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[SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:16 am

Evidently Brazil has had trouble finding an investor for high speed rail and now are offering US $35 per train per km http://tunneltalk.com/Brazil-Feb13-Rio- ... d-rail.php but perhaps they are going to run more trains than us and it really is the initial cost of the line that is daunting.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby lunchbox » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:15 pm

KAZAKHSTAN,

yes, Kazakhstan, is not just planning high speed rail, it has placed an order! The 1000 km line will link Astana and Almaty. Almaty has a population of just 1.5 million. (Sydney has over 4 million). Top speed will be 250kph and it will be operational in 4 years, for the Astana World Expo.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby boxythingy » Sat May 03, 2014 4:45 pm

Not sure where to place this, but it's sort of related. All talk of High Speed Rail has gone silent since the election of the new government


Also one of the potential agencies Tony Abbott wants to sell off is the ARTC, another sign he does not give a f*ck about railways.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby boxythingy » Sat May 03, 2014 4:52 pm

lunchbox wrote:KAZAKHSTAN,

yes, Kazakhstan, is not just planning high speed rail, it has placed an order! The 1000 km line will link Astana and Almaty. Almaty has a population of just 1.5 million. (Sydney has over 4 million). Top speed will be 250kph and it will be operational in 4 years, for the Astana World Expo.


Mind you, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursultan_Nazarbayev this guy is and has been the only President since the USSR collapsed.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby crazyturbo76 » Sat May 03, 2014 5:03 pm

boxythingy wrote:Mind you, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursultan_Nazarbayev this guy is and has been the only President since the USSR collapsed.

Kazhakstan itself has made it harder to get that guy out of power; they've allowed him to re-seek the presidency as many times as they want.

And yes, most of the media lately have gone hush hush on high-speed rail-and obviously there will obviously be no money in the next five Budgets to pay for it either.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby lunchbox » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:08 am

Anthony Albanese has re-launched his Bill to create a High Speed Rail Authority in charge of detailed planning work on a high speed rail line linking Melbourne, Canberra, Sydney and Brisbane.

The shadow minister for infrastructure, transport, cities and regional development originally introduced the High Speed Rail Planning Authority Bill 2016 in May this year, but accused the Government of stalling in the lead-up to the May 9 dissolution of Parliament.

On Monday, 21 November 2016, Albanese re-launched the Bill, saying it was time for the Government to take a real look at high speed rail.
(Source - "Rail Express")
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Fleet Lists » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:18 am

That seems to contradict the post which started this thread

The federal Transport Minister, Anthony Albanese, has flagged concerns about building a high-speed rail network across Australia's east coast.

A rail network linking Melbourne and Brisbane is currently the subject of a federal government study.

But in a speech to the Sydney Institute on Monday night Mr Albanese said building a high-speed rail network would be costly and disruptive.

He said the proposed network would involve laying over 1750 kilometres of track and up to 144 kilometres of tunneling, much of which would need to run directly through Sydney.

It could also create environmental problems, including high noise levels.

"As a High Speed Rail train passes, the noise level will reach 100 decibels", Mr Albanese said, while noting that he was not necessarily arguing against the project.
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The NSW government has previously mooted the idea of locating a second airport in Canberra, which could be connected to Sydney by a high-speed rail link.

But Mr Albanese last night said the need for building a second Sydney airport was now plain as the capacity of the existing airport at Kingsford Smith begins to reach its limits:

"It is imperative that we act sooner rather than later," he said while noting a government study that found unmet demand for air travel in Sydney could come with a national cost of $6 billion by 2035 and $34 billion by 2060.

Passenger numbers at Sydney's airport were projected to double by 2035, Mr Albanese said.

"Saying no to a second airport for Sydney is saying no to jobs, no to economic growth, and no to Sydney's future position as a global city," the Minister said. "Sydney is already losing out on economic activity, and growth is slowing compared to its rivals of Melbourne and Brisbane."

and the situation with the second airport has also changed since then.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:03 pm

Edit
I deleted this link because the guy was just pretending to be interested.
Last edited by eddy on Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby simonl » Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:45 am

Why not Adelaide if we are putting forward this foaming fantasy again.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:28 pm

simonl wrote:Why not Adelaide if we are putting forward this foaming fantasy again.


