The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Somewhere to discuss things that don't fit into other categories.

Moderator: busrider

User avatar
Andrew
Administrator
Posts: 6960
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: The People's Republic of Campbelltown

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by Andrew »

It should be Ecoboost G4 :P

I would like to drive one - the torque figure achieved from a 4 cylinder engine is nothing short of amazing.

My work is now getting diesel Mondeo though - so no more FALCHOOOONS
.
Job done.
chuboy
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:57 pm
Favourite Vehicle: The oldest in revenue service.
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by chuboy »

Albatross wrote: Of course, I admit this is probably just fanciful thinking, and the Falcon will become a FWD blandmobile with a pathetic AWD tacked on in a vain attempt to appease the masses. One can still hope however.
Yep, this is such a silly move, after all their large RWD sedan formula has never been selling better and is currently a big moneymaker for Ford.

Wait, sorry, that was backwards. The RWD large sedan (aka Falcon) has never sold worse and is losing money for Ford every day the factory stays open. Using multinational company money to keep a whole factory open to make cars whose only 'significant' market is a tiny country of ~20mil people... is just ludicrous business practice. I can't believe it's still open to be honest. I would say there are corporates in the Ford Head Office getting hounded every day to expedite the closure of the Falcon factory.

Here's a newsflash... nobody wants Falcodores any more. How many 'motoring enthusiasts' on this or any other forum have even bought one in the last 2 years? The formula is as old and stale as the phrase 'there's no replacement for displacement'.
User avatar
John
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:06 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by John »

To be honest, nobody really knows what will happen until Ford make an official announcement. The likely scenario, following in line with the One Ford strategy, is for the Taurus to become their global large car. The big question is whether production will continue in Australia and if it does, what will Ford produce at Broadmeadows. The factory would need to put together a strong business case in order for this to happen and look at export opportunities to get their volume up. Whilst there has been talk of adapting the new Mustang platform for use in the NG Falcon, one has to question if the Falcon will ever be part of the One Ford strategy and whether there would be sufficient volume there to support such a model. The Falcon (and Commodore) are fast becoming niche products in the private sector. Take away fleet and novated lease buyers and the extent of the situation becomes clear. Holden has had limited success with Commodore exports and with the VE being a mature product now (i.e. sales are in decline), manufacturing the Cruze locally was a smart move to pump volume back in to their factory in Adelaide.

I still believe the Falcon and Commodore offer excellent value for money - the amount of car you get for the price you pay is exceptional - but changing tastes has seen the SUV and sub-$25K segments boom and the large car market shrink. Private buyers are not buying large family sedans. My next door neighbours are a good example; the wife drives a SUV for carting the kids around in and hubby has a Mazda 3 used for his commute to and from work. The 3 usually sits on the front lawn on weekends.

In the 1990s, Ford Australia (probably under the direction of global HQ) tested the water with a front wheel drive "global" car by selling the Taurus alongside the Falcon. It flopped sales wise, as did the Mondeo which arrived with it. Ford dropped the Mondeo saying that the medium car segment was in decline, however the Mondeo would return in 2007 after skipping a generation. The Taurus was available in one specification level and was overpriced at around the $43,000 mark, however it was fully loaded with gadgets and was larger than the AU Falcon sedan. It was dropped after two years.

Ford has demonstrated recently that they are not afraid of making tough decisions in relation to closing plants. One only has to look at the situation unfolding in Europe right now where Ford have announced three plant closures in a week. Contrast that with GM who appears to be close to finalising a deal with unions to keep all Opel plants open until at least 2016. By 2016, the platforms that GM will co-develop with PSA Peugeot Citroen will be in production, which will no doubt lead to plant closures.
Keep Melbourne Moving.
User avatar
Derwent
Posts: 789
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:24 pm

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by Derwent »

I would seriously consider an Ecoboost if I could get one with a manual box.
No way no how with a poxy auto!!!
User avatar
B10BLE
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: C63 AMG Black
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by B10BLE »

Is it me, or is the ownership of Porsche Cayenne at an all time high? :shock:
I have seen 9 of these in one day. The most popular is the diesel V6, which some cashed up P players drive. I'm seeing more of the Porsche Cayenne than the Jeep Cherokee nowadays.
Contra la Luna
User avatar
Albatross
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: Around.

