....

The mercs are getting a power upgrade soon from 252 HP to approx 299 HP and are adding a varibale geometry turbine instead of the single ones now applied, which gives much more grunt in the lower revvs yet works more economically. The O500's are renowned for their low fuel usage, I hope they keep it that way.

Stoney!

PoweredByCNG · Post by **PoweredByCNG** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:34 pm

A bit off-topic, but talking about the OC 500s, a source from within Mercedes-Benz has informed me that Sydney Buses' new OC 500 CNGs may be the first in Australia to receive the uprated M 447 hLAG Euro 5 natural gas engine, rated at 240 kW (326 hp) and 1250 Nm @ 1000-1400 rpm maximum torque.

Regards,
Dave

Simes · Post by **Simes** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:17 pm

PoweredByCNG wrote:A bit off-topic, but talking about the OC 500s, a source from within Mercedes-Benz has informed me that Sydney Buses' new OC 500 CNGs may be the first in Australia to receive the uprated M 447 hLAG Euro 5 natural gas engine, rated at 240 kW (326 hp) and 1250 Nm @ 1000-1400 rpm maximum torque.

Regards,
Dave

Double dutch to me, compared to either a CNG L113 or O405NH????

Would Tim the Toolman be in favour? (more power! rouff rouff)

And when will one actually materialise???

PoweredByCNG · Post by **PoweredByCNG** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:25 pm

Simes wrote:...compared to either a CNG L113 or O405NH????

There will be no comparison.

L113CRB CNG: 184 kW (250 hp) @ 2000 rpm, 1000 Nm @ 1100 rpm

O 405 NH CNG: 175 kW (238 hp) @ 2200 rpm, 880 Nm @ 1000 rpm

OC 500 CNG (a): 185 kW (252 hp) @ 2000 rpm, 1050 Nm @ 1000-1400 rpm

OC 500 CNG (b): 240 kW (326 hp) @ 2000 rpm, 1250 Nm @ 1000-1400 rpm

B12BLE: 250 kW (340 hp) @ 1900 rpm, 1200 Nm @ 1200 rpm

Both variants of the new Merc natural gas engine are more powerful than your current Scanias and Mercs. The 240 kW engine would probably be able to match it with the B12BLEs in terms of driveability.

Regards,
Dave

R-C · Post by **R-C** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:49 am

Simes

And when will one actually materialise???

They reckon Christmas 2006.

Knowing STA maybe Christmas 2066

AL · Post by AL » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:07 am

Hi all,

To add a bit of info to the B12 debate, I've been driving an assortment of B12 coaches with the 340HP and 380HP motors. They do have heaps of power, but I find the turbo setup too laggy. Once the turbo kicks in, it really surges with power, but could have really had a bit more in the lower rev range.

The VEB is quite a nasty piece of work in my eyes. There's basically three potential settings with the first two being rather useless and the third one way too rough. On maximum it kicks in quite hard at first and then suddenly turns off causing the whole bus to buck forward and backwards twice. I could imagine it would be absolutely horrible if matched to a ZF retarder and new disc brakes.

The B12's are actually my least favourite in the fleet because of the VEB. I'd much rather take an older B10M coach, 0404 or even better a VDL (DAF) coach out.

Stoney! · Post by **Stoney!** » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:41 am

Talking to a manager from another sydney private company on the weekend who operates B12BLE's and he said that he is getting between 47 and 52 L/100k's, not good at all. Recent Datafuel sheets show the O500's weighing in between 38 and 45, One as low as 36 if I recall correctly without going right through it again.... Bit of a comparison for yo swift. I remember after going out on a night rail shift once, constantly on the kickdown to stay on time and with standing loads (all standbys out) the bus averaged 38L/100k's, thouroughly impressed.

Yes you are right Allan, even though I have said that all before. The problem is to get the b12's to move off the mark you gotta keep on top of the rev range and to do that you need a kickdown switch, which volvo don't supply because then fuel econom would be outrageous, so in theory, you never do get to use 340 HP, because you cannot put your foot to the floor and get it to reach that level of revs where it builds up that much power.

They were simply a cheaply engineered chassis, I have been told that they go through a lot of brake pads with the exhaust brake setting low or on off, which isn't a god thing. As was said before, the VEB was installed into the B7RLE chassis so it could handle th extra weight from all the changes that were made so it could handle a 12 litre engine, unfortunatly this didn't include a beefier brakes!

Stoney!

Swift · Post by **Swift** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:52 pm

I have noticed the wheels on the STA B12BLEs are coated in blacl brake dust all the time.
It seems the only time you see them silver its when they have just been delivered.
Didn't someone mention on the board somewhere that some of the Volgren examples have had their exhaust brakes disconnected?
Wouldn't this action possibly present warranty issues and safety pwith stopping ability if they were designed to run with this setup?