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Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby burrumbus » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:06 pm

Very interesting Tony.
It seems as though the spectator buses are organized through Translink and presumably buses supplied by Surfside and the athletes,media and officials transport is organized by WCL Management which contracted in a large number of private buses being supplied.
Translink would therefore seem to have got that horribly wrong with an absolute lack of capacity and poor judgement on the crowd size to be moved.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:49 pm

I think there was a major error in judgement and planning in choosing Gold Coast as the venue for a major international games when the venues, particularly the major one, the Carrara stadium (which I believe was expanded to 40,000 capacity for the games), are so scattered and almost totally bus-dependent. Buses simply don't have the capacity for moving around such large numbers of people on their own. Serving a stadium of 40,000 on their own is particularly ridiculous, although I know it's the case with the similar-capacity Gabba, which is the largest in Australia served exclusively by buses - and I wonder how it goes there (like how long does it take to move out a capacity crowd at the finish?).

The state government and city council should have been doing more over the years to ensure that such venues were built where they were served by (or at least close to) train and tram lines, with a good network of covered pedestrian paths to close any gap between venues and transport.

As for the bus operations, they need to have more use of artics for such events with a minimum standard of three doors for artics and two doors for rigids and entry and exit by all doors. Greater capacity and greater efficiency.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:13 pm

http://www.news.com.au/sport/commonweal ... f4a1b880b5

I wonder whether the person who backtracked to Nerang station walked to the stadium. The distance isn't too great but iirc there is no footpath along this major road which would mean walking in traffic. Just a little instance of the lack of detailed thought in planning.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby burrumbus » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:40 pm

Yes,from the articles all door loading should have been employed to at least push the loading process along faster,after not having the correct number of buses(and standby buses)on service.Makes you wonder.
Perhaps some ex TFNSW were in charge of the organization of this !!
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:44 am

A really good recommendation (not) for public transport when you get pieces like this advising how to avoid it!

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/com ... 869cbaf5d2

I don't recall any comment like this during the Sydney Olympics but then again the transport worked well there (pity that Sydney hadn't sustained the effort since though).

From comments from people on Gold Coast that I've read, one potential alternative to the bus mess that hasn't been brought to attention is that the tram apparently brings people within a reasonable walk to some venues, but patrons were being advised instead to go to the nearest bus transfer point where they would wait for ages. It sounds like the organisers should have also had a guide to walks between tram stops and venues so that people have that option as well. Locals who know the lie of the land would probably be savvy with doing it this way, but this is an event with mostly "outside" visitors who don't have local knowledge and rely on official advice. I'm getting the impression that the tram is saving the day for public transport as the event progresses. Like most Australian cities, they don't really have much clue about how to do mass transit by bus.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby burrumbus » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:08 am

Thats very sad to have the only QLD Metro newspaper advising on not using public transport.It seems as though Translink have got this terribly wrong.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby Linto63 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:12 am

tonyp wrote:I don't recall any comment like this during the Sydney Olympics but then again the transport worked well there.
Bus transport in the leadup to the Sydney Olympics that was being overseen by the Bus & Coach Association of NSW was a shemozzle, buses not turning up for arriving athletes etc, out of town drivers getting lost etc. Some ministerial intervention saw some experienced hands from State Transit taking charge and managing to right the ship.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:24 am

Linto63 wrote:Bus transport in the leadup to the Sydney Olympics that was being overseen by the Bus & Coach Association of NSW was a shemozzle, buses not turning up for arriving athletes etc, out of town drivers getting lost etc. Some ministerial intervention saw some experienced hands from State Transit taking charge and managing to right the ship.

Yes I was referring to the final outcome.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby burrumbus » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:45 am

Linto63 wrote:
tonyp wrote:I don't recall any comment like this during the Sydney Olympics but then again the transport worked well there.
Bus transport in the leadup to the Sydney Olympics that was being overseen by the Bus & Coach Association of NSW was a shemozzle, buses not turning up for arriving athletes etc, out of town drivers getting lost etc. Some ministerial intervention saw some experienced hands from State Transit taking charge and managing to right the ship.