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by Albatross »

John wrote:To be honest, nobody really knows what will happen until Ford make an official announcement. The likely scenario, following in line with the One Ford strategy, is for the Taurus to become their global large car.
This would be absolute stupidity on Ford's behalf. Ford staffers have admitted that the Taurus will never fully be able to replace the Falcon. There sure as hell won't be a Taurus Ute seen on any worksite anytime soon! Also not to mention that the current Taurus is bigger, heavier and uses much more fuel than the Falcon does, and I can see replacing the Falcon with the Taurus going down like a lead baloon.
John wrote:The big question is whether production will continue in Australia and if it does, what will Ford produce at Broadmeadows. The factory would need to put together a strong business case in order for this to happen and look at export opportunities to get their volume up.
This one is interesting. As has been noted, the Ranger is selling gangbusters. I'm sure that Ford could cut some sweetheart deal where if they start manufacturing Rangers here they get preferential bidding on government fleet contracts. The Ranger platform could also, in theory provide the base for a continued Territory. I can't say I'd be thrilled at this though, for reasons I'll explain further Combine a Ranger-Territory with say a Mondeo or Focus locally manufactured, or at least locally assembled and you have a fairly viable factory.
John wrote:Whilst there has been talk of adapting the new Mustang platform for use in the NG Falcon, one has to question if the Falcon will ever be part of the One Ford strategy and whether there would be sufficient volume there to support such a model. The Falcon (and Commodore) are fast becoming niche products in the private sector. Take away fleet and novated lease buyers and the extent of the situation becomes clear. Holden has had limited success with Commodore exports and with the VE being a mature product now (i.e. sales are in decline), manufacturing the Cruze locally was a smart move to pump volume back in to their factory in Adelaide.
The VE is definately a mature product. The VF will be on the road in 6 months time. The 2014 Falcon will be hitting the streets in a bit over a year's time and I have seen a few "sneak peak" looks at it and I must say I am quite excited. For what it's worth, the styling definately has a look of "Mustang" to me. Point is, at this stage in the market cycle, we can't really make judgements about sales. I'm waiting until I see what happens in 2014 before I declare the Falcon dead and buried myself. Also on exports, Holden is doing quite well with their current exports to Asia and the Middle East, the Caprice PPV is a steady seller and all reports are that Americans are excited about the Chevrolet SS coming next year. Americans have tried the FWD blandmobile and they didn't like it. The winds are definately blowing in favour of RWD in the USA when you factor in Chrysler's main success in the past decade was the reintroduced 300C and it's stablemates the Dodge Charger and Challenger. Also Ford has started exports of the Territory to Thailand-we'll see where this goes, but for my money, I think we're doing pretty well given the $AUD is at an unnatural high of 1.00-1.05.
John wrote:I still believe the Falcon and Commodore offer excellent value for money - the amount of car you get for the price you pay is exceptional - but changing tastes has seen the SUV and sub-$25K segments boom and the large car market shrink. Private buyers are not buying large family sedans. My next door neighbours are a good example; the wife drives a SUV for carting the kids around in and hubby has a Mazda 3 used for his commute to and from work. The 3 usually sits on the front lawn on weekends.
I think it's funny when SUV driving people come out like "Falcons and Commodores are oversized gas guzzlers" when in fact their SUV's often use more than the Falcodore, if not in the official tests, then definately in the real world. A Falcodore is able to be a lot lower to the ground than a SUV, means it has a lot less air to push through. A Falcodore doesn't have the extra weight of an AWD system to cart around, which in the average SUV sees next to no use. I can quite comfortably fit 5 people plus luggage in my Commodore, whereas fitting 3 across the back of a Honda CR-V isn't something I enjoyed. People are attracted to SUV's for what I consider to be entirely negative reasons. They want to have the tough and rugged "image" of being a 4x4 driver, they want to enjoy the way the higher up driving position allows them to "lord it over" other motorists, they are obsessed with "image" and don't want to be seen in a Falcodore which would probably suit their needs better anyway. In this day and age though of scarce oil supplies I simply don't think replacing large sedans/station wagons with gas guzzling SUV's. It just isn't viable long term.

