• Advertisement

Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

General Transport Discussion not specific to one state

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby CompoDelgroCurryman » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:02 pm

Im actually working up here driving for a contracted company ....
Will give my opinions at the end of the event !!
Watch this space
CompoDelgroCurryman
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:47 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby CompoDelgroCurryman » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:54 pm

Reo wrote:Interstate and Intrastate buses have begun arriving on the Gold Coast to help out with the Commonwealth Games. Does anyone know where all these extra buses will be 'housed' during their stay ?

Yard A and B Coomera . Days rd , thats where im parked
CompoDelgroCurryman
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:47 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby CompoDelgroCurryman » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:33 pm

One more night to . A lot of busses a d coaches have already left.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but 6 years supposedly in planning , i must say the organisers have fallen short of expectations !!!!
CompoDelgroCurryman
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 10:47 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:25 am

CompoDelgroCurryman wrote:Im actually working up here driving for a contracted company ....
Will give my opinions at the end of the event !!
Watch this space

Looking forward to hearing your opinions!

I understand that about 2.5 million people were carried by public transport during the games, of which 1.2 million were by tram.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6907
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby 1of55 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:59 pm

A news item from the Gold Coast Bulletin 19 April 2018-04-19 ‘State ‘gets cracking’ on light rail business case’

‘More than 1.1 million people’ (less than 1.2 million, an estimate anyway as many were traveling free and there are no passenger counters on the trams) ‘used the light rail during the commonwealth games as momentum builds behind the southern extension of the tram system.’
The news item goes on to say how the Minister is planning to spend $600 million to extend the tram to Burleigh Heads. (Not to the Gold Coast airport which is further on, passengers and their luggage will have to continue to use the buses)
I have no objection to the Gold Coast having a good transport system ( The CGCC are again chipping in presumably) but resources are finite and many areas within 60 klm of Brisbane have no bus or rail public transport, except school buses, and could well do with some money spent on public transport in those areas.
Surfside in my view have provided a comprehensive bus service to the Gold Coast and Northern NSW area, round the clock on some routes.
Attachments
XDi 367 8 3 2014.jpg
On the way to Burleigh Heads
XDi 367 8 3 2014.jpg (196.7 KiB) Viewed 392 times
1of55
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:08 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:51 pm

There are counters on the trams, plus head counts were being taken. Information from KD is that 50% more people than anticipated used the trams - nearly four times the normal daily average. That indicates, not only the significantly greater capacity of a tram service, but the ability to absorb sudden huge increases in demand.

Nothing wrong at all with bus operations but they have less capacity and have an important role as feeder services. It's lucky that the light rail is there on the main corridor though. Buses would never have been able to handle that level of additional demand. I believe Gold Coast is also saddled with those silly little Bustech buses with loading and unloading through the front door only. If there was a fleet of nice big Volgren three-door artics, the buses might start doing some serious work. Brisbane should learn some lessons from this event but they won't.

Burleigh Heads is only stage three of the light rail. the next stage after that is to reach the airport.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6907
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby Merc1107 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:09 am

In relation to the brief discourse on Perth Stadium; so far it has been realised that not only are the Stadium buses quicker and easier to utilise than the railway network, but they are carrying significantly greater numbers of passengers than expected... If only articulated buses could be utilised :shock:
The operation changes a bit from week-to-week; although the majority of hiccups have now been dealt with and passengers are whisked away quickly and effectively.

The issue we have is that most feeder services are only hourly on weekends (which at this time of year is when events are predominantly occurring), meaning many people are still journeying in their cars. Information about en-route connections with Stadium Buses (i.e. "at this stop, you can change to x bus, operating every x minutes") is not provided.
Additionally, patronage from those travelling for free with their tickets is not counted if they board a regularly scheduled service.
Merc1107
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:38 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Favourite Vehicle: 'All' High-Floor Units

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:51 pm

Merc1107 wrote:In relation to the brief discourse on Perth Stadium; so far it has been realised that not only are the Stadium buses quicker and easier to utilise than the railway network, but they are carrying significantly greater numbers of passengers than expected... If only articulated buses could be utilised :shock:
The operation changes a bit from week-to-week; although the majority of hiccups have now been dealt with and passengers are whisked away quickly and effectively.