The organization of the actual services at the Olympics in Sydney was handled by the Olympic Roads and Transport Authority(ORTA) The Bus and Coach Association of NSW formed a company-BUS 2000 Pty.Ltd. which actually had the contract to provide the buses and drivers to operate on the services and timetables designed by ORTA.
Linto63 is quite correct to say the services operated were a shemozzle.I know-I took my bus up to Sydney and saw it first hand.
The major problem was that ORTA changed -altered/added services about a month out from the games.BUS 2000 and many/drivers /operators could not cope with the resulting mess.Many just went home.Another thing was the late change in rostering to the STA hastus system.Drivers were promised the operation of just 1-2 services during their stay.Many like my self went to operate 20 plus different services.To people not familar to Sydney this just did not work.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby boronia » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:47 pm

Saw a report on Ch 9 last night about a bus driver carrying one of the South African teams who got lost on the way to a venue because he "didn't set the GPS co-ordinates correctly" on his bus. Ended up getting a police escort to get back on track, but I think the team missed their event?
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby burrumbus » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:02 pm

There were numerous problems in the operation of services at the 2000 Olympics.
Inadequate run times on many routes.Too much run time on some.Duplicated shifts.Mixed up timetables.Excessive specialling and dead running.Operating 5-6 different routes across a shift.Poor rostering.The rostering of the wrong sized buses on shifts where either mini buses were sufficient ,or where full size buses were necessary.Sounds like the current(failed) operation of STA ,doesn't it !!!.In short the application of STA rostering practices to an operation where the vast majority of drivers were not familiar with Sydney was allways headed for disaster.If ORTA had not changed the services and timetables so late, BUS 2000 and the drivers/operators would have had a much better organized service to operate.In a very simple operating pattern,like the way most school bus services are operated in the country.After all the vast majority of drivers/operators were country school bus drivers/operators.
Each driver came up to Sydney 1-3 months beforehand for a weekends training over the routes.Because the routes were changed the routes were nothing like we were trained on.Waste of time,which resulted in numerous lost buses.
Each bus was supposed to have two drivers attached to it for the duration of the games,with drivers sharing two shifts per day with the same bus.That is one driver doing an AM shift-the other doing a PM shift.The late changes by ORTA to the services and timetables meant that it was virtually impossible to co-ordinate this theory.Many drivers spent long periods of time waiting in the offices for their buses to arrive.
The services ended up working like a giant taxi service,because the timetabling and rostering just failed so badly.I worked carrying Media around.There was a bloke who worked in the taxi industry and at Westbus as a despatcher who just ended up despatching buses in an adhoc manner to where they were needed.The good outcome in services only succeeded because of this aspect and the willingness of the vast majority(but not all)drivers to be ultra flexible and go where the passengers were.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby Free Lance » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:51 pm

Doing Cross regional services from the Northern Beaches was a delight.
Carrying visitors from all over the globe. Found nothing easier.
Had a late afternoon / evening trips through DY short meal break at Homebush Bay then the first am run in from Mona Vale.
Suppose it was the work I was doing but I really enjoyed talking with all our visitors and never a problem if the bus was full, there was always another following.
Locals were happy and there traffic was no where to be seen.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby boronia » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:50 pm

boronia wrote:Saw a report on Ch 9 last night about a bus driver carrying one of the South African teams who got lost on the way to a venue because he "didn't set the GPS co-ordinates correctly" on his bus. Ended up getting a police escort to get back on track, but I think the team missed their event?

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/commonwealth-games/embarrassing-bus-bungle-takes-athletes-to-brisbane-instead-of-coolangatta/news-story/a2cf44354947c1e1a0da12237f656cb3
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby burrumbus » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:19 am

Free Lance wrote:Doing Cross regional services from the Northern Beaches was a delight.
Carrying visitors from all over the globe. Found nothing easier.
Had a late afternoon / evening trips through DY short meal break at Homebush Bay then the first am run in from Mona Vale.
Suppose it was the work I was doing but I really enjoyed talking with all our visitors and never a problem if the bus was full, there was always another following.
Locals were happy and there traffic was no where to be seen.

Thanks Lance.From memory the cross regional services were operated and organized by the companies which held the contracts for those routes.I think it was a joint venture between Shorelink and Forest.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby Free Lance » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:16 am

Bus companies that knew how to run and operate a "SERVICE" from memory Forrest had a satellite depot in Dee Why West were a number of "out of town" buses were stabled. I think there was satellite depot at Warriewood for the extra buses operating for Shorelink. (it was nearly 18 years ago, sometimes the memory is not what it was).
The same could be said for all the other cross-regional operators.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby burrumbus » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:10 pm

Yes,thats how I recall how the cross regional services were operated too,Lance.You are right with your first comment too !!
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby Linto63 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:16 pm

IIRC, the only buses contributed to the Olympic effort by State Transit were reinstated former North & Western Leyland Tigers, although they provided a large fleet of then new Volvo B10BLEs for the Paralympics. Routes 1A/1B were operated by Forest and Shorelink. Rover Motors of Cessnock also provided buses on these routes with virtually their entire fleet sent to Sydney. The Warriewood depot was (I think) established on Water Board premises...but as Free Lance said was 18 years go, the memory does fade. Route 4 from Maroubra primarily used interstate buses.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby burrumbus » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:45 pm

Thanks Linto63.From my memory that is all correct.I was lucky to get photos of a few of the reinstated N & W Tigers with new plates in service.
What did you work on at the Olympics ??
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby 1of55 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:52 pm

A bit of positive news from the gold coast.
The trains are running every 7 or 8 mins from Brisbane to the gold coast. Normally only stopping at Altandi and Loganlea between Park Road and Beenleigh they are stopping at Yeronga, Coopers Plains, Altandi, Woodridge and Loganlea for the duration of the games. Buses serve the intermediate stations between these stops and Beenleigh. The guard gives passengers the route number and at which station to change to the special buses. The trains are full but if they cannot accommodate the quantity of passengers at one time buses are standing by at Gold coast stations for express trips to Brisbane.

