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Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

General Transport Discussion not specific to one state

Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby Merc1107 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:31 pm

TA3001 wrote:What exactly has caused the rapid downfall with many modern (and mainly suburban) bus body designs in Australia?
We're probably beginning to diverge from the topic at hand here. And I'm not interested in another Volgren vs Customs vs Bustech (etc) debate.

What I will do is point out the obvious. We have State Governments who, for better or worse, chase votes through local content requirements. That's the first problem - in Australia, you're creating these isolated little pockets of manufacturing that can't necessarily produce all that efficiently*. Then you have Governments with limited budgets effectively awarding tenders for the supply of vehicles to the lowest bidder; Australia is a relatively expensive place to manufacture goods (high wages, costs associated with sourcing components not produced in Australia from distant overseas manufacturers, Government regulation) so straight away there will be some sort of tradeoff when these small, inefficient and costly manufacturers are asked to produce something "cheaply."

The result is an end product that is built to a price, rather than to a standard. There are instances where this isn't necessarily the case, but to raise a frequent topic of discussion; this is likely the reason why fully low floor vehicles, with multiple doors haven't gained traction as quickly as elsewhere. It is also why enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts alike notice fit and finish issues with even brand-new buses, crap ergonomics for the driver and other peculiar design niggles.

*I'm not suggesting manufacturing is best lost to overseas, only pointing out that small, low-scale, isolated manufacturers wouldn't be as efficient as a more centralised operation in some part of the country.
This also creates a barrier to potential competitors who have not established themselves in a particular state; if they were to setup a factory locally, winning a supply contract over a competitor could decimate the jobs of one firm in favour of another which wouldn't be a good look for the Politicians.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby Bus Suggestions » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:14 am

TA3001 wrote:I'm not sure if Volgren still have that quiet ding sound when the button is pressed, but I know Bustech includes the 'next stop requested' when the button's pressed, and Custom ones now has that horrible unpleasantly loud jackpot tone which follows the simple beep. The beep is the only sound audible in the ex Sydney Iveco CB80s though.

Well, most Optimus buses/Optimi in Perth have that ear-popping buzzer, but I've observed that Transperth/Transdev bus 2165 (Volvo B7RLE/Optimus) has the bell sound rather than the buzzer.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby TA3001 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:58 am

Bus Suggestions wrote:Well, most Optimus buses/Optimi in Perth have that ear-popping buzzer, but I've observed that Transperth/Transdev bus 2165 (Volvo B7RLE/Optimus) has the bell sound rather than the buzzer.


That's disgraceful. You should put in a complaint about it if it's annoying you to the point where it's an assault on your ears. It is not acceptable in my opinion for passengers to be disturbed by bus body design flaws.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby Merc1107 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:33 pm

The latest deliveries in the 2900-series now feature a stop-request "Bell" recording rather than the buzzer/bleep... What was wrong with a physical bell, I'll never understand.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby Bus Suggestions » Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:34 pm

Good news for TA3001! Transperth seem to now be fitting the "bell" recording onto all their buses that originally had a buzzer, in addition to new deliveries!
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby TA3001 » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:11 pm

I tend to cringe nowadays when I hear the term 'new bus'. But this is because the oldest ones which they're stealing the spots of aren't just another bus to me anymore.

And I have never traveled on Perth PT at all, so it looks like you'll be the one that's happy about the tone being less ear piercing.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby TA3001 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:02 pm

I know that this topic has been dormant for nearly 2 months, but I went on a new Bustech vehicle yesterday, and there are obvious design flaws. Apart from feeling like I'm sitting inside a container, there were very loud nonstop squeaks which did get to me even after just 10 minutes of being aboard. I personally find the internal paneling (it's like the dot matrix on bus destos) to be a tiny bit irritating, but I can't pinpoint exactly why. I have a feeling that they may be equally or even more unsturdy than the Custom Coaches jackpot CB80s.

But then, it has now became impossible to design a user friendly suburban bus in today's era that will not cause irritation towards passengers, unlike in the 2000s where it was done without minimal trouble and cost blowouts.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby tonyp » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:16 pm

TA3001 wrote:I know that this topic has been dormant for nearly 2 months, but I went on a new Bustech vehicle yesterday, and there are obvious design flaws. Apart from feeling like I'm sitting inside a container, there were very loud nonstop squeaks which did get to me even after just 10 minutes of being aboard. I personally find the internal paneling (it's like the dot matrix on bus destos) to be a tiny bit irritating, but I can't pinpoint exactly why. I have a feeling that they may be equally or even more unsturdy than the Custom Coaches jackpot CB80s.

But then, it has now became impossible to design a user friendly suburban bus in today's era that will not cause irritation towards passengers, unlike in the 2000s where it was done without minimal trouble and cost blowouts.

I asume this is in Adelaide and it's one of the Precision-built buses, it which case it's not full low-floor? I would be interested to see interior and exterior photos of these buses though, to see how they resolved the issue of the window-line being too high for seated passengers to see out. Perhaps on the Adelaide section would be more appropriate.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby TA3001 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:15 pm

It's obvious that convenience is ahead of quality and customer satisfaction. But then the DPTI in SA is happy with anything that's accessible and runs on diesel, no matter unreliable, and poorly built it is, due to the cost being handed over to the operators.

There's only a tiny number of fully low floor buses in Adelaide. What is wrong with low entry anyway? I don't quite get it.

The Adelaide built NL202s don't even permit wheelchairs/prams to enter through the front. They have to enter through the centre door which is a bit of a nuisance to the driver. But I've heard that some drivers actually like this due to more room being available. I've actually heard of them accommodating up to 70 passengers. I've also noticed some drivers mentioning what is a nuisance to squeeze a gopher or any other large mobility device through the front of a CB80. I think the 2nd hand Volgren ones allow front entry.

Several fold out seats in the wheelchair/pram areas have been removed on many diesel NL202s. Without these seats, these buses effectively have 36 seats, which is only 6 more than the MAN 11.190s which were withdrawn from 2015 and onward.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby tonyp » Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:24 pm

Full low-floor allows mobility-impaired and elderly (the issue is far more than just wheelchairs) access to the full length of the interior, encourages crowds of standees to distribute themselves right to the back of the bus rather than stalling at the steps and the bus going off half-full and leaving people behind, and eliminates a safety hazard (steps).

Wheelchair access at the second door is pretty standard in Europe. It enables direct access to space directly opposite the door rather than having to turn down the aisle and trundle down the bus that you get with front-door access. This then enables the aisle from the front door to be narrowed a little to get more seats in down the front (2+2 or 2+1 abreast rather than only 1+1).
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby TA3001 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:57 pm

Is there a price difference between say the Scania NXXXUB, and the KXXXUB due to the former being fully low floor? I wonder if there are any potential security issues with centre door entry for mobility devices.

Leaving the driver area unattended with no other passengers aboard is surely an issue that there has to be a workaround for.

I don't personally like the N280UB that is currently in service. I've always had a preference to sit somewhere behind the centre door, with an elevated view. The SL202s in service are fine in this regard, despite the seats being mostly level. I suspect it's a leftover from catching high floors almost exclusively until the 2000s. I personally don't like my head being level with the passenger right in front of me.
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Re: Full Low Floor Buses and Singapore

Postby tonyp » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:48 pm

In full low-floors, the seats rear of the centre door are still elevated just like the seats in a low-entry, because of the wheel arches and mechanicals. It's only the aisle that is low and stepless.
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