New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Victorian Timetable and Service Changes

New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby Bradley » Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:21 pm

http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/pt/publ ... us-network wrote (See first latest news under Metropolitan bus network):

A new bus route will begin in the Caroline Springs area in late November. It will be known as Route 462 (Watergardens - Caroline Springs) and will operate till 9pm, seven days a week.


See City of Melton local route map dated October, 2011 at: http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/asse ... Melton.pdf for more details for bus route 462 description.

Also notice thats route 461 extends from Taylors Hill to Caroline Springs SC via Hume Dr, Gourlay Rd & Caroline Spring Bvd on the City of Melton local route map as well.

Cheers

Bradley.
Last edited by Bradley on Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: New 462 starts Late November, 2011.

Postby RailwayBus » Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:53 pm

Apparantly the route 462 will be operated by Kastoria.
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Re: New 462 starts Late November, 2011.

Postby jarf » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:21 pm

The new timetable is now online: http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/route/view/5663 but it doesn't have the Caroline Springs-bound times listed. :?

RailwayBus is right, it'll be operated by Kastoria.
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Re: New 462 starts Late November, 2011.

Postby tranzitjim » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:32 pm

Should we not be moving all busses in Melbourne to the Smart bus network?

Even a very short one like this.
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Re: New 462 starts Late November, 2011.

Postby krustyklo » Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:52 pm

Should we not be moving all busses in Melbourne to the Smart bus network?


No.
  • Not all routes need the frequency of Smartbus. For many routes every 20-30 minutes would be more than adequate. Some not even that frequently (e.g. 684 to Eildon :D ) Get hold of the bus review reports from the DoT website, some of them discuss the theory behind the decisions and it's quite interesting.
  • Not all routes need the technology. In fact, I'd be tempted to suggest that Smartbus technology would be largely out of date in around 10 years time give or take a few years. The reality is that a lot of people nowadays carry around the technology required to deliver them live updates on demand wherever and whenever they are (and in the case of the tram network, it happens now). It will be far more beneficial to have a webpage designed for mobile web browsers with live departure information (e.g. such as what is done now with the Tram Tracker website) so people can look up the arrival of the next bus before they even get to the bus stop (i.e. before they leave home or if they are at the shops and deciding if they have time to grab a coffee). If the bus is running 10 minutes late, that information is actually of little use to me once I am at the stop with the PID or screen or voice information. I'm still stuck there anyway. On the other hand if I know as I am walking out the door that I have another 10 minutes, I can decide to fill in 10 minutes, rush less or drive. Whilst some would suggest that a system that encourages people to drive is a bad thing, I would argue that one trip in the car to overcome a temporary inconveience is better PR than several waits at a bus stop for 10 minutes which would encourage people not to bother in the first instance.
  • As it's unlikely to happen in my lifetime, I'd rather push for a network of high frequency routes with connecting local services, not unlike the current setup with orbital Smartbuses and DART. If a few more targetted routes were made Smartbus standard then I think this would be adequate. Not ALL routes!
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Re: New 462 starts Late November, 2011.

Postby tranzitjim » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:15 am

krustyklo wrote:
Should we not be moving all busses in Melbourne to the Smart bus network?


No.
  • Not all routes need the frequency of Smartbus. For many routes every 20-30 minutes would be more than adequate. Some not even that frequently (e.g. 684 to Eildon :D ) Get hold of the bus review reports from the DoT website, some of them discuss the theory behind the decisions and it's quite interesting.
  • Not all routes need the technology. In fact, I'd be tempted to suggest that Smartbus technology would be largely out of date in around 10 years time give or take a few years. The reality is that a lot of people nowadays carry around the technology required to deliver them live updates on demand wherever and whenever they are (and in the case of the tram network, it happens now). It will be far more beneficial to have a webpage designed for mobile web browsers with live departure information (e.g. such as what is done now with the Tram Tracker website) so people can look up the arrival of the next bus before they even get to the bus stop (i.e. before they leave home or if they are at the shops and deciding if they have time to grab a coffee). If the bus is running 10 minutes late, that information is actually of little use to me once I am at the stop with the PID or screen or voice information. I'm still stuck there anyway. On the other hand if I know as I am walking out the door that I have another 10 minutes, I can decide to fill in 10 minutes, rush less or drive. Whilst some would suggest that a system that encourages people to drive is a bad thing, I would argue that one trip in the car to overcome a temporary inconveience is better PR than several waits at a bus stop for 10 minutes which would encourage people not to bother in the first instance.
  • As it's unlikely to happen in my lifetime, I'd rather push for a network of high frequency routes with connecting local services, not unlike the current setup with orbital Smartbuses and DART. If a few more targetted routes were made Smartbus standard then I think this would be adequate. Not ALL routes!