The trams are packed from Helensvale but are copping with the load, at least they were when I traveled. I found the slopping floor near the doors difficult when traveling standing, with a need for more handrails. Due to the volume of passengers it must be impossible to check if all passengers are traveling with a valid ticket. There are plenty of personnel at Tram and train stations to assist visitors.

There are buses providing shuttles and charters to venues of the Games, from interstate, NSW and Victoria as well as other parts of Queensland.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:31 am

News in the Gold Coast Bulletin today (paywalled so I can't reproduce it) that the light rail has been carrying about 100,000 passengers per day during the games, more than three times its normal patronage. Perhaps a lesson about capacity will be learned from this. No bus operation has anything like the capacity to absorb such huge surges in demand. As I wrote previously, they should have planned the games a little more around the light rail - not only in location of venues but in terms of wayfinding that tells people how to get from the tram to a venue rather than directing them via a bus shuttle that fails.

Unfortunately, an event like an international games is a once-only and it has to be got right the first time. No opportunity for a run-in of the transport arrangements like for a new stadium that will be used for ongoing events, like Transperth has been experiencing on the new Perth stadium where there have been some minor glitches to learn from so that they don't happen on future events. It seems that Sydney had to mount a very steep and fast learning curve "live" on the olympic games!

Hopefully, this experience with the trams and the Commonwealth Games will wash away any remaining nonsense that trams have no role filling the capacity gap between buses and trains and that buses can do it all (the "BRT" fantasy). The first case it should be applied to is the nonsense of upgrading the Brisbane busways to double-articulated buses rather than going directly to trams that will offer much more (and furthermore, expandable) capacity into the long-term future.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby boronia » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:58 am

boronia wrote:
boronia wrote:Saw a report on Ch 9 last night about a bus driver carrying one of the South African teams who got lost on the way to a venue because he "didn't set the GPS co-ordinates correctly" on his bus. Ended up getting a police escort to get back on track, but I think the team missed their event?

https://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/sport/commonwealth-games/embarrassing-bus-bungle-takes-athletes-to-brisbane-instead-of-coolangatta/news-story/a2cf44354947c1e1a0da12237f656cb3

Some reports elsewhere now that the bus was going to its correct venue, but the volunteers doing the loadings put the wrong group on the bus.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:39 pm

Figures on which mode has done the heavy lifting:

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/ ... -commuters

The transport arrangements would have been well up the creek without it.

The only thing that's been left out in the Queensland government's trumpet blowing is that it's federal funding that clinched the GCLR extension. For all the flack being poured on Turnbull at the moment, it's worth remembering that the federal leadership coup made this possible, as Abbott was dogmatically opposed to funding this project.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby 1of55 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:23 pm

I am not aware that anyone has suggested that buses can do it all. The decision to up grade the carrying capacity of buses on the Brisbane busways not using trams was based on economic, funding decisions and passenger numbers, not on ‘tram mania’.

100,000 passengers a day on the Gold Coast trams! Who was counting them? Certainly not paid journeys. A rough estimate at best. How many passengers did buses and trains carry? A lot of people are walking and some cycling (as recommended for short journeys). The stadiums and venues were situated where they possibly could be in a built up urban environment, which was designed when the motor car was king and the expected means of transport was the private car.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:18 pm

If the press release is based on the first five days and over a million have been moved in that time, then the trams have accounted for about half of that figure, the trains about another 20% or so. I would think that the trams are equipped with automatic counting technology which is pretty standard nowadays.

Yes I'm aware of the grounds upon which the Brisbane busway decision was made (along with a rather obvious political ideological bias that can probably be summarised as bus-mania) and I'm comfortable with that on the basis that the busways can generally be converted to tram in the future should more capacity be needed in the future. What I'm not comfortable with is burying it under the "metro" title with various claims made (e.g.about electric traction) when it's quite evidently no more than a double-articulated bus service. Yet trams were considered necessary for the much less-populated Gold Coast. Doesn't compute.
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Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby 1of55 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:53 pm

Don’t see how counters would work. The trams were packed at times, including across doorways. Your figures seem rather rubbery. As you pointed out previously it is federal funding that decides what and where projects go ahead.
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