The issue we have is that most feeder services are only hourly on weekends (which at this time of year is when events are predominantly occurring), meaning many people are still journeying in their cars. Information about en-route connections with Stadium Buses (i.e. "at this stop, you can change to x bus, operating every x minutes") is not provided.
Additionally, patronage from those travelling for free with their tickets is not counted if they board a regularly scheduled service.

Perth stadium is the highest-capacity venue in Australia to be served exclusively by public transport, which is a very high bar for PTA to aim for, but do it they must because there's no provision for cars. When you say people are driving, this must be to the other side of the river from where they must walk or catch a bus or train. The last leg to the venue cannot possibly be by car.

Of course the buses are well run - there's Transperth's class act and there's the blundering rest of Australia's bus systems! Like the rest of Australia, they could certainly use many more more artics though, proper low-floor, three door ones with real passenger-processing capability (including all-door loading at events), not the compromised high-floor two-door ones like in Canberra and Adelaide. The Australian artic fleet is nowhere near big enough for the growing patronage in our cities, though Volgren recently announced that there was a large upswing in demand for them, which is great if sustained.

I always felt that it might be a struggle with the trains at Perth stadium because they mostly have to stop and reverse, which always constricts an operation. The major former tram systems in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Brisbane and especially Sydney were looped at major venues so that the trams could run through in one-directional streams, which gave them huge and rapid crowd-moving capacity. It's the model that's still used in Europe but seemingly forgotten in most of the rest of the world. Although there is probably ground-space for looping at Burswood, it would no doubt have added significantly to the cost of the project and has to be supported by fleet size and capacity to absorb the extra trains on other parts of the system.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6907
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby Merc1107 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:03 pm

tonyp wrote:When you say people are driving, this must be to the other side of the river from where they must walk or catch a bus or train. The last leg to the venue cannot possibly be by car.
I think there are a limited number of parking spaces somewhere nearby, there are definitely a few spots just near Great Eastern Highway. Traffic is definitely heavy on the arterial roads near the Stadium prior to, and following events. So they have to be coming from somewhere.
tonyp wrote:including all-door loading at events
All door loading takes place for vehicles leaving. For inbound services, the usual single-door loading practice would theoretically be the rule, as valid event tickets should be presented by passengers (and checked). For outbound services, supervisors on all stands ensures all vehicles leave loaded to capacity.

I agree more articulated buses are necessary, although in Perth's case, a number of vehicles are tied up in the 'far reaches' of suburbia to deal with the loadings associated with school specials/deviations. You'd have a better opinion than I would as to whether two rigid buses (and all associated costs of double the maintenance, service kilometres, two drivers versus one etc) would be more cost-effective. I'd personally lean towards "No."
Last edited by Merc1107 on Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Merc1107
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:38 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Favourite Vehicle: 'All' High-Floor Units

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:22 pm

Merc1107 wrote:I think there are a limited number of parking spaces somewhere nearby, there are definitely a few spots just near Great Eastern Highway. Traffic is definitely heavy on the arterial roads near the Stadium prior to, and following events. So they have to be coming from somewhere. not

Perhaps the Casino is allowing event parking and/or they're parking in the industrial and residential areas on the other side of the railway and/or they're being let into the racecourse? Either way they have a pretty long hike on foot to get there.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6907
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby Merc1107 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:14 pm

tonyp wrote:Perhaps the Casino is allowing event parking

Perhaps. What is happening are cars entering the area via what is cordoned off as "Buses Only" during events (just east of Vic. Park Transfer Station), only to be told to "Go Away" maybe 100m up the road. I suspect it is event-goers trying to be cheeky and thinking "Oh we can get away with parking/setting down/picking up here." Were the "Bus Only" to be enforced with a fine, it would quickly eliminate the issue. With modern technology, I doubt it would be hard to do, and there's the added benefit of the revenue for the state coffers :lol:
Merc1107
 
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:38 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 46 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Favourite Vehicle: 'All' High-Floor Units

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:19 pm

Leaving aside Perth, it will be interesting to hear an overview of the Games bus operations.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6907
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby krustyklo » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:39 pm

The major former tram systems in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Brisbane and especially Sydney were looped at major venues so that the trams could run through in one-directional streams, which gave them huge and rapid crowd-moving capacity.

