Australian Aviation Thread - 2019

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JRBUS123
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Australian Aviation Thread - 2019

Post by JRBUS123 »

Hello. I have decided to create a thread about discussing all things aviation (i.e. the aviation events, new planned destinations, rare aeroplane sightings in Australia etc...) and other related stories/news.

I can start off with Qantas's Project Sunrise flight which arrived in Sydney on a long 19 hour flight from London's Heathrow airport.

Interestingly, if you view the flight data on a flight tracker, the amount of time it took to get to Sydney from New York (JFK) and London (LHR) were very similar and almost the same


In other news, Emirates is removing its daily Dubai-Singapore-Brisbane flight due to declines in revenue

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... bai-flight
Last edited by JRBUS123 on Wed Jan 01, 2020 4:10 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

Post by boronia »

But in other news, QF couldn't quite get a flight from Melbourne to Wellington

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/qa ... 53b8l.html
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Re: National Aviation Thread

Post by Centralian »

Here's a link to a very good (although lengthy) coverage of the history of Sydney Airport and its 100 years.
On 19 November 1919 Nigel Love made the first 'commercial' flight taking off from a paddock he bought near the local Ascot racetrack.
Story goes apparently owners wanted to call the area 'Ascot' after the racetrack, but British wouldn't allow it, so they put an 'M' in front.

http://www.sydstories.com.au/

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Re: National Aviation Thread

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Another story relating to Qantas this time about an incident involving celebrity Will.I.Am which says that he was abused by a QF flight attendant on a domestic flight from Brisbane to Sydney

More details here
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/m ... 56ca587fa7
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Re: National Aviation Thread

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I wonder why so many of these "high profile celebrities" have issues with airlines and staff who ask them to comply with the same rules and restrictions as other passengers?
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Re: National Aviation Thread

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Re: National Aviation Thread

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boronia wrote:I wonder why so many of these "high profile celebrities" have issues with airlines and staff who ask them to comply with the same rules and restrictions as other passengers?
I'm just surprised he didn't hire a private jet. But yes, I do wonder that myself.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

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This week, Qantas announced that it wants to operate flights to India. First via a stopover from Singapore and then non-stop.
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... n-non-stop

I think This might not be a bad idea. As Qantas are removing its Sydney to Beijing flights, it perhaps could use the a330's they were using for this run for the Indian runs if they go ahead with these proposals. I think this really depends on which cities would most likely be beneficial to Qantas in terms of demand and risk.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

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I have a feeling that QF has ventured into the Indian market previously, but without success?
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Re: National Aviation Thread

Post by JRBUS123 »

That's correct. They did. Qantas used to operate flights to Mumbai international airport via Singapore until they axed it in May 2012 in favour of other routes such as Sydney to Tokyo, which at that time was then moved to a daily service

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IIRC QF21/22 was a daily SYD-NRT service back to the mid 1980s?
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Re: National Aviation Thread

Post by Mitch »

I would suggest that the Mumbai flights would be a relatively successful venture for Qantas. The only direct flights between Australia and India that I know of are the two out of Melbourne and Sydney operated by Air India. Given the continued growth of India as a world powerhouse, it wouldn't surprise me if the Mumbai flights are a big money maker. If they continued the dogleg via Singapore, and were given the approval to sell tickets purely on the Singapore - Mumbai leg, it would add a nice amount of competition to the likes of Vistara and Air India.

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Re: National Aviation Thread

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IIRC QF21/22 was a daily SYD-NRT service back to the mid 1980s?
Sorry Boronia, I'm not exactly sure on that one. Might do some research and check on that.

Interesting article popped up this week on the Executive Traveller website. El Al Israel Airlines plan to start non-stop flights next year (early 2020) to Melbourne

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ne-flights
Executive Traveller wrote:El Al will begin non-stop Melbourne flights in 2020

The Israeli flag-carrier says it will run a 'trial' of direct flights between Tel Aviv and Melbourne in early 2020.

By David Flynn, November 27 2019

Israel's El Al will launch direct flights to Melbourne by the middle of 2020 as a trial to assess demand on the new non-stop route.

The airline has announced plans for a series of 'test flights' between Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport and Melbourne, to begin in the second quarter of 2020, according to The Jerusalem Post.

Melbourne vies with Sydney as home to Australia's largest Jewish populations, but El Al's flights will be the first direct link between the two countries.