John wrote:In the 1990s, Ford Australia (probably under the direction of global HQ) tested the water with a front wheel drive "global" car by selling the Taurus alongside the Falcon. It flopped sales wise, as did the Mondeo which arrived with it. Ford dropped the Mondeo saying that the medium car segment was in decline, however the Mondeo would return in 2007 after skipping a generation. The Taurus was available in one specification level and was overpriced at around the $43,000 mark, however it was fully loaded with gadgets and was larger than the AU Falcon sedan. It was dropped after two years.
I'll bet good money they flop again. Nothing really has changed over the past 15 years. For the most part, people don't really want FWD cars. Most of the US manufacturers have learned this. Chrysler learned it the very hard way as did GM. Ford is learning it the hard way too. They had a virtual licence to print money with the Crown Vic/Panther Platform models that they gave up. Imagine what it would have been like had they have actually updated the Crown Vic instead of just rehashing a 1979 chassis into the 2000's.
John wrote:Ford has demonstrated recently that they are not afraid of making tough decisions in relation to closing plants. One only has to look at the situation unfolding in Europe right now where Ford have announced three plant closures in a week. Contrast that with GM who appears to be close to finalising a deal with unions to keep all Opel plants open until at least 2016. By 2016, the platforms that GM will co-develop with PSA Peugeot Citroen will be in production, which will no doubt lead to plant closures.
Europe isn't Australia. I daresay the main reason behind their plant closures is related to the massive recession they are going through. People aren't buying cars in Europe. People really aren't buying anything in Europe.

To answer Chuboy's question, I brought a Commodore just over a year ago. It wasn't new but then again I had $4,000 to spend on a car not $40,000. If I did have $40,000 to spend on a car. I know a few people who have brought new SS Commodores and XR Falcons in the past few years. They definately are still selling to some people.
User avatar
Andrew
Administrator
Posts: 6960
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 6:02 pm
Location: The People's Republic of Campbelltown

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by Andrew »

http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/10/30/gal ... ar-launch/ - Nissan's V8 Supercar for next year launched. I don't particularly like the livery, but the car itself looks quite sexy.
.
Job done.
User avatar
kitkat271
Posts: 3804
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:31 am
Favourite Vehicle: Double decker buses
Location: Somewhere in Sydney

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by kitkat271 »

John wrote:The likely scenario, following in line with the One Ford strategy, is for the Taurus to become their global large car.
Albatross wrote:This would be absolute stupidity on Ford's behalf. Ford staffers have admitted that the Taurus will never fully be able to replace the Falcon. There sure as hell won't be a Taurus Ute seen on any worksite anytime soon! Also not to mention that the current Taurus is bigger, heavier and uses much more fuel than the Falcon does, and I can see replacing the Falcon with the Taurus going down like a lead baloon.
Yeah but bear in mind Australia is a teeny weeny market for Ford worldwide, and hard to justify spending R&D dollars on such a small market. I'm sure Ford's done the sums on the return on investment of developing a new Falcon vs importing slightly tweaked Taurus vs a locally built Taurus (scenarios with and without govvie assistance, and probably build in the fact that the Taurus sales will tank). I'm willing to bet the numbers will still favour importing a Taurus.

As to the ute - does the Falcon ute do anything that a Ranger doesn't? Apart from the image thing ...

I'm beginning to wonder if Ford can morph itself into a company which sells some pretty decent imported cars - something Holden should probably have done years ago with the Opel range and resisted going Daewoo ...

After all, Ford has the lovely European Fiesta / Focus / Kuga / Mondeo range, plus the Ranger. Does Ford really need another large car locally?

Unlike the Holden with the Commodore halo, I think Ford has a noose tied around its neck in the form of the Falcon - ie it will always be known as a downmarket company. And they don't have another badge to throw on the good European stuff.
Andrew wrote:Nissan's V8 Supercar for next year launched. I don't particularly like the livery, but the car itself looks quite sexy.
[/quote]

I thought this was just a launch livery - IIRC the Kelly Racing team will continue to be supported by Jack Daniel's - so the cars should still be black next year.
User avatar
John
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:06 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by John »

Albatross wrote:I'll bet good money they flop again. Nothing really has changed over the past 15 years. For the most part, people don't really want FWD cars. Most of the US manufacturers have learned this. Chrysler learned it the very hard way as did GM. Ford is learning it the hard way too. They had a virtual licence to print money with the Crown Vic/Panther Platform models that they gave up. Imagine what it would have been like had they have actually updated the Crown Vic instead of just rehashing a 1979 chassis into the 2000's.
The top selling passenger cars in the USA are front wheel drive. Likewise in Australia, whilst the Holden Commodore remains in the top 10, vehicles like the Mazda 3, Toyota Corolla and Holden Cruze are all front wheel drive and sell in large numbers. The 3 and Corolla have toppled the Commodore in sales in recent times.