There was a discussion in the Melbourne forums comparing articulated buses vs. standard rigid buses. With the added complications of design in an articulated bus, the claim was they were 2.5x the cost of a standard rigid bus. The other key issue is limited roads they can operate on compared to rigid buses. It was felt in conclusion that the added complications and upfront cost were not worth it compared to just running 2 rigid buses, plus the advantages of a homogeneous fleet that can operate anywhere and be easily moved around. I'm not sure if artic drivers get paid more than "normal" drivers but a work acquaintance has a friend who drives artics for a Melbourne bus company so I'll try and remember to ask. If so, this would be another important factor in increased running costs and less operational flexibility.

The major former tram systems in Perth, Adelaide, Melbourne, Brisbane and especially Sydney were looped at major venues so that the trams could run through in one-directional streams, which gave them huge and rapid crowd-moving capacity.

Apart from the fact most of Melbourne's tram system is not "former" :wink: , it doesn't currently have loops available for special events. In fact, there aren't many special events where trams are moving the bulk of the load. The Showgrounds tend to be primarily served by train nowadays (for smaller events special trams were run with no trains, but since stabling trains commenced at Flemington, the preferred option seems to be to use otherwise out of service trains to serve things like exams at no extra expense, or to run train services) although in the past trams were used more prominently, especially for smaller events. Events at the MCG, Rod Laver, or AAMI park usually have extra tram services shuttling (crossing over at traditional crossovers at Wellington Pde or the siding in the reserve just past the MCG / Hisense / Rod Laver stop) but for anything significant extra rail services do the bulk of the work. The Grand Prix is probably the only really significant event purely served by trams, and in this case Swanston St routes terminate just short (usually to the east) of Swanston St with tram shuttles for both regular and event patronage, and light rail services are replaced by buses with dedicated tram shuttles between Spencer St and Middle Park, again using crossovers. Even then, I suspect the decision to replace the former rail lines with trams might be considered to be short sighted given the patronage from this and the densification of Port Melbourne and St Kilda.

Etihad stadium is next to Southern Cross and extra trains are usually provided - I'm not even sure if extra trams run!

Other than the Showgrounds, Etihad Stadium, sporting / event precinct around the MCG / Tennis Centre, and Albert Park, I can't think of any major venues in Melbourne served by tram, let alone exclusively, let alone with a loop! The only loop in use left on the system seems to be the City Circle.
User avatar
krustyklo
 
Posts: 2622
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:12 am
Location: Bundoora, VIC
Has thanked: 182 times
Been thanked: 277 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby tonyp » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:22 pm

I understand that artics cost about 50% more than a 12 metre rigid and they can run on any route that a 12 metre rigid can. Artics are more cost-effective in high loading / high turnover operations just by virtue of the fact that only one driver is needed to move over 50% more people than a 12 metre rigid bus can (i.e. 1.5 equivalent rigid bus drivers to do the same job).

The use of turning loops (operating like a bus in effect) is something that the tram systems used to use (Melbourne's loops were at Caulfield and St Kilda). In the case of Melbourne I meant that this was a method that was formerly used, but of course it's not a "former" tram system! In Sydney the trams moved 60,000 or more people in less than an hour out of Sydney Cricket Ground and Randwick Racecourse thanks to their turning loops which allowed the trams to run continuously in a virtually non-stop stream, free of shunting.

A combination of trains and trams is naturally excellent at moving crowds but I get the impression that Perth is still refining its train operations for Perth Stadium. There have been some glitches.
Perpetually on a T3 to "I. P. Pavlova, přestup na Metro. Příští zastávka, Náměsti Míru"
User avatar
tonyp
 
Posts: 6907
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:31 am
Location: Shoalhaven
Has thanked: 579 times
Been thanked: 766 times

Re: Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast

Postby Frosty » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:21 am

The only semi-efficient bus operation for special events in Sydney is City2Surf Bondi Beach to Bondi Jn shuttle. Though there are still long queues buses at least are moving thanks to Bondi Rd being basically bus only & Bondi Jn interchange is under special traffic control.It isn’t optimal considering the large numbers of buses neeeded & large number of people for crowd control.
Frosty
 
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 7:16 pm
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 86 times

Previous


  • Advertisement

Return to General Transport Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], OLYMPIAN and 4 guests