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Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beaches

Sydney / New South Wales Transport Discussion

Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby simonl » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:29 pm

Fleet Lists wrote:Route L85 is replaced by route 185.

A retrograde step.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby mandonov » Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:22 pm

simonl wrote:A retrograde step.

It's a positive step to have local routes feeding into the trunk line.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby gascoyne » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:52 pm

According to the Minister on http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/0 ... -australia the project cost is about half-a billion. How on earth do 38 buses at $650000 = $25 million plus some parking total $500 million?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:21 pm

gascoyne wrote:According to the Minister on http://www.9news.com.au/national/2017/0 ... -australia the project cost is about half-a billion. How on earth do 38 buses at $650000 = $25 million plus some parking total $500 million?


What about the new services that require drivers?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Stu » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:06 am

^
- continue to recruit.
- cancel drivers rdo's.
- N depot to loan drivers up north, other depots to loan to N depot and the loaning cycle continues.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby neilrex » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:56 am

mandonov wrote:
simonl wrote:A retrograde step.

It's a positive step to have local routes feeding into the trunk line.


However, it is a negative step to have the trunk line feeding into local routes.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby simonl » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:04 pm

mandonov wrote:
simonl wrote:A retrograde step.

It's a positive step to have local routes feeding into the trunk line.

That argument has zero merit unless the 185 is changing, even then I doubt I would agree.

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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby mandonov » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:40 pm

simonl wrote:That argument has zero merit unless the 185 is changing, even then I doubt I would agree.

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Perhaps research the actual changes before stating an opinion.

http://yoursay.b-line.transport.nsw.gov ... rvice-plan

  • Route 185 will be modified to operate between Mona Vale and Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road) only. Route 185 in the Samuel Street, Parkland Road and Waratah Street area will be replaced by route 182 which will be modified to operate in this area.
  • Route L85 will no longer operate, replaced by all-stops route 185 to Warringah Mall (Pittwater Road). For travel to the City connect with B-line services at Narrabeen.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby simonl » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:42 pm

Difficult on a phone.

Still, I would need a lot of convincing that such a change adds value. It will reduce the service quality for the those off the common part of the route for what? A modest saving in operational cost?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:28 am

Cuts to services. It's part of the Liberal party's religion! They pretend they are with us but are a very dishonest mob in reality.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby grog » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:52 am

I assume the reasoning is to have more people on fewer buses taking up less road space over the bridge and into the CBD, hence the deckers.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby tonyp » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:02 am

grog wrote:I assume the reasoning is to have more people on fewer buses taking up less road space over the bridge and into the CBD, hence the deckers.

Without wanting to sound like a fascist, I think there should be a blanket ban on any reference to buses (or trams) "taking up road space" on ATDB! This is really not what it's about. It's private cars that take up road space. Buses and trams move far more people within their footprint (no matter how big) than cars. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER TO APOLOGISE FOR THE ROAD SPACE TAKEN UP BY A BUS (sorry for shouting!). :wink:

Image

Double deckers are about seats, not footprints.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby grog » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:27 am

I'm 100% with you. I'm speculating on their motivations more than anything :)
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby tonyp » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:08 am

grog wrote:I'm 100% with you. I'm speculating on their motivations more than anything :)

I see what you mean but would the RMS really be bugging them about the extra 5 metres (1 car space) taken up by the occasional artic? There shouldn't be an issue with stop space either as all stops should be designed for artics.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby grog » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:10 am

I'm more thinking of the queues of buses on the bus lane over the bridge and into the Wynyard area - of which the correct solution is to either expand road space dedicated to buses or implement good interchange at Victoria Cross once the Metro is built. I can see how RMS would think that more people on smaller footprint buses would help though.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Swift » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:20 am

The RMS needs to look at the footprint three people in single occupant cars leave before complaining about a high capacity articulated bus. Maybe try and help from their side by giving buses a leg up with some proper priority to make or more attractive to fill the bus' footprint.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby grog » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:06 am

Once again, no argument here, I agree 100%
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Liamena » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:44 am

grog wrote:I'm more thinking of the queues of buses on the bus lane over the bridge and into the Wynyard area - of which the correct solution is to either expand road space dedicated to buses or implement good interchange at Victoria Cross once the Metro is built. I can see how RMS would think that more people on smaller footprint buses would help though.


