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[SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:59 pm

Roderick
I think you are suggesting what they are going to do in France with no more TGV as it costs too much to run and that is OK but if you want to go over longer distances you need next generation 1,000kph trains to allow single tunnels which will create a monopoly on busy routes and be economically viable.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Roderick Smith » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:44 pm

Do come up with some energy figures for maglev and tube railways before making blind assertions re comparability with TGV.

Roderick.

July 7 2017 High speed rail between Canberra and Sydney possible by 2032.
Rapid growth on the fringes of Sydney and Melbourne threatens to add billions of dollars to the cost of building a high-speed rail line between the two cities, Infrastructure Australia warns.
The federal government's infrastructure advisory agency says high speed trains could be running between Canberra and Sydney within 15 years, but governments must act quickly to avoid potential cost blowouts.
More videos Government warned: act now on high-speed rail
After decades of discussion, Australia's infrastructure adviser says the government finally needs to take immediate action on a high-speed rail linking Melbourne and Sydney.
A report to be published on Friday by Infrastructure Australia says the governments of NSW and Victoria should get in early and buy land along the proposed rail corridor now, at an estimated cost of $720 million, or pay more than $3.5 billion later.
The agency says a failure to protect the corridor within the next three to five years could do serious harm to a project that will become vital given the populations of Melbourne and Sydney are projected to double by 2060.
The federal government's infrastructure advisory agency says high speed trains could be running between Canberra and Sydney within 15 years.
In its report Corridor Protection, Infrastructure Australia says very fast trains could be running between Sydney and Canberra within 15 years and to Melbourne five years later.
Those dates are based on work beginning on the main Sydney-Melbourne route by 2024, with a Canberra link to open by 2032.
But the job will be made much more difficult if action is not taken soon to protect the proposed route.
IA has identified about 60 kilometres of land on the urban fringes of Australia's two biggest cities that has been earmarked by planners for a future high-speed rail connection, but which is at risk of being gobbled up by developers.
A high-speed rail link between Melbourne and Sydney would pass through Donnybrook, north of Melbourne. Photo: Jason South
In New South Wales, there are concerns for land south of Campbelltown on Sydney's south-eastern edge, and in five locations between Sydney and Newcastle.
The town of Donnybrook sits along the corridor for a future high speed rail line between Melbourne and Sydney. Photo: Jason South
Infrastructure Australia chairman Mark Birrell said New South Wales, Victoria and the Commonwealth had to commit now to acquire the land on which a high-speed rail line for Australia's east coast will one day be built.
Otherwise Australia could blow its chance to build a link for the benefit of future generations.
"It requires governments over the next three to five years to put aside funds which will reap a long-term return," Mr Birrell said.
"If we get this right we will avoid huge cost, disruption and engineering problems."
Infrastructure Australia has valued the at-risk land along the corridor at about $720 million, using data from the NSW and Victorian valuers-general.
The authority argues population growth in Melbourne and Sydney is rapid enough to justify opening the link as early as 2032, initially between Sydney and Canberra.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/high-speed-ra ... x6c1k.html