It would not be economically viable
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Lt. Commander Data » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:09 pm

And the rest of it would be?
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:09 pm

Well not HSR around everywhere with dubious patronage or Hyperloop that could never work but three single tunnels linking Melbourne ,Albury, Canberra with Sydney costing $35b and killing off $1b a year in air traffic would be.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:32 pm

Look what they are doing in China with magtube
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2010/08/ve ... train.html

Here is my schedule for Melbourne, Albury, Canberra and Parramatta.

Perhaps the way to go is using 7 driverless trains.

Trains are in stations for 15 minutes while the southbound trains are in the three tunnels then vice versa.

All trains must have arrived at the station before the opposite direction has access to the tunnels.

As carriages could be 5.6m wide with ten seats per row and a train capacity of 3,000 seats, there would never be a problem with one every 15 minutes in the peaks.

$35b and ten years work for three single tunnels for a one and a quarter hour single seat ride.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Campbelltown busboy » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:03 pm

eddy wrote:Here is my schedule for Melbourne, Albury, Canberra and Parramatta.

Perhaps the way to go is using 7 driverless trains.

Trains are in stations for 15 minutes while the southbound trains are in the three tunnels then vice versa.

All trains must have arrived at the station before the opposite direction has access to the tunnels.

As carriages could be 5.6m wide with ten seats per row and a train capacity of 3,000 seats, there would never be a problem with one every 15 minutes in the peaks.

$35b and ten years work for three single tunnels for a one and a quarter hour single seat ride.
That idea sounds more like a Melbourne-Canberra-Parramatta metro line rather then a Melbourne-Canberra-Sydney high speed rail line is there such a thing as high speed driverless trains in exsistince
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:43 am

That is a good question because I am not aware of any even though it is too fast for a driver to be of much use in my understanding

Honestly I think Australia will wait until it has been proven overseas and buy it off the shelf in 20 years

Edit
Maybe with Abe in America offering $150b for infrastructure and them not wanting maglev perhaps we could get them to kick the can to put their technology in Magtube.

I sent an email off to Arthur Sinodinos this morning and he may even get back to me so there is hope.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:31 am

This is the email I sent off to the International maglev board this morning.

As Japan has too much air resistance and America wants to stick with steel rails I believe my proposal has the best chance of happening in the world reaching 1,000 kph in cheap single tunnels with reduced pressure through the exhaust valves either end of each tunnel.

I assume Japanese maglev technology would be bidirectional.

Regards Eddy Barnett
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby neilrex » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:39 pm

Turnbull now wants a whole bunch of new tunnels in the Snowy mountains, building a series of tunnels directly from Canberra to Holbrook doesn't sound too hard.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby simonl » Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:52 pm

Somewhat off topic there
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:51 am

neilrex wrote:Turnbull now wants a whole bunch of new tunnels in the Snowy mountains, building a series of tunnels directly from Canberra to Holbrook doesn't sound too hard.


Apart from times of war people are generally reluctant to put money into new technology except in the case of the Sydney Opera House that ended up costing 14 times the initial budget but they sure learned a lot.

I am a firm believer in people learning while they do rather it just being done in universities with outdated ideas so even though TBM have come a long way in ten years there is still a need for one TBM that can penetrate hard rock, soft ground and squeezing ground with ability to drill well ahead of it for pre drive grouting and outburst protection etc. especially as rail and tunnels go hand in hand.

Coupled with this is the need to provide muck removal that may even done by pipeline like the 70km one at Cadia gold mine http://www.rexelautomation.com.au/news/ ... -australia and a cool air supply that could be done by piping compressed air to the face that would reduce temperature when returned to atmospheric pressure.

Robotics would have to be used extensively with some operators driving it from the surface for increased safety as already has been done under the mosque where westerners were not allowed and Australia is in a great position to excel with its own TBM manufacturer in Tasmania and a grand history of mining eventually reducing the cost of tunnels to a fraction of what it is today.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby Tonymercury » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:50 am

eddy wrote:
Apart from times of war people are generally reluctant to put money into new technology except in the case of the Sydney Opera House that ended up costing 14 times the initial budget but they sure learned a lot.


And that ended up being worth it, in tourism dollars alone, without the other benefits.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:18 am

Tonymercury wrote:
eddy wrote:
Apart from times of war people are generally reluctant to put money into new technology except in the case of the Sydney Opera House that ended up costing 14 times the initial budget but they sure learned a lot.


