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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby sunnyyan » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:34 pm

neilrex wrote:So, to go from platform 5 at Epping to platform 3 for a Northern line or Central Coast train, it is 3 escalators up and then another one down ?


Isn't it just two up escalators? There's one up to just below platform level where you can change for escalators to platform 1/2 or 3
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Swift » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:37 pm

sunnyyan wrote:
neilrex wrote:So, to go from platform 5 at Epping to platform 3 for a Northern line or Central Coast train, it is 3 escalators up and then another one down ?


Isn't it just two up escalators? There's one up to just below platform level where you can change for escalators to platform 1/2 or 3

Correct. You only need the third to reach the station entry concourse. There are elevators to all three levels if you can't be bothered with all that.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby swtt » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:41 pm

neilrex wrote:So, to go from platform 5 at Epping to platform 3 for a Northern line or Central Coast train, it is 3 escalators up and then another one down ?


Nope. Just two sets of escalators up: one to the interchange concourse, then straight up to platform 3.

Have you been to Epping?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby gilberations » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:55 pm

I would like to point out that you’re all forgetting that Waratah have fast acceleration and probably just as if not faster than the metro, but after customers complained, they put on an acceleration limiter. So stop with this single deck accelerates faster crap and accept that the only reason they did it was to save a few bucks on crew and tunnel width.


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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Swift » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:46 am

gilberations wrote:I would like to point out that you’re all forgetting that Waratah have fast acceleration and probably just as if not faster than the metro, but after customers complained, they put on an acceleration limiter..

That's utterly ridiculous. Those whinging are probably dills that won't hold on properly. I hope they stumble some other way!
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby gld59 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:57 pm

gilberations wrote:I would like to point out that you’re all forgetting that Waratah have fast acceleration and probably just as if not faster than the metro, but after customers complained, they put on an acceleration limiter. So stop with this single deck accelerates faster crap and accept that the only reason they did it was to save a few bucks on crew and tunnel width.

Waratah acceleration rates are not especially relevant in a mixed fleet. Timetables realistically have to be written for the slowest stock. Spare sets are nearly always the oldest and slowest types, so even if a line was meant to be purely A and B, writing a timetable for their performance would mean that swapping spares in caused further delays. Only once the K and C sets have all gone and the spare sets are all Ts would be possible to adjust timetables (to match T set performance).

Tunnel width had nothing to do with (tunnelling) costs. It was a deliberate decision to keep existing stock off the new line, to make it easier to justify keeping it away from CityRail / Sydney Trains.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby moa999 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:41 pm

And tunneling cost, and spoil removal cost, and spoil disposal cost and fleet costs.
All big $ items...

Oh and first Crows Nest breakthrough occured today with TBM Wendy.

Bunch of pics and vids on twitter.
Best video I've seen
https://twitter.com/lachlan_kennedy/status/1138976927199318016?s=19
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby grimlock81 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:42 pm

The constant complaints on social media since opening are that the air conditioning is too cold and the announcements are too loud (someone measured them at 100dB) and Sydney Metro have yet to fix either issue
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby neilrex » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:02 pm

when I caught it ( three rides now ), it was too cold. Next time I'll remember to take a thermometer to check.

I thought that the announcements were almost inaudible when the train was running. Loud enough when stopped.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby neilrex » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:45 am

Not sure if anyone else already reported this,

between Bella Vista and Kellyville, and between Kellyville and Rouse Hill, the top speed measured in both directions by gps was 99 km/hr.

Top speed between stations on north shore line usually reaches 74-79 km/hr
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby swtt » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:04 am

neilrex wrote:Not sure if anyone else already reported this,

between Bella Vista and Kellyville, and between Kellyville and Rouse Hill, the top speed measured in both directions by gps was 99 km/hr.

Top speed between stations on north shore line usually reaches 74-79 km/hr
Yes. It operates at up to 100 km/h.

