FORD OR HOLDEN???
Moderator: busrider
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
I was in my local Holden dealership today and managed to get a good look at the Holden Cruze CDX. I could have seen the SRI if I really wanted to but as I was just sticky-beaking I didn't want to waste the salesman's time. I did pick up a brochure though.
It's a nice car. In this day and age of 1.50 a litre petrol it's a really nice car. I found it roomy and comfortable to sit in, although I wouldn't want to have to sit in the back with me in the driver's seat-although credit to Holden for making the seat able to go a long way back for those who need it to.
The car has a very nice and modern look to the interior. If I was in the market for a new car the Cruze would definately be on my list. In all honesty I would say at first glance I prefer the Cruze to the Commodore even, and that's saying something coming from me.
It's a nice car. In this day and age of 1.50 a litre petrol it's a really nice car. I found it roomy and comfortable to sit in, although I wouldn't want to have to sit in the back with me in the driver's seat-although credit to Holden for making the seat able to go a long way back for those who need it to.
The car has a very nice and modern look to the interior. If I was in the market for a new car the Cruze would definately be on my list. In all honesty I would say at first glance I prefer the Cruze to the Commodore even, and that's saying something coming from me.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
The Cruze, in my opinion is one of the best small cars in it's class. With the high petrol prices it is a great alternative to the Commodore and it is a newer, more modern design.
We have a number of Cruzes(locally built JH series units) on fleet at work, in a mixture of 1.8 litre petrol and the 2.0L Diesel (both in CD trim), the Diesel is the pick of the range, it is so responsive and drives very well and matches up well with the auto. Tthe 1.8 litre is a competent motor, no great ball of fire, but it gets the job done and handles metropolitan traffic with ease. It has electronic power steering too, which means it is as light as a feather. We have had no warranty issues as yet (the newest one is just one month old- 1/12 build date, 3/12 delivered), we have had one of our VEII's back with persistent issues related to the touch screen and climate control. It feels just as big inside as a Commodore and four adults can travel with ease. The interior is modern and classy and a step above the Commodore, and all for in price tag in around the mid 20,000 bracket.
Holden have also introduced capped price servicing, see the links below for conditions and pricing- you will need Acrobat to view them.
http://www.holden.com.au/resources/docu ... itions.pdf
http://www.holden.com.au/resources/docu ... ricing.pdf
$335 is quite exxy for the Diesel Cruze- The Cruze service booklet lists 1.2 hours labour for the diesels- must be expensive oil and parts required. Commodore LPG is $265 but I do not have a LPG Commodore service booklet in my reference library/collection at the moment so I do not know how much labour is involved.
Interesting they have revived the old Holdenwise branding for the aftersales service. It pays to be Holdenwise, even if it does cost an arm and a leg.
We have a number of Cruzes(locally built JH series units) on fleet at work, in a mixture of 1.8 litre petrol and the 2.0L Diesel (both in CD trim), the Diesel is the pick of the range, it is so responsive and drives very well and matches up well with the auto. Tthe 1.8 litre is a competent motor, no great ball of fire, but it gets the job done and handles metropolitan traffic with ease. It has electronic power steering too, which means it is as light as a feather. We have had no warranty issues as yet (the newest one is just one month old- 1/12 build date, 3/12 delivered), we have had one of our VEII's back with persistent issues related to the touch screen and climate control. It feels just as big inside as a Commodore and four adults can travel with ease. The interior is modern and classy and a step above the Commodore, and all for in price tag in around the mid 20,000 bracket.
Holden have also introduced capped price servicing, see the links below for conditions and pricing- you will need Acrobat to view them.
http://www.holden.com.au/resources/docu ... itions.pdf
http://www.holden.com.au/resources/docu ... ricing.pdf
$335 is quite exxy for the Diesel Cruze- The Cruze service booklet lists 1.2 hours labour for the diesels- must be expensive oil and parts required. Commodore LPG is $265 but I do not have a LPG Commodore service booklet in my reference library/collection at the moment so I do not know how much labour is involved.
Interesting they have revived the old Holdenwise branding for the aftersales service. It pays to be Holdenwise, even if it does cost an arm and a leg.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
I wouldn't say the Cruze has exactly the same space as the Commodore-like I said, with the drivers seat set as far back as it can go the rear seat passenger really draws the short straw but it's still a pretty nice car. I'm inclined to agree about it being better looking than the Commodore-I'm really not a fan of the VE...