Is that ridiculous bus queue mostly caused by the lights before Wynyard Park, or by the long dwell time of passengers getting off the bus ?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Rick R » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:37 pm

It's normally caused by traffic elsewhere in the city clogging up York & Margaret Sts. When traffic is quiet (lake the last three weeks) you can get a lot of buses coming in at the same time, which causes a bank up.

Wynyard generally doesn't suffer the horriffic bus tailbacks onto the Bridge since the set down arrangements started being changed in 2008.

tonyp wrote:THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER TO APOLOGISE FOR THE ROAD SPACE TAKEN UP BY A BUS (sorry for shouting!). :wink:

THAT'S OK!!!!!

Bus footprint becomes important where there is traffic and buses need to be able to manouvere, it's easy for an artic to block an entire intersection if the driver isn't carefull. Yard space is also an issue where strategicaly located depots are unable to be further expanded.
Enjoy.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby tonyp » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:07 pm

Liamena wrote:Is that ridiculous bus queue mostly caused .... by the long dwell time of passengers getting off the bus ?

If that's the case, deckers will only exacerbate that problem.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby flitter » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:13 pm

Swift wrote:Cuts to services. It's part of the Liberal party's religion! They pretend they are with us but are a very dishonest mob in reality.


Hmm, strange, I seem to have more services in the last few years... must be just lucky I guess :-)
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Frosty » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:15 pm

I must wonder what the dwell time of the deckers are versus the 1.5 door bendies but I reckon you can more people through just because of the smaller footprint of a 12m bus. Interestingly that MAN deckers are only 12m not the usual Australian standard of 12.5m.

Maybe to increase the capacity the Wynyard would help is that Metrobus services not stop at Lang Park and have Clarence St two way until Erskine St to allow for buses to set down on Clarence and York.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby swtt » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:58 pm

Frosty wrote:I must wonder what the dwell time of the deckers are versus the 1.5 door bendies but I reckon you can more people through just because of the smaller footprint of a 12m bus. Interestingly that MAN deckers are only 12m not the usual Australian standard of 12.5m.

Maybe to increase the capacity the Wynyard would help is that Metrobus services not stop at Lang Park and have Clarence St two way until Erskine St to allow for buses to set down on Clarence and York.

I remember when one of the Metrobus routes commenced, it actually skipped Lang Park.

It was either M20 or M30?
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby Richard290 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:48 pm

robert wrote:About a month after asking about the B-line's route number, the answer is no answer.
Hi there,
Thanks for taking the time to visit Your Say B-Line Northern Beaches and asking us a question.
You asked:
'Will the B-line have a route number?'
Our response has now been posted on the site.
Our response:
Hi Robert
Route number has not been confirmed as yet. We will inform community opportunely with regards this late this year 2017.
Thanks
~ Andrea

I would reckon an appropriate choice of number for the new B-Line service would be either a mnemonic route number - 100 or 111 - it fits into the metropolitan regional number scheme well with Northern Beaches routes being numbered 1xx, and the fact there are no currently assigned bus route numbers below 130.
IIRC, around the 90s and year 2000 there was in fact, a 100 service which operated to Dee Why from the City.
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Re: Northern Beaches BRT: B-Line to transform Northern Beach

Postby simonl » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:22 pm

flitter wrote:
Swift wrote:Cuts to services. It's part of the Liberal party's religion! They pretend they are with us but are a very dishonest mob in reality.


Hmm, strange, I seem to have more services in the last few years... must be just lucky I guess :-)

I can't see any significant difference between teams red and blue on this point.
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