The flights, which are estimated to take around 17 hours, will also rank among the world's longest, potentially surpassing Emirates' Dubai-Auckland marathon.

El Al rely on its new Boeing 787-9 fleet to make the journey between Tel Aviv and Melbourne. London-based design firm PriestmanGoode helped shape the Dreamliners with new seats and cabins, along with an updated livery to better reflect the airline's flag-carrier status.

While El Al doesn't belong to any of the major three airline alliances, its position as a Qantas partner means that El Al flights can be booked using Qantas Points, while El Al flights booked under a QF codeshare will earn a full serve of Qantas Points and status credits.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

Post by boronia »

JRBUS123 wrote:
IIRC QF21/22 was a daily SYD-NRT service back to the mid 1980s?
Sorry Boronia, I'm not exactly sure on that one. Might do some research and check on that.
When I started doing Japanese inbound work in 1982, there were just 6 flts per week NRT-SYD, shared on alternating days Mon-Sat QF/JL.
Later this went to 6 each per week, then 7.
By the late 80s NH and AN were in the mix, with flts from OSA and transits through CNS and BRI. JD also had services in holiday peaks. On Tuesdays, there were 7 flts into Sydney from Japan, and at least 4 on most other days.

It amused me in the early days that a lot of pax were going to CNS, but had to come to Sydney, tfr to domestic and fly almost 1/3 of the way back to get there.

My recollection of actual dates is a bit hazy now, but I have some old work diaries hidden away somewhere.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

Post by Transport Buff »

Does anyone know some good filming locations at Sydney Airport?
I am hoping to film some aircraft there during the upcoming Christmas Holidays and was wondering where some good vantage points to film would be; that are away from the hustle and bustle of the area.
If not, that is ok. Just wondering.
Thanks in advance.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

Post by BanksfielderIdiot823 »

Transport Buff wrote:Does anyone know some good filming locations at Sydney Airport?
I am hoping to film some aircraft there during the upcoming Christmas Holidays and was wondering where some good vantage points to film would be; that are away from the hustle and bustle of the area.
If not, that is ok. Just wondering.
Thanks in advance.
Maybe this from the Airport's website could help you out. There are four spots in the immediate vicinity of the airport
https://www.sydneyairport.com.au/corpor ... nthusiasts

Much of the other probable spots for the runways towards or from the south (albeit them being well outside the airport precinct) could be La Perouse, Kurnell or anywhere from Brighton down to Dolls Point, though that's just my guess from a map since I lived nowhere near Rockdale.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

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BanksfielderIdiot823 wrote:
Transport Buff wrote:Does anyone know some good filming locations at Sydney Airport?
I am hoping to film some aircraft there during the upcoming Christmas Holidays and was wondering where some good vantage points to film would be; that are away from the hustle and bustle of the area.
If not, that is ok. Just wondering.
Thanks in advance.
Maybe this from the Airport's website could help you out. There are four spots in the immediate vicinity of the airport
https://www.sydneyairport.com.au/corpor ... nthusiasts

Much of the other probable spots for the runways towards or from the south (albeit them being well outside the airport precinct) could be La Perouse, Kurnell or anywhere from Brighton down to Dolls Point, though that's just my guess from a map since I lived nowhere near Rockdale.
Thanks so much for the info. The Sydney Airport page was really helpful. I'm glad they are quite open to aviation enthusiasts. I definitely will check out the vantage points they suggest on their website, this coming Christmas Holidays.
Cheers. :)
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Re: National Aviation Thread

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Article in the Executive Traveller website popped up today.

Qantas not convinced on Airbus, Boeing revised Project Sunrise bids

"We don't have to do Project Sunrise" says Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, as Airbus and Boeing hand in a second version of their offers.

David Flynn
Airbus and Boeing have submitted revised proposals for Qantas’ ambitious Project Sunrise flights, however the airline is still not ready to pull the trigger on a multi-billion dollar order for either the Airbus A350-1000 or the Boeing 777-8.

The aircraft manufacturers handed Qantas their “best and final offers” on their planes in August, but Qantas believed the price was too high and, in the words of Qantas International CEO (and former Qantas Group CFO) Tino La Spina, “we asked them to go back and sharpen their pencils, because there still was a gap there.”