July 8 2017 ACT government to stop developers using land on high speed rail corridor .
Vast swathes of land in the ACT, earmarked for high speed rail tracks, are to be kept locked down and beyond the reach of housing developers, the ACT government says.
The declaration follows warnings on Friday that the rapid sprawl of housing on the fringes of Sydney and Melbourne threatens to blow the nation's chance of a very fast train network by building over vital corridors for the long-awaited transport project.
More videos Government warned: act now on high-speed rail.
After decades of discussion, Australia's infrastructure adviser says the government finally needs to take immediate action on a high-speed rail linking Melbourne and Sydney.
Infrastructure Australia published a report on Friday saying fast trains could be running between Canberra and Sydney as early as 2032 but warned the NSW and Victorian governments that they must act now to protect the rail corridor from the rapid sprawl on the edges of their capital cities.
In the ACT, where a very fast train has been seen since the 1980s as a potential economic game-changer for the territory's economy, the Labor government says the land needed for the Canberra leg of a high speed rail route is safely out of the clutches of the house builders.
A corridor of land stretching from Canberra Airport, the present preferred site for the end of the spur line that is envisaged running into the ACT, north to the NSW border and broadly following the route the Majura Parkway has been protected from development for some time, Chief Minister Andrew Barr's office said on Friday.
"The ACT government has been involved in the Intergovernmental Working Group on the project to protect the corridor and we have done our bit by ensuring that the land identified by the group would be available if and when the federal government decided to undertake the project," a spokesman for Mr Barr said.
"It's up to other state governments to do the same."
While leases have been granted to landholders along the route, the territory government says the real estate can be made available quickly if a fast rail project gets moving.
Mr Barr's office also said the government was not content with a spur line to Canberra but was pushing for the capital to be part of the main line.
"More recently, the ACT government has been in discussions with the federal government on a number of variations to the project," the spokesman said.
The planned, and an alternative, route for high speed rail into Canberra.
"We have pushed the case that Canberra should not be on a 'spur line' to the main corridor between Sydney and Melbourne, but should be part of the main line.
"The ACT government has also been in discussions about changing the proposed corridor through the ACT, incorporating the Canberra stop at the airport rather than tunnelling through Mount Ainslie.
"We will continue to work with the federal government on these proposals."
Federal Labor MP for Canberra Gai Brodtmann also expressed her enthusiasm for the project on Friday.
"A study conducted by the former Labor government in 2013 found that high speed rail could carry 84 million passengers each year, with express journey times of just 64 minutes between Sydney and Canberra," Ms Brodtmann said.
"A high speed rail link would revolutionise interstate travel for Canberrans."
The Business Council of Australia urged state governments to heed the advice of Infrastructure Australia and get serious about setting land aside for big nation-building projects.
"This report demonstrates that if governments have the foresight to plan ahead and reserve corridors for future infrastructure use, they can realise huge savings when those infrastructure projects are ultimately rolled out," the council's chief executive Jennifer Westacott said on Friday.
Related Articles:
High speed rail to Sydney possible in 15 years .
Development threat calls for commitment to fast rail .
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-new ... x6ihn.html
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:57 am

Hi Roderick

As Magtube has never been done anywhere the only indication of power consumption is that of the 600kph Japanese maglev which obviously would use more by pushing a lot of air.

My guess is in the same density as an aircraft at cruise it would use far less energy than dragging wings along.
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Re: high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:16 pm

Roderick Smith wrote:There is no point going faster than the time taken to commute from / to suburbs, or the time to negotiate convoluted stations, or the time taken to negotiate airport-style security, which such railways will have.


The point is that if trains can go 1,000kph between Melbourne, Albury, Canberra and Sydney then there is only need for a single tunnel connecting them as while the northbound are in tunnels for 15 minutes the southbound are in stations doing a bit of security and giving people plenty of time to get on and off and vice versa.

Actually I just saw a guy on ABC news today saying that is what they are going to do but he called it hyperloop and said only 500kph so he nearly described Magtube.

If you want to check out the 200 seat 5.6m wide carriage it is on google warehouse https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/search ... Class=both
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:44 am

India wants to use Japanese Maglev in existing corridors http://www.ucnews.in/news/Apple-helping ... 42667.html but they will have to do what Elon Musk now wants to do with tunnels https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/07/ny ... -approval/ and https://www.distance-cities.com/distanc ... new-york-n due to air density and g force on the surface.

I never considered what would happen if one farmer decided he did not want a cutting through his farm and HSR could not buy the land http://www.latimes.com/local/california ... story.html
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Re: high-speed rail

Postby Roderick Smith » Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:12 am

High-speed commuter lines are the most extravagant way to commute.
Roderick.