Only thing I don't like is no diesel or 1.8 petrol in the SRI-IMHO car companies should give you a choice in engine across the range. I'd understand not offering the 1.8 litre but I'd prefer the diesel over a 1.4 turbo.
The Rodeo and Captiva Diesel both have higher servicing costs than their respective petrol models as well-It would be interesting to see what sort of oil and other consumables are specified for them.
Only thing I don't like is no diesel or 1.8 petrol in the SRI-IMHO car companies should give you a choice in engine across the range. I'd understand not offering the 1.8 litre but I'd prefer the diesel over a 1.4 turbo.
The Rodeo and Captiva Diesel both have higher servicing costs than their respective petrol models as well-It would be interesting to see what sort of oil and other consumables are specified for them.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
according to the Cruze handbook, the oil spec for the diesel is 5W30 with alternative viscosities 03-30 or 5W40, Dexos 2 meets the 5W30 spec and is the recommended oil to use and it is the factory fill. Probably would not be cheap. Oil capacity 6.2 litres
see http://www.acdelco.com.au/dexos2.html
Other equivalents:-
CASTROL MAGNATEC PROFESSIONAL MP 5W-30 orCASTROL EDGE PROFESSIONAL OE-X 5W-30
MOBIL 1 ESP FORMULA 5W-30 or MOBIL SUPER 3000 XE 5W-30
I wonder if the capped price is for the Dexos oil or whatever equivalent brand of oil the dealer uses.
see http://www.acdelco.com.au/dexos2.html
Other equivalents:-
CASTROL MAGNATEC PROFESSIONAL MP 5W-30 orCASTROL EDGE PROFESSIONAL OE-X 5W-30
MOBIL 1 ESP FORMULA 5W-30 or MOBIL SUPER 3000 XE 5W-30
I wonder if the capped price is for the Dexos oil or whatever equivalent brand of oil the dealer uses.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
I read an article in the Herald Sun Car Guide yesterday on the Ford Territory, by Graham Smith, he was saying buying a used Territory is risky, with all the ball joint issues and brake problems, also the diff bushes and the ZF transmissions, which can cost $6,000+ to replace, but can be repaired by a transmission specialist for much less.
- huppypuppy
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Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Hate to reignite old fire here!
Subaru Outback or Forester 2.0D for me now - love the sweet sound of the Boxer Diesel engine! Either of those or a new Ford Territory TCDi Titanium AWD!
Subaru Outback or Forester 2.0D for me now - love the sweet sound of the Boxer Diesel engine! Either of those or a new Ford Territory TCDi Titanium AWD!
Love the new Custom Denning vehicles
Including the Adventurer School Bus
And the Endeavour Low Floor
And the new Element 100% Electric Bus - the first Aussie BEV bus
Including the Adventurer School Bus
And the Endeavour Low Floor
And the new Element 100% Electric Bus - the first Aussie BEV bus
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
The new Territories are OK, just the 2004-09 ones are the ones that need to be bought with caution. The TDCi's are great, they use the Lion V6 diesel sourced via Land Rover.
- huppypuppy
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Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
As well as the 6R80 6 speed automatic transmission (which is ZF's 6HP28) - the petrol versions (the standard RWD models) still use the 6HP26 6 speed auto.... I have listened to a diesel Territory and it is so hard to know it is running unless you're standing right on top of it!scott wrote:The new Territories are OK, just the 2004-09 ones are the ones that need to be bought with caution. The TDCi's are great, they use the Lion V6 diesel sourced via Land Rover.
Love the new Custom Denning vehicles
Including the Adventurer School Bus
And the Endeavour Low Floor
And the new Element 100% Electric Bus - the first Aussie BEV bus
Including the Adventurer School Bus
And the Endeavour Low Floor
And the new Element 100% Electric Bus - the first Aussie BEV bus
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Both Ford and Holden really only take four adults and if you have a child seat, booster or baby capsule fitted then you have to remove them if you need the space.
Four wheel drives really only take small kids in the back and are hard to get very little ones in and out and front wheel drive people movers are too hard to park and cab over are not as safe
I am sure that there would be a market for a cheap economical front wheel drive car with six full sized seats with lap sash belts that can be parked as easy as a small car.
This is not pretty but i think there would be a demand for it http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... revstart=0
Four wheel drives really only take small kids in the back and are hard to get very little ones in and out and front wheel drive people movers are too hard to park and cab over are not as safe
I am sure that there would be a market for a cheap economical front wheel drive car with six full sized seats with lap sash belts that can be parked as easy as a small car.