Car enthusiasts prefer and want RWD cars. The mass market want something that gets them from A to B and fits in to their budget. The mass market could not care which wheels drive the car. Incidentally, the USA is fairly front wheel drive dominated because drivers find them easier to handle in the snow and ice.
kitkat271 wrote:Yeah but bear in mind Australia is a teeny weeny market for Ford worldwide, and hard to justify spending R&D dollars on such a small market. I'm sure Ford's done the sums on the return on investment of developing a new Falcon vs importing slightly tweaked Taurus vs a locally built Taurus (scenarios with and without govvie assistance, and probably build in the fact that the Taurus sales will tank). I'm willing to bet the numbers will still favour importing a Taurus.

As to the ute - does the Falcon ute do anything that a Ranger doesn't? Apart from the image thing ...

I'm beginning to wonder if Ford can morph itself into a company which sells some pretty decent imported cars - something Holden should probably have done years ago with the Opel range and resisted going Daewoo ...

After all, Ford has the lovely European Fiesta / Focus / Kuga / Mondeo range, plus the Ranger. Does Ford really need another large car locally?

Unlike the Holden with the Commodore halo, I think Ford has a noose tied around its neck in the form of the Falcon - ie it will always be known as a downmarket company. And they don't have another badge to throw on the good European stuff.
And investment in producing products for a teeny weeny market is something the One Ford policy is aiming to stop.

I do not wish to see Ford close their factory here, but one thing people must come to terms with is that the Commodore and Falcon do not have a future unless they are to become global products. Even Holden has admitted in the media recently that the Cruze is locked in past 2016 and that the second product line they build alongside it is unlikely to be a Commodore but possibly a SUV. The VF Commodore will consign the Commodore to history, simple as that.

The Australian car industry is very different to 15 years ago. Locally produced products are no longer the best sellers and with free trade agreements and lower tariffs, we have more "import" brands than ever competing for a slice of what is a very small market. The large car segment has shrunk. Mitsubishi has become a full importer, closing their Adelaide facility and ceasing production of the 380. I can remember people saying Mitsubishi would never close up, but they did. They delayed the inevitable for many years, but d-day eventually came because sales were in decline and the 380 had no export program.
Keep Melbourne Moving.
User avatar
B10BLE
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: C63 AMG Black
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by B10BLE »

I sometimes find that cars on the market in Australia a pure rip off. For example, a 2010 Ford Shelby GT500 in America roughly costs $US47,000 while here it's at an insane $AU157,000 * :shock: :roll:

* Car Sales website

What I want to know is why are cars so friggen over priced here?!?
Contra la Luna
User avatar
Albatross
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: Around.

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by Albatross »

Holden's recent statement was ambigous to say the least. They said they would be continuing with having two production lines, and that the Cruze would be produced on one of them. They then stated they were considering a SUV based on the Cruze platform. It hasn't been confirmed, and indeed as the car hasn't even been developed yet, if this Cruze based SUV will be built on the same production line as the Cruze or if it will take the other line away from the Commodore. It is possible to build two separate cars but related models on the same production line, Holden build the Caprice, Commodore sedans and wagons as well as Utes all on the same line at this very time not to mention the two bodystyles of the Cruze. I doubt Holden would be doom and gloom talking about the Commodore with the VF coming in the coming months, not to mention the fact that Holden will be resuming exports to the US with the VF. The Commodore is a global product nowadays being available in left and right hand drive, with exports to Asia, the Middle East and the US. Ford has also shown some signs of a desire to export, with the recent export of a small batch of Territories to Thailand. Hopefully this trend will continue into the future.