Australia’s high-speed rail plan is a blow to housing affordability Chris Kohler, Aug 9, 2017.
Australia has wasted decades, millions of dollars and countless man-hours pointlessly trying to replace air travel between Sydney and Melbourne with trains, when the only current goal of high-speed rail should be to connect cities with regional hubs.
The Melbourne and Sydney housing affordability story has become a transport story, because as prices have risen so have commute times – and that severely limits options for those trying to buy on a budget.
The train journey from Newcastle and Penrith to Sydney’s CBD is slower now than it was 30 years ago, according to PwC transport expert Robert Williams, and it’s a similar story with Melbourne’s nearest towns and cities.
Current plans for high-speed rail connecting Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane involve a $114 billion price tag and a 50-year time frame. Photo: Chris Ratcliffe Connecting Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane via high-speed rail is hysterically expensive, but connecting places like Geelong and Ballarat to Melbourne, Newcastle and Wollongong to Sydney, and Toowoomba to Brisbane with trips of around 45 minutes is more doable.
And it’s bait.
“Spending [$114 billion] on east coast high-speed rail, which largely benefits wealthy business travellers, frankly … it’s not great politics.”
Robert Williams
Bringing down those commute times from the ballpark of one to 1½ hours each way to about 45 minutes would offer an attractive opportunity to the huge number of Australians currently locked out of major city property markets. They could move to regional hubs and keep their city jobs without sacrificing three hours or more to the daily commute.
For $114 billion you could build five UK-France Channel tunnels. Photo: Chris Ratcliffe, Bloomberg That’s how you ease capital city house prices without having to tamper with negative gearing or capital gains tax exemptions. It’d also help decongest city roads and boost regional development.
Trying to link the cities is where the idea falls apart The current federal high-speed rail plan is expected to cost $114 billion and take another 50 years. Let those numbers sink in and remember that running over budget and time on infrastructure projects is a proud Australian tradition.
A conceptual rendering of a high-speed train on a rail line that will run from Los Angels to San Francisco. Photo: State of California For that much money you could build five UK-France Channel tunnels, Four Hong Kong International Airports, about 60 per cent of the International Space Station, or even, if you’re feeling a bit loose with your inflation adjustments, one Great Wall of China.
That price tag and time frame was cooked up in 2013 during the Department of Infrastructure’s HSR (High-Speed Rail) Phase Two Report, which of course followed a phase one report in 2011, and before that a strategic study, and several advisory boards and committees dating to the mid-1980s.
But instead of putting the whole idea away, the 2017-18 budget included another $20 million in funding to support the development of business cases. A prospectus is on the way and proposals are due in September – three will receive Commonwealth funding.
in 2012 China opened the world’s longest high-speed rail line stretching 16,000km Photo: Reuters.
An alternative to air travel is a want, not a need Unfortunately for fed-up air travellers, a rail alternative to air travel would be an expensive luxury given the level of competition and efficiency shown by the aviation industry.
Thousands of kilometres of rail would need to be laid and tunnels would need to be bored – including underneath the country’s three biggest cities. It’ll cost significantly more than the entire market value of Westpac Bank before maintenance costs even begin.
Now consider that the entire first phase of Sydney’s second airport at Badgerys Creek is expected to cost $1.4 billion.
Give Sydney and Melbourne airports a little credit. In the year to May the Sydney-Melbourne route saw a record 8.94 million passengers, according to the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics. It’s the fourth busiest path in the world, but while passengers often grumble about delays and customer service, the system is far from broken.
Improvement in efficiencies in managing greater numbers of air travellers is being noticed, according to CommSec chief economist Craig James.
“The latest data on domestic aviation activity is further evidence that the economy is doing well,” Mr James said.
“The record number of business people travelling between Sydney and Melbourne further highlights the good conditions being experienced by corporate Australia.”
Melbourne Airport chief executive Lyell Strambi said Melbourne was on track to welcome 60 million passengers annually, as soon as 2033, and predicts its new runway development will be operating between 2022-24.
“A new runway, along with improvements to the capabilities of existing runways and taxiways, is vital infrastructure that will facilitate continued growth in airline services, particularly from international carriers upgrading their fleets with efficient new-generation aircraft,” Mr Strambi said.
A high-speed rail alternative would be great, but it’s not a pressing need.
For the government, a non-committal ‘we’re looking into it’ is the safest bet “Spending [$114 billion] on east coast high-speed rail, which largely benefits wealthy business travellers, frankly, who are currently catching airplanes between those two capital cities… it’s not great politics if you live in western Sydney or Adelaide or Perth, or everywhere else,” Robert Williams, who is responsible for PwC’s Strategy& Defence and Transport practices, told Domain.
“Is that a good use of the nation’s resources given it’s going to need a lot of taxpayer funding?”
Governments don’t like to say no, but given the current HSR estimates assume constructions costs will fall as technologies improve, any current business proposals will have to be decades ahead of the pack if they’re going to be at all useful.
But Australians should prepare themselves for a never-ending supply of high-speed rail studies, committees, advisory boards and feasibility studies – at their expense. Because Australia has a history of doing things this way.
“On Federation the government committed to building a rail link to Darwin, they just didn’t say when they’d build it. There were 27 or 28 studies over the years until they eventually built it in 2003,” Mr Williams said.
“I guess [this high-speed rail project] is a bit like that. The conditions right now are such that it’s not viable…”
Rather than wasting more time and money promising to send trains hurtling up and down the entire east coast, the Department of Infrastructure should strip back its high-speed rail plans and focus only on the area it’d have the biggest impact – everyday commuting.
www.domain.com.au/news/australias-highs ... 809-gxpjzi
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:59 pm