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:19 am

I have found an interesting quirk while researching trip times. Macquarie University to Epping is covered in 3 mins in the Down direction and 5 minutes in the Up, while Epping to Cherrybrook is covered in 6 minutes Down and 4 minutes Up. So the overall trip balances out at 37 minutes both directions. Why the differences in these segments? Would it be gradients (though there isn't such a difference in the Chatswood-North Ryde segment which I would think has more severe gradients, though admittedly balanced gradients)?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby stupid_girl » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:11 am

tonyp wrote:I have found an interesting quirk while researching trip times. Macquarie University to Epping is covered in 3 mins in the Down direction and 5 minutes in the Up, while Epping to Cherrybrook is covered in 6 minutes Down and 4 minutes Up. So the overall trip balances out at 37 minutes both directions. Why the differences in these segments? Would it be gradients (though there isn't such a difference in the Chatswood-North Ryde segment which I would think has more severe gradients, though admittedly balanced gradients)?

I think it means 2 min stopping time at Epping for transfer.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Fri Jun 14, 2019 5:05 pm

stupid_girl wrote:I think it means 2 min stopping time at Epping for transfer.

I've been chewing over this and now wondering why they would want to hold trains at Epping for 2 mins when it is a frequent service. So the end to end trip is actually 35 minutes if the train isn't parked at Epping and has the same dwell at every station?

Edit: I guess a related question is, assuming that they were anticipating huge passenger turnovers at Epping so they allowed 2 minutes for it, has this in fact materialized? Anybody used Epping enough to see whether trains in fact take 2 mins to partly empty and partly fill? As the system is planned on max 30 second dwells, I would have thought one minute would be more than generous for a major passenger exchange.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Swift » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:22 pm

tonyp wrote:I've been chewing over this and now wondering why they would want to hold trains at Epping for 2 mins when it is a frequent service. So the end to end trip is actually 35 minutes if the train isn't parked at Epping and has the same dwell at every station?


Someone mentioned earlier that not as many people appear to be exchanging at Epping as forecasted, so why do they persist with such an excessive stopping time?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Transtopic » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:44 pm

Swift wrote:
tonyp wrote:I've been chewing over this and now wondering why they would want to hold trains at Epping for 2 mins when it is a frequent service. So the end to end trip is actually 35 minutes if the train isn't parked at Epping and has the same dwell at every station?


Someone mentioned earlier that not as many people appear to be exchanging at Epping as forecasted, so why do they persist with such an excessive stopping time?
Perhaps it hasn't yet become apparent to travellers from the North West that they could interchange at Epping to the Northern Line and get a faster journey to the CBD via the express CCN Intercity trains or be guaranteed a seat on the peak hour Epping starters.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby swtt » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:21 pm

Transtopic wrote:
Swift wrote:[quote="tonyp"]
I've been chewing over this and now wondering why they would want to hold trains at Epping for 2 mins when it is a frequent service. So the end to end trip is actually 35 minutes if the train isn't parked at Epping and has the same dwell at every station?


Someone mentioned earlier that not as many people appear to be exchanging at Epping as forecasted, so why do they persist with such an excessive stopping time?
Perhaps it hasn't yet become apparent to travellers from the North West that they could interchange at Epping to the Northern Line and get a faster journey to the CBD via the express CCN Intercity trains or be guaranteed a seat on the peak hour Epping starters.[/quote]It's faster to Central only if interchanging at Epping, but faster to Town Hall if interchanging at Chatswood.

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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby neilrex » Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:22 am

I am not comvinced that it has anything to do with interchanging.

At Hornsby, the Berowra via north shore line trains often used to arrive 2 minutes before the Wyong or Newcastle train, and then wait six minutes.

This enabled passengers ( if they were quick ) to transfer from the north shore line train to the central coast train, and also enables passengers from the central coast train to change to the all-stops to Berowra service.

This made sense with infrequent services. It makes no sense with frequent services at Epping.

I suspect a different cause for these long dwells at Epping. I suspect that the power supply is inadequate, and that trains are not allowed to depart from Epping until after the train preceding it has reached Cherrybrook. Or a signalling problem with the same effect.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Swift » Sat Jun 15, 2019 1:01 am

I vaguely recall on my two trips that trains were stopping for too long in stations besides Epping. Macquarie Park had a door glitch, so I won't count that.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby tonyp » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:27 am

I hardly think they would have built it with inadequate power supply. The reason would be that Chatswood and Epping are the two major interchange points so it has been deliberately planned to hold the trains longer at these stations. The length of the dwell doesn't show in the timetable at Chatswood because it's the terminus, plus there are separate platforms to split the dwell. I just think that they've made the dwell unnecessarily long at Epping.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:54 pm

I guess it had to happen soon https://transportnsw.info/alerts/details#/6035374
Saturday 22 and Sunday 23 June

Metro services will not run.
Buses replace Metro services between Tallawong and Chatswood.
Buses also replace T1 North Shore Line trains between Hornsby, Chatswood and Wynyard.
If you are travelling to or from the City please change at Epping, not Chatswood, for direct trains on the T9 Northern Line.
Plan your trip before you travel for up-to-date information.

