Perth Compared with other cities

General Transport Discussion not specific to one state
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tonyp
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Re: Perth Compared with other cities

Post by tonyp »

Linto63 wrote:
Sydney's population increased by 31% between 1970 and 2000, while Perth's more than doubled in the same period, so it should be leading the stats in terms of increased public transport use.
Of course. Original post edited to clarify.
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Merc1107
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Re: Perth Compared with other cities

Post by Merc1107 »

tonyp wrote:Bus patronage in all cities failed to keep pace with population growth (though in Perth that's mitigated by a lot of bus patronage transferring to the new rail system)
Regarding Perth, I'm not entirely sure that is true. I think electrification and the improvements to timetabling this saw probably saw passengers move onto or back to the rail system on the heritage lines. The Northern and Southern suburbs railways that followed might have caused some decline in bus usage, but their runaway success from the get-go probably more than balances out this decline in terms of the number of new patrons they have attracted to the feeders.

Reading the figures of Perth's population vs patronage growth is interesting. I wonder if our strong trend in growing mode share of public transport stems from this large population growth? It's still very easy to drive, so perhaps the influx of new residents preferred public transport by default; gave it a go, like it, and stuck with it(?).

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tonyp
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Re: Perth Compared with other cities

Post by tonyp »

The huge immigration of the last couple of decades or so has seen an influx of people from parts of the world where they don't mind using public transport or have a background of instinctively using it. I don't think this factor has been sufficiently acknowledged so far. Also the rate of growth of young people getting driving licences has been abating for some years and the average age of drivers is getting older.
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PaxInfo
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Re: Perth Compared with other cities

Post by PaxInfo »

tonyp wrote:The huge immigration of the last couple of decades or so has seen an influx of people from parts of the world where they don't mind using public transport or have a background of instinctively using it. I don't think this factor has been sufficiently acknowledged so far. Also the rate of growth of young people getting driving licences has been abating for some years and the average age of drivers is getting older.
The curious thing is that we've had these same factors (even more so) in Melbourne and patronage (especially for buses) has been growing slowly or stagnant.

Whereas Sydney has had less population growth than Melbourne but has had much better patronage growth (including on buses).

Possibly due to the following factors:

Melbourne suffers from having a state government 100% interested in infrastructure but 0% interested in service reform or improvement. Or even getting efficient results from existing resources. Hence parts our train timetables reflect 1978 service cuts and we have main road bus routes that haven't recovered from 1990-era cuts. Plus the influx of (say) overseas students at places like Monash Uni hasn't flowed through to bus service upgrades on key corridors such as Route 733 to Box Hill (which remains on a basic half-hourly frequency despite heavy usage of the services that do run). Some areas with hobby farms get more frequent buses despite low patronage.

Perth would never do this - it would instead be progressively upgrading its university bus routes to 15 min (or better) all-day frequencies. Same with train timetables, with incremental upgrades to frequency at times where it's low eg evenings and Sunday mornings. I think their recent Fremantle - Midland line peak upgrades for the smaller stations will also help overall patronage.

Our infrastructure upgrades (though good) have resulted in mass rail shutdowns and bus replacements. These are bearable on their own but if one relies on 40-60 min frequency feeder buses these are a bridge too far as one can't accurately time one's arrival.

There's also no budget to boost bus services that are adversely affected by long-term works (eg 555 & 561 around Reservoir). Eg instead of funding buses to retain frequency (with increased run times) they'll just cut frequency and make catching a bus chancy. Eg https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/plan/disrupt ... ember-2019
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tonyp
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Re: Perth Compared with other cities

Post by tonyp »

I've received some information about Paris RER Line A which is much admired by Australian double deck fans and often put forward as an example of something better than the Sydney metro. However, these performance figures indicate otherwise. Perth is a bit irrelevant in this comparison because of fewer stations but is included for interest, as well as comparison with the express Sydney examples.
58 km (E=skipping stops train; ICE=intercity express train):

Perth:
Rockingham-Warwick: 12 stops, 47 min (71 km/h)

Sydney Metro:
Tallawong-Marrickville: 20 stops, 62 mins (57 km/h)

Sydney Suburban:

Emu Plains-Central::
21 stops, 75 mins (46 km/h)
(semi-express between Granville and Redfern)
E 14 stops, 66 mins (52 km/h)
(semi-express between Seven Hills and Redfern)
ICE 4 stops, 55 mins (63 km/h)

Paris RER Line A:
Marne-la-Vallee – St-Germain: 22 stops, 72 mins (49 km/h)
(two skipped stops)


63 km:

Perth:
Currambine-Kwinana: 15 stops, 56 mins (66 km/h)

Sydney Metro:
Tallawong-Canterbury: 23 stops, 68 mins (58 km/h)


Paris RER Line A:
Boissy-St-Leger – Cergy-Le-Haut: 24 stops, 80 mins (47 km/h)
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