Yes, the US is heavily front wheel drive, and yes a large portion of the market doesn't care if it's front, rear or all wheel drive, although some do-anybody who ever tows a trailer will want rear or all wheel drive, and Subaru has had quite good luck with their all wheel drive marketing campaign. There remains a not insignifigant market for a vehicle that is specifically RWD.

In short I don't think it's time to go declaring either Falcon or Commodore dead yet, especially Commodore with the Chevy SS export planned for next year. I have read literally hundreds of reports of visiting Americans saying "If the Falcon/Commodore was exported to the US, they'd sell by the thousand" so next year, we will have the opportunity to see how true this is. I have a hunch Ford will be watching the reception the SS recieves rather closely as well.

I also don't think the experience of Mitsubishi is in any way an indication of what will happen to any of the local manufacturers. Mitsubishi were always the weakest of the 4 local manufacturers, It suffered in a way from having the worst bits of the "Falcodore" and the Camry put together with few of the best bits of either.

To answer KitKat's question, in a sentence, the Falcon ute really only offers two things the Ranger doesn't, it's a "car" not a "truck" and it has a rather powerful engine even in base forms. Other than that, it does little that the Ranger can't.
User avatar
kitkat271
Posts: 3804
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:31 am
Favourite Vehicle: Double decker buses
Location: Somewhere in Sydney

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by kitkat271 »

Albatross wrote:Yes, the US is heavily front wheel drive, and yes a large portion of the market doesn't care if it's front, rear or all wheel drive, although some do-anybody who ever tows a trailer will want rear or all wheel drive, and Subaru has had quite good luck with their all wheel drive marketing campaign. There remains a not insignifigant market for a vehicle that is specifically RWD.
Yes Albatross there is a market for everything ... the question is not how big the market is, but how much money you can make out of serving that market given the huge R&D costs involved. (and whether the R&D budget is best spent elsewhere)
Albatross wrote:I have read literally hundreds of reports of visiting Americans saying "If the Falcon/Commodore was exported to the US, they'd sell by the thousand" so next year, we will have the opportunity to see how true this is.
Well anything will sell by the many, many thousands in the US given the huge size of that market! The Pontiac GTO/G8 did just that ...

I've read the magazine reviews of the Commodores exported to the US - the words "bland muscle car" seems to be across all of the reviews, whilst they praise the power and handling, but there's question marks over the low-grade design/quality of the interior, and they think the Commodore shape is extremely boring.
User avatar
John
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:06 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by John »

kitkat271 wrote:Well anything will sell by the many, many thousands in the US given the huge size of that market! The Pontiac GTO/G8 did just that ...

I've read the magazine reviews of the Commodores exported to the US - the words "bland muscle car" seems to be across all of the reviews, whilst they praise the power and handling, but there's question marks over the low-grade design/quality of the interior, and they think the Commodore shape is extremely boring.
The G8 sold poorly. In the months that it did sell well, you only had to look at the amount of incentives on the cars and you can then appreciate why it sold. The US publish information in relation to the level of incentives that each brand has on their vehicles.

It will be interesting to see how the Commodore sells badged as a Chevrolet this time. I have read some reports that suggest it was a mistake to badge the thing as a Pontiac in the past, however I still think that it is a niche product and will only sell in limited numbers regardless of what it is badged as.

The new model may lead to a resurgence in demand in the Middle East. I do not believe the Commodore will ever have mass appeal to the Asia market; the WM Caprice derived Daewoo Veritas was pulled from the Korean market within two and a half years of going on sale. I believe the Buick Park Avenue, which is assembled in China using a CKD kit, is still on sale.
Keep Melbourne Moving.
scott
Posts: 1262
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:18 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by scott »

Holden have announced the axing of about 170 jobs in Adelaide, due to the decline in Commodore and Cruze sales. The Cruze has not been competitive against the imports due to the high Australian dollar, which is making the imports cheaper.

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/h ... 28pa9.html
User avatar
John
Posts: 735
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:06 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by John »

scott wrote:Holden have announced the axing of about 170 jobs in Adelaide, due to the decline in Commodore and Cruze sales. The Cruze has not been competitive against the imports due to the high Australian dollar, which is making the imports cheaper.