Bus routes
11M: All stations Chatswood, North Ryde, Macquarie Park, Macquarie University, Epping, Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Hills Showground, Norwest, Bella Vista, Kellyville, Rouse Hill, Tallawong and return
12M (Limited stops): Chatswood, North Ryde, Epping, Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Hills Showground, Norwest, Bella Vista, Kellyville, Rouse Hill, Tallawong and return
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby neilrex » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:26 pm

Swift wrote:
gilberations wrote:I would like to point out that you’re all forgetting that Waratah have fast acceleration and probably just as if not faster than the metro, but after customers complained, they put on an acceleration limiter..

That's utterly ridiculous. Those whinging are probably dills that won't hold on properly. I hope they stumble some other way!


well one relevant difference, is that it is easier to stumble when the vehicle is accelerating and decelerating, if one is also trying to ascend or descend stairs at the same time. stairs are not present on the single deck trains. I was at platform 3 at town hall yesterday, 4 trains came and went as I was waiting for somebody else, and on every train, people getting off didn't even start to move from their seats until the train had stopped.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby swtt » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:37 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:I guess it had to happen soon https://transportnsw.info/alerts/details#/6035374
Saturday 22 and Sunday 23 June

Metro services will not run.
Buses replace Metro services between Tallawong and Chatswood.
Buses also replace T1 North Shore Line trains between Hornsby, Chatswood and Wynyard.
If you are travelling to or from the City please change at Epping, not Chatswood, for direct trains on the T9 Northern Line.
Plan your trip before you travel for up-to-date information.

Bus routes
11M: All stations Chatswood, North Ryde, Macquarie Park, Macquarie University, Epping, Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Hills Showground, Norwest, Bella Vista, Kellyville, Rouse Hill, Tallawong and return
12M (Limited stops): Chatswood, North Ryde, Epping, Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Hills Showground, Norwest, Bella Vista, Kellyville, Rouse Hill, Tallawong and return


21st Century Sydney - and this is happening on a brand new railway? Wouldn't you think they'd try to get it done during the non operational hours each night?
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby Fleet Lists » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:05 pm

This has also got me intrigued
https://transportnsw.info/alerts/details#/6035373 And the same the next week
Mon 17 Jun 22:00 - Tue 18 Jun 01:59
Tue 18 Jun 22:00 - Wed 19 Jun 01:59
Wed 19 Jun 22:00 - Thu 20 Jun 01:59
Thu 20 Jun 22:00 - Fri 21 Jun 01:59

Details
Monday 17 to Thursday 20 June
Nightly from 10pm until 2am

Due to trackwork on the T1 North Shore Line, if you are travelling to or from the City please change at Epping, not Chatswood, for direct trains to and from Central on the T9 Northern Line.
Plan your trip before you travel for up-to-date information.

I thought the Metro is not running during that time anyway on at least the first three nights each week to confuse things even further.
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Re: NSW Future Rail Plan - NWRL/Metro/Harbour Crossing

Postby swtt » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:14 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:This has also got me intrigued
https://transportnsw.info/alerts/details#/6035373 And the same the next week
Mon 17 Jun 22:00 - Tue 18 Jun 01:59
Tue 18 Jun 22:00 - Wed 19 Jun 01:59
Wed 19 Jun 22:00 - Thu 20 Jun 01:59
Thu 20 Jun 22:00 - Fri 21 Jun 01:59

Details
Monday 17 to Thursday 20 June
Nightly from 10pm until 2am

Due to trackwork on the T1 North Shore Line, if you are travelling to or from the City please change at Epping, not Chatswood, for direct trains to and from Central on the T9 Northern Line.
Plan your trip before you travel for up-to-date information.

I thought the Metro is not running during that time anyway on at least the first three nights each week to confuse things even further.
This seems to be just informing passengers to use the T9 instead of T1.

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