I would disagree with the middle point.

What for people who do not have mobile devices?
++People who choose not to get one, like me
++People who loose their mobile device
++People who have a mobile device and experience a device failure such as battery gone flat.
++Not nearly as easy to use as, just looking up to a screen to see the information.
+++To use a mobile device you need to...
..........Turn the thing on
..........Find out the website, OR search your menu of application buttons
..........Navigate around the website to find your stop

There is nothing that can replace having a screen or display fixed there at the stop.
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Re: New 462 starts Late November, 2011.

Postby tranzitjim » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:19 am

krustyklo wrote:
Should we not be moving all busses in Melbourne to the Smart bus network?


No.
  • Not all routes need the frequency of Smartbus. For many routes every 20-30 minutes would be more than adequate. Some not even that frequently (e.g. 684 to Eildon :D ) Get hold of the bus review reports from the DoT website, some of them discuss the theory behind the decisions and it's quite interesting.
  • Not all routes need the technology. In fact, I'd be tempted to suggest that Smartbus technology would be largely out of date in around 10 years time give or take a few years. The reality is that a lot of people nowadays carry around the technology required to deliver them live updates on demand wherever and whenever they are (and in the case of the tram network, it happens now). It will be far more beneficial to have a webpage designed for mobile web browsers with live departure information (e.g. such as what is done now with the Tram Tracker website) so people can look up the arrival of the next bus before they even get to the bus stop (i.e. before they leave home or if they are at the shops and deciding if they have time to grab a coffee). If the bus is running 10 minutes late, that information is actually of little use to me once I am at the stop with the PID or screen or voice information. I'm still stuck there anyway. On the other hand if I know as I am walking out the door that I have another 10 minutes, I can decide to fill in 10 minutes, rush less or drive. Whilst some would suggest that a system that encourages people to drive is a bad thing, I would argue that one trip in the car to overcome a temporary inconveience is better PR than several waits at a bus stop for 10 minutes which would encourage people not to bother in the first instance.
  • As it's unlikely to happen in my lifetime, I'd rather push for a network of high frequency routes with connecting local services, not unlike the current setup with orbital Smartbuses and DART. If a few more targetted routes were made Smartbus standard then I think this would be adequate. Not ALL routes!


Where can I find these reports.
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Re: New 462 starts Late November, 2011.

Postby Craig » Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:06 pm

The Executive Summary reports for each of the 16 reviews can be viewed here - http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/pt/publ ... ce-reviews

The full report however needs to be ordered from the DoT as a free CD-ROM for each review.

Kind Regards


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Re: New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby Bradley » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:28 pm

See new route 461 (Watergardens to Caroline Springs SC) timetables at: http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/route/view/5660

Note: New Route 461 new timetables not yet online.

See route map at: http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/maps ... s/bus/5660

Cheers

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Re: New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby krustyklo » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:10 pm

I would disagree with the middle point.

What for people who do not have mobile devices?
++People who choose not to get one, like me
++People who loose their mobile device
++People who have a mobile device and experience a device failure such as battery gone flat.
++Not nearly as easy to use as, just looking up to a screen to see the information.
+++To use a mobile device you need to...
..........Turn the thing on
..........Find out the website, OR search your menu of application buttons
..........Navigate around the website to find your stop

There is nothing that can replace having a screen or display fixed there at the stop.


I think you exaggerate the unuseability of the modern phone. I have the link to the Metlink mobile site bus times in my Bookmarks on my phone (an ageing Nokia "classic" something or other) and I can look up any bus time in around a minute. Live Tram info in the same way in under a minute. And my phone is a P.O.S. cheap phone. Yeah the battery goes flat. Yeah it's a not very fancy phone. But it has the very unique advantage over a screen at a stop that I can look up bus times BEFORE I leave home. And I use Tram Tracker to know whether I need to get a wriggle on to the tram stop when I'm walking there, or whether I can take my time. Neither of which can be done with all the technology in the world at the stop itself. And all of which can be done by creating a website with live departure info, a damn sight cheaper process than installing hardware at EVERY bus stop so that those who have already arrived at said stop know whether they are going to be waiting the expected time, or somewhat longer, information which is consoling but ultimately after the decision to travel has been taken. I'd rather know before I leave home whether I need to rush, or if I have time to visit the small room / make a travel mug of coffee to go / etc rather than try and waste time at the stop - usually by surfing the web on my phone! :lol:

I am aware that not everyone has a phone or wants one. But it is ubiquitous enough nowadays let alone in 10 years time to query whether expensive bus stops are a good investment, or whether the limited taxpayer funds are better spent developing a much more useful solution to the large number of people with an internet enabled phone, with the difference spent on better services or better alternative infrastructure (eg shelters and seats at more stops would be my choice). We may have to agree to disagree. :D
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Re: New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby krustyklo » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:30 am

Actually, for those who don't like using mobile phones and websites, there are other options. I came across a 2007 TramTracker brochure today, and it interestingly has no mention of the internet. The original TramTracker live tram info was an SMS and phone service. No reason that couldn't be done today in addition to a website and it would still probably be cheaper than expensive bus stops! I am sure even the elderly use a normal landline.
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Re: New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby Craig » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:34 pm

The new 461 timetable has appeared online, along with the 462 timetable towards Caroline Springs.

Route 461 will continue to operate at 40 minute intervals 7 days a week under the revised route.

Kind Regards


Craig :)
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Re: New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby Craig » Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:24 pm

Metlink wrote:Improved bus services for Caroline Springs, Taylors Hill and Hillside from Monday 28 November
Date Published: Thursday 17 November 2011


A new bus route and extension to an existing bus route will improve public transport in Caroline Springs, Taylors Hill and Hillside.

The following changes will apply from Monday 28 November.

Route 461: extended to Caroline Springs Square Shopping Centre

Route 461 will be extended to provide a direct connection between Taylors Hill and Caroline Springs Square.

From Watergardens Station, Route 461 will run along Hume Drive and then south via Gourlay Road and Caroline Springs Boulevard to Caroline Springs Square Shopping Centre.

New Route 462 will replace Route 461 along some sections of Calder Park Drive.

For route and timetable information, follow the link below:

→ Route 461 - Watergardens - Caroline Springs Shopping Centre

Route 462: new route – Watergardens Station to Caroline Springs

New Route 462 will service Taylors Hill and Hillside via Calder Park Drive.

The bus runs via Melton Highway, Calder Park Drive, Loddon Drive, Watervale Boulevard and Caroline Springs Square Shopping Centre.

Connections to Melton, Sunshine and Highpoint Shopping Centre are available from the Caroline Springs terminus at Rockbank Middle Road.

For route and timetable information, follow the link below:

→ Route 462 - Watergardens - Caroline Springs



Both routes will run until approximately 9pm, seven days per week.


Kind Regards


Craig :)
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Re: New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby Bradley » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:38 pm

Westrans Sunshine.

Picked up onboard bus at Caroline Springs SC today (28 November).

Route 461 Watergardens to Carolines Springs new bus timetables Effective Bus times 28 November, 2011/Train times 8 May, 2011 v.1 (Nov 11).

*Route 461 extends from Taylor Hill to Carolines Springs SC via Hume Dr, Gourlay Rd & Carolines Springs Rd.
*no longer via Calder Park Dr (replace by new route 462) , Catherine Dr & Comunity Hub to Gourlay Rd.

And

Kastoria Bus.

Picked up onboard bus at Watergardens Station bus terminal today (28 November).

Route 462 Watrergardens to Carolines Springs (new route) & 476 Moonee Ponds to Hillside new bus timetables Effective Bus times 28 November, 2011/Train times 8 May, 2011 v.1 (Nov 11).

*Route 476 no longer alone bus timetables now with new route 462.
*New Route 462 goes via Watergardens Circuit Dr, Melton Hwy, Calder Park Dr, Loddon Dr, Watervale Dr, Tenterfield Dr, Inglewood Dr, Central Dr, Commercial Rd, Lake St to Caroline Springs SC, then via Lake Dr, Caroline Springs Bvd, The Crossing, The Grange, Old Hall Dr, St George Ave & Rockbank Middle Rd & Caroline Springs Bvd to Caroline Springs & vice versa.

Cheers

Bradley.
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Re: New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby Craig » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:02 pm

Is the 462/476 combined timetable still pocket size?

Also of interest, it seems the tempoary route via Taylors Rd that was on the October 2011 local area maps for Melton and Brimbank hasn't been neccessary, as the local roads have opened.

Kind Regards


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Re: New 461 & 462 TT starts 28 November, 2011.

Postby Bradley » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:05 pm

Craig wrote:Is the 462/476 combined timetable still pocket size?

Also of interest, it seems the tempoary route via Taylors Rd that was on the October 2011 local area maps for Melton and Brimbank hasn't been neccessary, as the local roads have opened.

Kind Regards


Craig :)

No, it's now in booklet DL format, no longer pocket format.

Thanks for mentions that, Craig, I forgot!

Cheers

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