Rare Beasts: Guy underfloors in Australia
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Rare Beasts: Guy underfloors in Australia
Last edited by Herbert on Sat May 05, 2012 11:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Guy_Arab
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Guy Arab underfloor motor buses
Well you have started the ball running There was only two service buses one as shown in Victoria and one in Perth BUT WAIT there is more W.A.G.R road service had Guy coaches, but Panther 998 has shown these some time ago I think on this forum. but perhaps he might like to show these again I have one photo some where
LONG LIVE THE OLD GUY ARAB BUSES
LONG LIVE THE OLD GUY ARAB BUSES
The WAGR buses were not Guy Arab under floors. They were Guy Victories with the Leyland 0680 engine, mono control gearboxes. A very advanced chassis for its time - independent front suspension and disc brakes.
Quite unlike the Gardner engined Guy Arab underfloors which were heavy and a bit of a stodge.
I scored a drive of MTT 308 (ex WAGT 135) and it was sluggish when compared with a Guy Arab III half cab.
Quite unlike the Gardner engined Guy Arab underfloors which were heavy and a bit of a stodge.
I scored a drive of MTT 308 (ex WAGT 135) and it was sluggish when compared with a Guy Arab III half cab.
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OLYMPIAN
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The Guy Victory is totally different to the Guy Victory double decker operating in South Africa and later version Leyland Victoty Mk2 in Hong Kong
the double deck version have front mount engine, water cool was radiator
on the front and the Mk2 series 2 from Leyland have the underframe of the Worldmaster with a kick up at the back to accomandate the rear axle to reduce overall height.
By the way, any of these Guy Arab UF and Victory still surviving in Australia?
the double deck version have front mount engine, water cool was radiator
on the front and the Mk2 series 2 from Leyland have the underframe of the Worldmaster with a kick up at the back to accomandate the rear axle to reduce overall height.
By the way, any of these Guy Arab UF and Victory still surviving in Australia?
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Guy_Arab
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Ex WAGR coaches
I think there is still one in Geraldton 
The only Guy Arab underfloor to be sold in WA (WA Govt Tramways 135 - then MTT 308) was dismantled by Soltoggio Brothers, well known truck wreckers.
One WAGR Guy Victory was sighted beside a house in Northampton, about 60 kilometres north of Geraldton.
The African Guy Victory chassis was a very rugged vertically engined front engined chassis with set back front axle designed for roads in outback Africa. Engines were provided by either Gardner or Leyland. Many mechanical components were derived from the Guy Big J range of lorries - a model developed following the acquisition of Guy Motors by Jaguar Cars Ltd. In 1960, Jaguar sold out to British Motor Holdings and eventually Jaguar and Guy became part of the ill fated British Leyland empire.
This chassis was later adapted to take double deck bodies and sold well in South Africa and Hong Kong. Its concept was emulated by Dennis for the Hong Kong market.
The earlier Guy Victories shared many components with the Guy Wulfrunian front engined double decker.
The photos posted by 007 Herbert are WAGR publicity shots and show two of the three high level Guy Victories that were used on the Perth to Albany and Perth to Narembeen services. They were named "Pride of the West", "Wheatlander" and "Queen of the South".
One WAGR Guy Victory was sighted beside a house in Northampton, about 60 kilometres north of Geraldton.
The African Guy Victory chassis was a very rugged vertically engined front engined chassis with set back front axle designed for roads in outback Africa. Engines were provided by either Gardner or Leyland. Many mechanical components were derived from the Guy Big J range of lorries - a model developed following the acquisition of Guy Motors by Jaguar Cars Ltd. In 1960, Jaguar sold out to British Motor Holdings and eventually Jaguar and Guy became part of the ill fated British Leyland empire.
This chassis was later adapted to take double deck bodies and sold well in South Africa and Hong Kong. Its concept was emulated by Dennis for the Hong Kong market.
The earlier Guy Victories shared many components with the Guy Wulfrunian front engined double decker.
The photos posted by 007 Herbert are WAGR publicity shots and show two of the three high level Guy Victories that were used on the Perth to Albany and Perth to Narembeen services. They were named "Pride of the West", "Wheatlander" and "Queen of the South".
Passengers must not talk to Driver
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OLYMPIAN
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Sorry for being off topic, why the Wulfrunian is called a disaster in the UK and being so unpopular?Dennis96 wrote:The only Guy Arab underfloor to be sold in WA (WA Govt Tramways 135 - then MTT 308) was dismantled by Soltoggio Brothers, well known truck wreckers.
One WAGR Guy Victory was sighted beside a house in Northampton, about 60 kilometres north of Geraldton.
The African Guy Victory chassis was a very rugged vertically engined front engined chassis with set back front axle designed for roads in outback Africa. Engines were provided by either Gardner or Leyland. Many mechanical components were derived from the Guy Big J range of lorries - a model developed following the acquisition of Guy Motors by Jaguar Cars Ltd. In 1960, Jaguar sold out to British Motor Holdings and eventually Jaguar and Guy became part of the ill fated British Leyland empire.
This chassis was later adapted to take double deck bodies and sold well in South Africa and Hong Kong. Its concept was emulated by Dennis for the Hong Kong market.
The earlier Guy Victories shared many components with the Guy Wulfrunian front engined double decker.