Reworked proposals have since made their way from Toulouse and Chicago to Mascot, La Spina tells Executive Traveller, but neither of those sealed the deal.

“We've received something back (but) we've still got a couple of questions or clarifications on what’s in there."

While La Spina wouldn’t be drawn on specifics of the shortfall, he says that Qantas has been “very clear” to Airbus and Boeing on its expectations.

“Having been CFO in the past, I want to make sure that we set it up for success. We’ll get these aircraft and they’ll be there for 20 years-plus in the fleet. So you don't want to base this on a bad business case, because then you've got to live with that.”

But the clock is ticking for Airbus and Boeing, with Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce eager to make a decision on the Sunrise fleet by the end of this year.


“We're still hopeful to close this off one by the end of the year,” Joyce tells Executive Traveller. “The dilemma that we have is this is a big task, Sunrise is taking up a lot of resources, and there's a big task with the domestic fleet replacements that we need to make next year, and that’s going to take most of the year, if not more, to get it done. So we don't want to keep on pushing (Sunrise dates) around.”

Even if Airbus or Boeing finds a tentative order wrapped under their Christmas tree, other pieces of the Project Sunrise puzzle still need to fall in place in the opening months of 2020.

“The manufacturers need to contribute their part, the pilots and the regulators have to contribute their part,” Joyce says.

He also expects the non-stop flights could command a 30% price premium over conventional stop-over routes, adding “it has to work commercially because we will want the premium and we expect a big seat factor, and the combination of these all have to come together.”

Joyce: “We don’t have to do Project Sunrise”

"One part letting down the team, as it were, means that you won't cross the threshold and the returns that we're setting ourselves for the business case, and then we won't do it. We'll walk away from it. We don’t have to do Sunrise.”

“One of the good things about where Qantas is today, it's been very disciplined on its allocation of capital. It can't get something like this wrong and it has to make sure it does it right.”

“But when we've made the big bets, on Jetstar and the loyalty business, they've always paid dividends for us in the long run, and those big bets are the reason I think we're strong today. So we're keen on Sunrise, but we won't do it at all costs.”
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Re: National Aviation Thread

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Mentioned on the news tonight that QF has chosen the A350-1000.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

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They have ordered for 12 of the a350-1000 aircraft, worth $3 billion, but this hasn't been firmed up yet (needs approval from the Australian Civil Aviation Safety Authority).

This is a big win for airbus and it would provide benefits to both itself and Qantas. But, I reckon if Qantas wanted to begin its Project Sunrise plans in 2021 onwards, this would be a risk to choose Boeing's offer anyway. They have had a few issues with their new 777 model in the last few months and have already had to delay deliveries back a year (to 2021). To be honest with all this, I'm surprised that they chose the airbus a350 model given that it was only a week ago that Qantas announced they were not convinced about both Airbus and Boeing's offers

Would love to see the airbus a350 in Qantas colours flying around our skies.
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Re: National Aviation Thread

Post by Merc1107 »

JRBUS123 wrote:They have ordered for 12 of the a350-1000 aircraft, worth $3 billion, but this hasn't been firmed up yet (needs approval from the Australian Civil Aviation Safety Authority).
Not only that, but they need to commit to Project Sunrise before these orders materialise. Whether they go ahead with it or not, next year they're evaluating their options for the domestic fleet... Although the attitude that came across from a few articles I read was F100 replacement is still some time away given their very low utilisation (speaking of which, Virgin are set to withdraw a few early next year as part of their capacity reductions - I imagine Alliance may snap them up).

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Re: Australian Aviation Thread

Post by moa999 »

They haven't ordered at all.
They have selected their preferred aircraft and seemingly got a firm price from Airbus.

They need to commit to the order by March, for 2023 deliveries.

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Re: Australian Aviation Thread

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moa999 wrote:They haven't ordered at all.
They have selected their preferred aircraft and seemingly got a firm price from Airbus.
Oops :oops: my mistake. You're correct. Looks like I didn't read the news article I read properly.

I doubt Qantas will probably change their minds on this offer. It seems like a pretty decent offer, but you never know: things can change
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread

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I read that it is dependent on getting all the other cost factors aligned favourably. Lets hope the unions don't get nasty.

A 20 hour flight might be a novelty the first couple of times, I wonder how long the passengers will stay warm to the idea?
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