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/h ... 28pa9.html
Made tough for them no doubt with the announcement of the new Corolla and Pulsar both starting at $19,990.

I just did a quick inflation calculation - $19,990 in the year 2002 is now worth close to $26,000 in today's money. Combine that with all of the kit you now get for $20,000 in a car today and it goes to show how cars have never been more value for money. There are also so many incentives such as fixed priced servicing and low finance rates that make new car ownership more accessible for consumers.

The situation facing local manufacturing is not helped by reduced tariffs and free trade agreements with countries such as Thailand. The free trade agreements are not really two way either; I understand Thailand puts a 60% tariff on vehicles with an engine size greater than 3.0 litres. I believe that was penned just as the ink was drying on the free trade agreement, obviously aimed at Australia.

One thing the reduction in tariffs has done is allow more importers to sell vehicles at competitive prices in Australia, particularly in the lower priced segments. A win for consumers but it puts local manufacturing under pressure, particularly when the Australian dollar is strong. The idea of reducing the amount of protection on locally produced cars was to force manufacturers to lift their game when it came to quality, as they are effectively left to compete on their own merits with imports. The big gripe I have with this is source countries that Australia have reduced the barriers for impose tariffs and put up barriers in order to protect their own car industries (e.g. Thailand). Brazil, for example, lifted their tariff on imports which effectively killed off a small, but promising, export program that Holden had started up.
Keep Melbourne Moving.
User avatar
eddy
Posts: 3756
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:18 am
Contact:

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by eddy »

If you have 4 kids the problem is that there is only a choice of a five seater with not enough seats, a four wheel drive that adults cannot sit in the rear or a people mover that is hard to park due to the long wheelbase.

I am sure there would be a market for the very cheap six seat Parrahub sixpack http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... revstart=0 for local use and export.

Ford sent me an email saying they are not interested so how about Holden developing it now they are doing it tough.

There is always talk about innovation but not much action, we cannot compete with other carmakers with conventional expensive vehicles.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
chuboy
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:57 pm
Favourite Vehicle: The oldest in revenue service.
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by chuboy »

Are you having a laugh?
User avatar
eddy
Posts: 3756
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:18 am
Contact:

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by eddy »

As I am definitely not a motoring enthusiast I should not have commented on this thread.
In my opinion all new cars and motorbikes should be speed limited to 130 kph to eliminate police pursuits.

EDIT
If someone needs to have an exemption so they can race off road they would have to have a clean licence and apply.
Last edited by eddy on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
chuboy
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:57 pm
Favourite Vehicle: The oldest in revenue service.
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by chuboy »

Bit unfair to people who don't use the cars on public roads, isn't it?

Also, doing 100 in a 60 zone is still speeding and is more dangerous than doing 135 in a 110 zone.
User avatar
B10BLE
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: C63 AMG Black
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by B10BLE »

Meanwhile in Queensland, Cruising is considered Hooning.

I strongly disagree

This link might work.... http://facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3777 ... 0178856250

Let's laugh at Queensland. :roll:

Photo credit: street-cover.com's Facebook page.
Contra la Luna
User avatar
Albatross
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: Around.

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by Albatross »

John wrote: The situation facing local manufacturing is not helped by reduced tariffs and free trade agreements with countries such as Thailand. The free trade agreements are not really two way either; I understand Thailand puts a 60% tariff on vehicles with an engine size greater than 3.0 litres. I believe that was penned just as the ink was drying on the free trade agreement, obviously aimed at Australia.

One thing the reduction in tariffs has done is allow more importers to sell vehicles at competitive prices in Australia, particularly in the lower priced segments. A win for consumers but it puts local manufacturing under pressure, particularly when the Australian dollar is strong. The idea of reducing the amount of protection on locally produced cars was to force manufacturers to lift their game when it came to quality, as they are effectively left to compete on their own merits with imports. The big gripe I have with this is source countries that Australia have reduced the barriers for impose tariffs and put up barriers in order to protect their own car industries (e.g. Thailand). Brazil, for example, lifted their tariff on imports which effectively killed off a small, but promising, export program that Holden had started up.
So basically it's free trade for us, and protectionism for them. We lose our automotive industry but instead we save a few thousand dollars on new cars. So far as I'm concerned, that's a pretty bad deal for us.