I agree that CLARA would be uneconomical particularly as we do not have an open door immigration policy however a $35b Magtube would be with a guaranteed $2b per year income and very little running costs.

You may be interested in the email I sent to the Boring company.
Hi
Thought you may be interested in the Freeface TBM I designed in Google warehouse that could achieve the one mile per week that Elon wants. https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/search ... face%20tbm

Not only could it achieve up to 10m per hour but no expensive surface drilling would be required as information from the directional drill hole in front would tell when predrive grouting is needed allowing it to penetrate any geology.

This directional drill hole would also be used to anchor the 1,000t pull ram while the wheels would provide the turning force allowing an insitue primary slipform to be immediately behind the wheels.

As the slipform would have to be done at the same time as cutting I think a train with supply flat top, concrete wagon, muck wagons and outbye loco may be better than conveyor especially as I want to do 50km drives Sydney to Melbourne with Magtube.

Apart from eliminating the main bearing by stepping the discs back it provides a second free face like blasting or using a jackhammer thereby reducing greatly the load and wear on the discs.

Regards Eddy
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High-speed rail

Postby Roderick Smith » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:41 pm

Roderick.

August 22 2017 NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian warms to idea of bullet trains for NSW.
Tokyo: NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian says she wants to see bullet trains in NSW, reversing her previous scepticism of high speed rail.
Ms Berejiklian told the Herald: "Of course we would love to see high speed rail servicing our State but for this to be viable it would need to travel beyond NSW and it would require federal involvement."
More videos Government warned: act now on high-speed rail.
After decades of discussion, Australia's infrastructure adviser says the government finally needs to take immediate action on a high-speed rail linking Melbourne and Sydney.
The Premier has raised the prospect of bullet trains for NSW, but only if a high-speed rail network crossed the state border and connected major cities.
Ms Berejiklian had previously been cold on the idea of high-speed rail, which is now common in Asia and could significantly cut travel time between Sydney, Canberra and Melbourne.
But two days of meetings in Tokyo, the home of the bullet train, with Japan's top bankers appear to have prompted the shift in her position.
"I think it is getting closer and closer to the time we can start thinking about having fast rail services in NSW," Ms Berejiklian told a business audience in Tokyo on Tuesday.
"It would have to be beyond the boundaries of one state to make it viable, I think. It would have to be potentially be a Sydney-Melbourne service to make it viable."
She acknowledged her attitude change, recalling the last time she was in Tokyo as transport minister she had told people "don't hold your breath" waiting for fast rail to come to Australia.
Ian Thorpe and NSW premier Gladys Berejiklian toured the Olympic swimming venue in Tokyo. Photo: Supplied But Ms Berejiklian said on Tuesday NSW's train services were "in an evolution" and catching up to Japan, which was at least a generation ahead of the world.
Bullet trains travel at speeds of 240-320 kilometres an hour and could cut the travel time between Sydney and Melbourne to less than three hours.
Express trains in Japan can travel at speeds of up to 320km/h. Photo: Bloomberg .