This is not pretty but i think there would be a demand for it http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... revstart=0
Last edited by eddy on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
- huppypuppy
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Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
That is a very interesting design, Eddy - if it were to be built, it would be more suited as a body module then I reckon it could be mounted to the LandRover Defender cab chassis or similar!eddy wrote:Both Ford and Holden really only take four adults and if you have a child seat, booster or baby capsule fitted then you have to remove them if you need the space.
Four wheel drives really only take small kids in the back and are hard to get very little ones in and out and front wheel drive people movers are too hard to park and cab over are not as safe
I am sure that there would be a market for a cheap economical front wheel drive car with six full sized seats with lap sash belts that can be parked as easy as a small car.
This is not pretty but i think there would be a demand for it http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... revstart=0
Love the new Custom Denning vehicles
Including the Adventurer School Bus
And the Endeavour Low Floor
And the new Element 100% Electric Bus - the first Aussie BEV bus
Including the Adventurer School Bus
And the Endeavour Low Floor
And the new Element 100% Electric Bus - the first Aussie BEV bus
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Hushpuppy
Sorry mate I thought you were having a go at me calling it a hearse and I got a bit defensive.
Unfortunatly the main point of the design is to give it the parking ability of the smallest cars with the 2.4m park mode wheelbase and also to use 12 inch wheels with front wheel drive to keep it low with heaps of legroom for all six seats and I do not think that would be possible on a 4 wheel drive chassis.
Perhaps if Ford or Holden look like closing they may think about making a big very affordable car like this.
Sorry mate I thought you were having a go at me calling it a hearse and I got a bit defensive.
Unfortunatly the main point of the design is to give it the parking ability of the smallest cars with the 2.4m park mode wheelbase and also to use 12 inch wheels with front wheel drive to keep it low with heaps of legroom for all six seats and I do not think that would be possible on a 4 wheel drive chassis.
Perhaps if Ford or Holden look like closing they may think about making a big very affordable car like this.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Not to mention some of them had problems with rust in hidden areas.scott wrote:I read an article in the Herald Sun Car Guide yesterday on the Ford Territory, by Graham Smith, he was saying buying a used Territory is risky, with all the ball joint issues and brake problems, also the diff bushes and the ZF transmissions, which can cost $6,000+ to replace, but can be repaired by a transmission specialist for much less.
Keep Melbourne Moving.
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Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
I would assume this would go for any Falcons thus equipped!scott wrote: also the diff bushes and the ZF transmissions, which can cost $6,000+ to replace, but can be repaired by a transmission specialist for much less.
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
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Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
The ZF transmissions are as tough as nails. Give them a flush every 100,000km and you're be right. I haven't heard of any catastrophies (yes, I read and post on Ford Forums under the same name) but I have seen several BFs and SYs with high mileages on them with ZFs and they are much stronger than the old BTR 4-speed boxes. The ZF transmissions and the inline-6engines are the best things about Falcon and Territory.
Proud owner of ex-Transperth 1042 and ex-Transperth 1114.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
eddy wrote:Both Ford and Holden really only take four adults and if you have a child seat, booster or baby capsule fitted then you have to remove them if you need the space.
Four wheel drives really only take small kids in the back and are hard to get very little ones in and out and front wheel drive people movers are too hard to park and cab over are not as safe
I am sure that there would be a market for a cheap economical front wheel drive car with six full sized seats with lap sash belts that can be parked as easy as a small car.
This is not pretty but i think there would be a demand for it http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/ ... revstart=0
Eastgardens to Kingsford is a 1-2 section fare.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
mubd
One day when you have kids you will know what I am on about.
One day when you have kids you will know what I am on about.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Ah, The Powell Motors Homer, designed by Homer Simpson
Was priced at $82,000 on release and did worse than the P76.
Was priced at $82,000 on release and did worse than the P76.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Ford Australia posted a $290 million loss
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/fo ... 6350896748
If they made the Focus here like they had planned to, they would not be in such bad shape I reckon.
Holden made a profit, thanks to the success of the Cruze
Lets put ourselves in this scenario
You have been employed by Ford Australia to help them out of their current slump, what would you recommend?
My suggestions
1. Sack the current management
2. Build a small car
3. Market the vehicles better
4. Improve after sales service
5. Don't sweep common product issues under the carpet- admit the problems and rework/recall cars in service before the problems become widespread
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/fo ... 6350896748
If they made the Focus here like they had planned to, they would not be in such bad shape I reckon.
Holden made a profit, thanks to the success of the Cruze
Lets put ourselves in this scenario
You have been employed by Ford Australia to help them out of their current slump, what would you recommend?