And that ended up being worth it, in tourism dollars alone, without the other benefits.


I agree totally even though it is too small for the job it is sort of unique and people come from all over the world to check it out.

In the past people would travel across the globe to see and experience new technology and perhaps if we had the fastest train in the world people would do the same now.
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby neilrex » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:38 pm

How is that öff topic, it is the direct route for high speed rail from Sydney via Canberra to Melbourne.
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Re: high-speed rail

Postby Roderick Smith » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:21 pm

Roderick.


July 7 2017 Act now on high-speed rail or pay heavy price later: Infrastructure Australia .
Australia must act now to secure the future of high-speed rail between Melbourne and Sydney by acquiring key land, the nation's infrastructure adviser warns.
Future housing on the fringes of the two cities threatens to add billions to the project's cost, Infrastructure Australia says.
More videos How to get to work faster .
The future productivity and quality of life in Australia's big cities will hinge on the efficiency of our transport networks.
The governments of NSW and Victoria must move to buy the land along the proposed high-speed rail corridor now, at an estimated cost of $720 million, or pay more than $3.5 billion later, it is claimed.
Infrastructure Australia says a failure to protect the corridor within the next three to five years could do serious harm to a project Australia will eventually need to build to deal with a projected doubling of the populations of Melbourne and Sydney by 2060.
A high-speed rail link between Melbourne and Sydney would pass through Donnybrook, north of Melbourne. Photo: Jason South .
It has identified about 60 kilometres of land on the urban fringes of the two cities that has been earmarked by planners for a future high-speed rail connection, but which is at risk of being gobbled up by developers.
graphic
In Victoria, this includes land in Coolaroo, Campbellfield, Beveridge, Wallan and Donnybrook.
In NSW, there are concerns for land south of Campbelltown on Sydney's south-western edge, and in five locations between Sydney and Newcastle.
Infrastructure Australia chairman Mark Birrell said the governments of NSW and Victoria, and the federal government, had to commit now and work together to acquire the land for high-speed rail.
Otherwise Australia could blow its chance to build a link that would benefit future generations.
graphic
"It requires governments over the next three to five years to put aside funds which will reap a long-term return," Mr Birrell said. "If we get this right we will avoid huge cost, disruption and engineering problems."
Infrastructure Australia has valued the at-risk land along the corridor at about $720 million using data from the NSW and Victorian valuers-general.
It estimates the land would cost at least $3.5 billion to acquire if it is sold to developers.
In a policy paper released on Friday, Corridor Protection, the authority argues population growth in Melbourne and Sydney is rapid enough to justify opening the link as early as 2032, initially between Sydney and Canberra.
The Melbourne-Canberra leg would open in 2037 and the line would eventually extend to Brisbane, perhaps by 2056.
A V/Line train at Donnybrook railway station, on the corridor for a future high-speed rail line to Sydney.
A V/Line train at Donnybrook station, on the corridor for a future east coast high-speed rail line. Picture: Jason South But Mr Birrell said the project's long-term development phase meant it was continually pushed to the bottom of government priority lists.
"No one is saying we won't need high-speed rail in 20 years, but to do that you need to preserve the corridor now," he said. "Otherwise there will be unnecessary and expensive tunnelling, compulsory acquisitions and the likelihood of community distrust."
Melbourne's EastLink tollway and the planned Badgerys Creek airport in western Sydney are two good examples of long-term corridor protection that will produce multi-generational benefits, the paper argues.
EASTLINK TOLLWAY Photo shows the first monday morning of traffic on the Eastlink Tollway . Photo by Jason South for THE AGE 30th June 2008 Melbourne's EastLink on the day it opened. Photo: Jason South The land for EastLink was preserved in the early 1970s and the road opened almost four decades later in 2008.
It is also unlikely Western Sydney Airport would be proceeding now had the land not been protected in the 1980s and 1990s, the paper says.
Transport for NSW said it would consider Infrastructure Australia's report and was already taking steps to identify the transport corridors needed to service future population growth.
"We are doing the homework now to deliver the best possible transport and land use outcomes into the coming decades," a spokeswoman said.
The Andrews government was contacted for comment.
http://www.theage.com.au/national/act-n ... x63fz.html
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Re: [SMH] Albanese concerned about high-speed rail

Postby eddy » Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:19 pm

Next generation trains will have to be in reduced atmosphere tunnels as pushing air and maintenance costs of wheels cannot compete against planes https://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpe ... ance-s-tgv

Although single tunnels between cities will halve the build cost they would need 1,000kph maglev so rather than conserving corridors it would be better to start building the tunnels now assuming in ten years the maglev will be even better.