Federal Transport Minister Darren Chester travelled on a high-speed train in China last month and said the experience was "quite staggering", and Australia was "envious" of the way China's high-speed trains had not only shortened the travel time between Chinese cities but sped up the entire rail network.
A fortnight before his high-speed rail trip, Mr Chester had also poured cold water on bullet trains in Australia, saying high-speed rail was "a long way off in the future".
High-speed rail has long been debated in Australia, but nothing has been done because of the perception Australia's sparse population meant the service wouldn't be economically viable.
But an Infrastructure Australia report last month concluded population growth would make a Sydney-to-Melbourne high-speed rail link viable by 2032.
It warned state governments needed to act in the next three to five years to secure a land corridor for a high-speed rail route, at an estimated cost of $720 million, before rising property prices made it unaffordable.
Infrastructure Australia chairman Mark Burrell complained high-speed rail was continually pushed to the bottom of government priority lists.
Japanese and Chinese rail companies could be expected to be competing bidders, should Australia proceed with its first high-speed rail line.
Mitsui executives met with Ms Berejiklian on Monday and gave her a copy of a press clipping from the August 20, 1901, edition of The Sydney Morning Herald, which recorded the arrival of Japanese merchant Mr C. Asano of the trading house Mitsui Busan Keisha in Sydney to look for business opportunities.
Mr Asano told the Herald reporter he would travel to Melbourne by Japanese steamer, and return by train. Mitsui is part of a consortium, Consolidated Land and Rail Australia,that was pushing a privately funded bid for high speed rail between Sydney and Melbourne earlier this year.
Mitsui and bullet train operator East Japan Railway this month struck a deal in Britain to run inter-regional services and a Birmingham metro, and are competing for a British high-speed rail contract. HongKong's MTR and a Chinese rail company are bidding for a second British high-speed rail tender.
MTR will operate NSW's first private railway, the Sydney Metro North West. Federal governments have previously released reports into high-speed rail in 2011 and 2013.
The Turnbull government is expected to call for proposals next month to develop business cases for faster inter city rail connections, although not necessarily bullet trains.
Ms Berejiklian said high speed rail was expensive and "all relevant options" would need to be considered to improve transport to regional areas and between major cities.
"This includes improving the performance of existing networks, rather than solely focusing on new alternative infrastructure," she told Fairfax Media.
She said Australia's small population was challenging and this meant to get faster trains, they "can't stop everywhere".
She said the punctuality of services and "selflessness" of staff working in Japan's transport system had inspired her as minister to try to change the culture of the Sydney transport system.
"These were notions that had been lost on NSW for some time... I am very proud of the fact we have changed that culture in NSW. We have a much more customer centric organisation."
Former Olympian Ian Thorpe joined Ms Berejiklian on Tuesday to tour an Olympic swimming venue in Tokyo, and later recycled his mobile phone in a ceremony with Tokyo governor Yuriko Koike.
Tokyo is turning the gold and silver from recycled mobile phones into medals for the 2020 Olympics to send a message of sustainability.
Thorpe is an ambassador for the Tokyo 2020 Olympics.
Related Articles:
Houses may block fast rail between Canberra and Sydney .
www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-premier-gladys-b ... y1rwm.html
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:53 am

This is what I put on another forum.