My suggestions
1. Sack the current management
2. Build a small car
3. Market the vehicles better
4. Improve after sales service
5. Don't sweep common product issues under the carpet- admit the problems and rework/recall cars in service before the problems become widespread
- PoweredByCNG
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Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Let's face it, Ford have the superior product over the competition when it comes to full-sized cars with 6-cylinder engines. Ford's 6-cylinder powertrain and German 6-speed auto is chalk-and-cheese better compared to what Holden offers, with real-life fuel consumption being no worse and in some cases better. Aesthetically, the VE Commodore leaves much to be desired and the exterior design especially has not aged all that well. Originally, I thought the look of the VE would grow on me, but it just hasn't. The flared wheelarches and huge A-pillars make the car hideous and the handbrake lever is nothing more than a joke. On the upside, Holden retains the superior centre console layout and wonderful seats that we all expect from Commodore. Problem is, your average Joe has no idea about all this due to the lack of marketting and additionally the poor aftersales and dodgy salesmen offered at Ford dealers puts many punters off.
One thing that most people still don't know about is the fact that the Ford FG Falcon EcoLPi with the new Liquid Injected LPG engine develops more power and torque than the equivalent petrol engine (LPG = 198kW/409Nm, petrol = 195kW/391Nm) and delivers this power and torque to the road more smoothly while costing the same as a medium-sized 4-cylinder car to run in relation to fuel.
One thing that most people still don't know about is the fact that the Ford FG Falcon EcoLPi with the new Liquid Injected LPG engine develops more power and torque than the equivalent petrol engine (LPG = 198kW/409Nm, petrol = 195kW/391Nm) and delivers this power and torque to the road more smoothly while costing the same as a medium-sized 4-cylinder car to run in relation to fuel.
Proud owner of ex-Transperth 1042 and ex-Transperth 1114.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Ford only take suggestions in America and it is like winning lotto if they will even think about an idea that comes from the general public as they claim they get most of their ideas off the workers at the car factory.
Now i can see that is where there would get their gradual engineering/cost saving ideas from but there is still a need for a radical new type of car that only the end user realises that takes 6 full sized adults with sliding doors and would be easy to park.
Now i can see that is where there would get their gradual engineering/cost saving ideas from but there is still a need for a radical new type of car that only the end user realises that takes 6 full sized adults with sliding doors and would be easy to park.
Parrahub, an extra option in the public transport menu http://www.parrahub.org.au/
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Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
I have recently bought an 07 TX Territory and love it it goes anywhere and plenty of room
Where as the 09 Cruise my mother bought a few years ago is rubbish
Where as the 09 Cruise my mother bought a few years ago is rubbish
Proud Owner of a Volvo B10M mk 2 Volgren and a Scania L113CRB Volgren
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Is the Cruze a petrol or a diesel?
I read in the Herald Sun Cars Guide on Friday that a oil filter for the Cruze diesel has a list price of $128.00, as Holden say it is a specialised oil filter for Euro 5 diesels. Some of the parts pricing is through the roof.
Also while on the subject of Holden, check out this story from 3AW's breakfast show from during the week where a Holden dealer found a cat underneath a Commodore when it came into the workshop to have a funny noise from the rear attended to.
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/breaking-ne ... 1yhgd.html
Lucky they found it in time.
I read in the Herald Sun Cars Guide on Friday that a oil filter for the Cruze diesel has a list price of $128.00, as Holden say it is a specialised oil filter for Euro 5 diesels. Some of the parts pricing is through the roof.
Also while on the subject of Holden, check out this story from 3AW's breakfast show from during the week where a Holden dealer found a cat underneath a Commodore when it came into the workshop to have a funny noise from the rear attended to.
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/breaking-ne ... 1yhgd.html
Lucky they found it in time.
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Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Petrol cruze with 61,000kms on it and every so often the computers have a hissy fit and it doesn't start and all the bells and whistles go off local Holden dealer says its our fault for not servicing it there
Proud Owner of a Volvo B10M mk 2 Volgren and a Scania L113CRB Volgren
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
They should not do that, if the car is serviced by the book by a qualified mechanic to Holden specifications, then they should not fob you off. 2009 would just be coming out of warranty, I would try and push them into fixing the computer issues before the warranty expires. You are entitled to warranty whether Holden service it or not.
Re: FORD OR HOLDEN???
Ford should do a campaign like this again- this was from 1989 but could very easily be re-recorded and new footage shot. This was Ford Australia's tag line from 1989 to 1998.