By eliminating the resistance of wings in the same reduced density Magtube would have the monopoly between Melbourne, Albury, Canberra and Sydney (Auto alley with a new station that will accommodate metro west) with a northern Magtube built later.

Completing the Sydney to Melbourne section in ten years would create a monopoly sooner than building it in stages so getting a return earlier and it could easily be done with $500m each state each year matched by the federal government.

Australians would love to have a government asset that returns $2b per year for the next 200 years.
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high-speed rail

Postby Roderick Smith » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:35 pm

There is no point going faster than the time taken to commute from / to suburbs, or the time to negotiate convoluted stations, or the time taken to negotiate airport-style security, which such railways will have.

Roderick.

Infrastructure Australia says the government needs to act now to avoid stuffing up high speed rail
news.com.au July 8, 2017.
AUSTRALIA could stuff up the high speed rail corridor if it does not act now.
The first link between Sydney and Canberra could be finished by 2032, and the whole link from Brisbane to Sydney to Melbourne could be completed by 2056.
But there’s a risk if the government does not commit to the rail project now, with development creeping towards the high speed rail corridor along the east coast.
Infrastructure Australia warns this path way should be the most urgent priority.
“The critical corridor faces immediate pressure due to its proximity to major population centres and should be a key focus for NSW, Victorian and federal governments,” Infrastructure Australia chairman Mark Birrell said on Friday.
“A co-ordinated approach, involving joint governance arrangements to oversee land acquisition, joint funding commitments and joint agreement regarding land use management measures will keep governments at both levels committed to the urgent task at hand.”
CBD station locations for high speed east coast rail. Picture: Infrastructure Australia.
Infrastructure Australia identified seven corridors as national priority and said protecting the land could save taxpayers $10.8 billion.
“Protecting seven of the corridors identified on the recently revised Infrastructure Priority List could save Australian taxpayers close to $11 billion,” Mr Birrell said.
“To put that sum in perspective, it is the equivalent of more than two years’ spending by the Australian Government on land transport such as major roads, railways and local roads.
“If we protect infrastructure corridors we will reduce project costs and especially minimise the need for underground tunnelling, where the cost to government and therefore taxpayers can be up to 10 times higher.”
In an Infrastructure Australia report, Corridor Protection, it highlighted about 60km of land on the fringe of both Melbourne and Sydney that needs to be preserved for the high speed rail link between Australia’s east coast cities. But developers do pose a risk to high speed rail if they get to it first.
Map shows route of east coast high speed rail. Picture: Infrastructure Australia.
“Meeting Australia’s future growth challenges requires long-term vision,” Mr Birrell said.
“As our cities and regions undergo a period of considerable change, strategically important infrastructure corridors need to be preserved early in their planning to avoid cost overruns, delays and community disruption during the project delivery phase.
“Australia’s governments have an immediate opportunity to deliver an enduring infrastructure legacy to future generations.
“The M4, M5 and M7 motorways in Sydney, the M1 and EastLink motorways in Melbourne and the rail line to Mandurah south of Perth are excellent examples where the foresight to protect infrastructure corridors allowed our cities to thrive and accommodate their growing populations.”
Federal infrastructure minister Darren Chester said protecting and acquiring corridors was primarily a matter for the states and territories.
“The Coalition government is working with the states to ensure they are undertaking long term planning to protect corridors for any potential future rail corridors,” a spokesman said.
“However, any potential high-speed rail between our capital cities is a long way off in the future.”
The government was instead focused on faster rail connections between capital cities and major regional centres.
Opposition infrastructure spokesman Anthony Albanese concedes fast speed rail tracks won’t appear overnight, but says it makes sense to start planning, believing the east coast link will be established within 20 years. “You can’t make a decision today and then get on a train tomorrow. What you can do though, is plan today for tomorrow,” he told ABC radio.
AAP http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/infras ... 1c4a3e25dc
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