Gladys refers to the Bullet train as the “next generation train” when in fact they are last century technology to a lot of the world and France is only going to build one more as they cost too much to run.

The next generation train in many people’s opinion will kill air traffic on existing heavily used routes between big cities and go 1,000 kph with maglev in density reduced tunnels so any money spent on buying a corridor would be wasted.

If just Sydney to Canberra is done first there may be one million passengers a year use it but if over the same ten-year period the three states build Sydney, Canberra, Albury to Melbourne at $500m per year each matched by the feds there would be a guaranteed ten million passengers per year so it would pay for itself.

What we do not want to do is waste money on building a track that is limited to 600kph.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:32 am

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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:16 am

Tonymercury wrote:Somebody better tell teh Swedes -

https://www.smartrailworld.com/sweden-a ... e=facebook


It may work or they may find out the hard way like France where 40% of the HSR ticket price goes to using the track and many are using slower trains or even planes to save a buck.

What I see happening is they will reduce them to an economical speed.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:51 pm

eddy wrote:
many are using slower trains or even planes to save a buck.


And your source for this is?
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:02 pm

Tonymercury wrote:
eddy wrote:
many are using slower trains or even planes to save a buck.


And your source for this is?


https://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpe ... ance-s-tgv
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:29 am

Paywall!
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:32 am

Meanwhile, at Hong Kong Disneyland with its own fantasy rides -

http://www.scmp.com/business/article/21 ... nd-tourism
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:32 am

Tonymercury wrote:Meanwhile, at Hong Kong Disneyland with its own fantasy rides -

http://www.scmp.com/business/article/21 ... nd-tourism


It may work it all depends on the world economy I think.

My dad who had been through the depression told me many times that the reason he owned a mixed business was because people always needed food.

In the article he said it is a golden opportunity and I thought it is a golden opportunity to build a density reduced next generation 1,000kph train that would not need so much scrutiny being a theme park and people would come from all over the world to ride it and learn how to do it.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:30 am

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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:45 pm



Remember they do not realise how much it costs to run them particularly as they age
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:44 am

eddy wrote:
Remember they do not realise how much it costs to run them particularly as they age


And you know this because?



And meanwhile in London -
https://www.globalrailnews.com/2017/08/ ... ion-works/
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:35 am

Tonymercury wrote:
eddy wrote:
Remember they do not realise how much it costs to run them particularly as they age


And you know this because?



And meanwhile in London -
https://www.globalrailnews.com/2017/08/ ... ion-works/


I have read a bit about the maintenance costs of wheels and rail over 250 kph but it is mainly the French TGV experience that makes me think they will reduce the speed to HS2 level in an attempt to make it economically viable.

China may be different with many unemployed miners and lower safety standards.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:27 am

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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:38 am

eddy wrote:
I have read a bit about the maintenance costs of wheels and rail over 250 kph but it is mainly the French TGV experience that makes me think they will reduce the speed to HS2 level in an attempt to make it economically viable.

China may be different with many unemployed miners and lower safety standards.



And the japanese have been keeping this a secret since 1964 and the French since 1981?
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:02 am

Tonymercury wrote:
eddy wrote:
I have read a bit about the maintenance costs of wheels and rail over 250 kph but it is mainly the French TGV experience that makes me think they will reduce the speed to HS2 level in an attempt to make it economically viable.

China may be different with many unemployed miners and lower safety standards.



And the japanese have been keeping this a secret since 1964 and the French since 1981?


Maybe that is the key and they will have to privatise the TGV like Japan had to although I think their electricity supply could be a factor where they export power to Germany for half the domestic price.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:18 pm

back in China again -

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017 ... 803809.htm


Enjoy the Chinglish!
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