I have known for a long time that Asian countries are not the easiest markets to import a vehicle into, be it through outright protectionism, or quasi protectionism as you mentioned in Thailand, or as the Japanese do, by setting their rules in such a fashion that potential imports will face difficulty meeting them eg the 1700mm width limit.

Why do we follow the rules of "Free Trade" and allow imports, allow our manufacturing sector to be absolutely trashed, when foreign nations will not allow us to export our products to them? Why should we be banned from protecting our industries, while other nations continue to do so themselves?
scott
Posts: 1262
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:18 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by scott »

The Toyota Camry was the top selling Australian made car in October, and 2nd top selling car overall.

Toyota have sold 177,000 vehicles year to date.

The last time the Camry was the top selling local was in January 1995 when it was up against the VR Commodore, EF Falcon and the TS Magna, in it's wide body guise.

And there are plenty of those 1994/95 Camry's still on the roads in pretty good nick.
User avatar
ben73
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:32 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by ben73 »

scott wrote:
To kick off- Nissan's all new Patrol http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/f ... 25rpz.html

Bloody expensive with a price range from $85,000 to $115,000 (estimated), but the toffs who live in Brighton, Toorak and Double Bay would probably like it. No diesels in the new range, the previous series Patrol will remain on sale in diesel only form with the trusty ZD30 powerplant (some people call it the grenade as some of these engines are known to self destruct)
I would buy a New Patrol in a heartbeat. But I can't justify spending 85k+ on a car.
Large, black, v8 petrol, 4WD, That is like my dream. Throw a nice set of black wheels on it and I would happily own it.
Something about a big black 4x4 I like. They look great.

My next "beatabout" second vehicle will be a black 4WD with a v8. I'm thinking Ford Explorer 2002+ model.
I will not use it as my daily drive.
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 200 character limit
User avatar
VivalaBuses
Posts: 1193
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:50 pm
Favourite Vehicle: Scania K310UB, Volvo B7RLE
Location: Where buses in TfNSW livery run!

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by VivalaBuses »

Albatross wrote:So basically it's free trade for us, and protectionism for them. We lose our automotive industry but instead we save a few thousand dollars on new cars. So far as I'm concerned, that's a pretty bad deal for us.

I have known for a long time that Asian countries are not the easiest markets to import a vehicle into, be it through outright protectionism, or quasi protectionism as you mentioned in Thailand, or as the Japanese do, by setting their rules in such a fashion that potential imports will face difficulty meeting them eg the 1700mm width limit.

Why do we follow the rules of "Free Trade" and allow imports, allow our manufacturing sector to be absolutely trashed, when foreign nations will not allow us to export our products to them? Why should we be banned from protecting our industries, while other nations continue to do so themselves?
Wrong there Albatross. Australia's automotive industry is actually quite protected compared to other domestic manufacturing industries. There is an 85% local content rule on all Australian built vehicles. In fact, most Australian built vehicles go beyond 85%, and so the car makers are able to receive a reduced tariff on imported vehicles (yes, there are tariffs on imported vehicles!). The bottom line is that it costs more to get things built here than overseas, especially Asian countries, and you can thank the unions for that. Australia's manufacturing is largely inefficient and unproductive, except for products produced for niche markets. These are the facts Albatross, I'm sorry if they hurt your patriotism for this great country.
Time for a new signature!
User avatar
Albatross
Posts: 371
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: Around.

Re: The Motoring Thread- for the motoring enthusiasts here

Post by Albatross »

They are not "the facts", what you have presented is a mixture of fact and opinion, juxtaposed in such a fashion that the two become virtually inseperable.

The tarriffs on imported vehicles are currently 5%, having been cut from 10% recently. That's a pretty piss poor form of protectionism and really only serves as a revenue raising tax for the government. Bear in mind that Australian car manufacturers have to pay various forms of taxation on their local activities, even if they do get some/all/more than they pay back in subsidies.

No, it's not the union's "fault" it costs more to build a car here than it does in Asia. Cars cost more to be built here because we won't work for $5 a day like people in Asia will. We actually demand a level of pay that's enough to live on. You may think this is a bad thing, I don't. In fact, if anything, I as you so eloquently put it do thank the unions for that.
Post Reply

Return to “The Lunch Room”