The photos posted by 007 Herbert are WAGR publicity shots and show two of the three high level Guy Victories that were used on the Perth to Albany and Perth to Narembeen services. They were named "Pride of the West", "Wheatlander" and "Queen of the South".
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GUY WULFRUNIAN
Far too advanced for its time. Too many technical innovations that needed proving which Guy Motors lacked the resources and time to achieve.
Air suspension all round, independent front suspension, four wheel disc brakes.
Briefly, the front suspension couldn't cope with the weight of a forward mounted engine combined with set back front wheels. Problems with cooling the disc brakes and so the list goes on.
The Guy Wulfrunian was first exhibited at the 1958 Commercial Motor Show. British bus operators were a conservative lot in general and it took quite some time before rear engined chassis shuch as the Leyland Atlantean and Daimler Fleetline were accepted. What hope did Guy have of securing large orders for an unproven chassis of radical design?
Air suspension all round, independent front suspension, four wheel disc brakes.
Briefly, the front suspension couldn't cope with the weight of a forward mounted engine combined with set back front wheels. Problems with cooling the disc brakes and so the list goes on.
The Guy Wulfrunian was first exhibited at the 1958 Commercial Motor Show. British bus operators were a conservative lot in general and it took quite some time before rear engined chassis shuch as the Leyland Atlantean and Daimler Fleetline were accepted. What hope did Guy have of securing large orders for an unproven chassis of radical design?
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Swift
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I like that unusual rear hub.It looks like the old AEC flange hub used up till the AEC Regal IV.007herbert wrote:
From Chris Sellick's collection:
<img src="http://perthbus.info/GUY_VICTORY/WAGRRS-009.JPG" WIDTH=800>
NSW, the state that embraces mediocrity.
More WAGR Guy Victories
Dennis96 photo taken at East Perth in November 1971:
<img src="http://perthbus.info/GUY_VICTORY/WAGRRS-011.JPG">
Interesting to note that each of them is missing a headlight!
Dennis96 photo taken at East Perth in November 1971:
<img src="http://perthbus.info/GUY_VICTORY/WAGRRS-011.JPG">
Interesting to note that each of them is missing a headlight!
Well, this thread avoids the need to post a question about the population of Guy Arab UF and Guy Victory UF models in Australia – the answers are here.
The Victory UF was the successor to the Arab UF and was offered in two basic forms, one with air suspension, independent front suspension and front disc brakes, and the other being more conventional, with steel suspension and drum brakes. Gardner, Meadows and Leyland engines were offered, along with semi-automatic, synchromesh and constant mesh transmissions. (Unlike the Wulfrunian, I don’t think that an air-assisted synchromesh change was offered, but I could be wrong.) Both underslung worm and spiral bevel final drives were used. To a large extent, the Victory was configured with the Benelux and African markets in mind, which may be part of the reason for its lack of success downunder.
Then anticipating an emerging African need, Guy quickly developed a front vertical engined version of the steel suspension Victory UF, as the Victory Trambus, with similar engines and transmissions and an overhead worm final drive. It was the first British builder to do so. Leyland followed with a vertical-engined version of the Worldmaster, but this remained a special, not a regular production model. AEC did the same with the Regal VI, the front vertical-engined version being the Kudu, built only in South Africa. The Victory Trambus was superseded by the Victory J, which as previously noted, was based upon “Big J” truck components, and which became the British Leyland standard offering in its category.
During the 1960s, the “trambus” layout became common at the lighter end of the model spectrum, with, in approximate release order, the Albion Viking VK41L, Bedford VAL, Ford Thames 36, Bedford VAM and Ford R, all based upon common truck components.
Guy’s semi-automatic transmission, introduced in 1958, was of the electrically-controlled direct air-operated form, like the AEC Monocontrol. It replaced the preselector option, unlike Daimler, who kept the preselector option, alongside the Daimatic, through the 1960s for some models.
Upthread it is established that the WAGR Victory fleet had semi-automatic transmissions. But what about the Guy Arab UF pair? I would guess air-operated preselective. Guy built both mechanical and pneumatic versions, the pneumatic type being a standard fitting in air-braked chassis, which these most likely were.
Cheers.
The Victory UF was the successor to the Arab UF and was offered in two basic forms, one with air suspension, independent front suspension and front disc brakes, and the other being more conventional, with steel suspension and drum brakes. Gardner, Meadows and Leyland engines were offered, along with semi-automatic, synchromesh and constant mesh transmissions. (Unlike the Wulfrunian, I don’t think that an air-assisted synchromesh change was offered, but I could be wrong.) Both underslung worm and spiral bevel final drives were used. To a large extent, the Victory was configured with the Benelux and African markets in mind, which may be part of the reason for its lack of success downunder.
Then anticipating an emerging African need, Guy quickly developed a front vertical engined version of the steel suspension Victory UF, as the Victory Trambus, with similar engines and transmissions and an overhead worm final drive. It was the first British builder to do so. Leyland followed with a vertical-engined version of the Worldmaster, but this remained a special, not a regular production model. AEC did the same with the Regal VI, the front vertical-engined version being the Kudu, built only in South Africa. The Victory Trambus was superseded by the Victory J, which as previously noted, was based upon “Big J” truck components, and which became the British Leyland standard offering in its category.
During the 1960s, the “trambus” layout became common at the lighter end of the model spectrum, with, in approximate release order, the Albion Viking VK41L, Bedford VAL, Ford Thames 36, Bedford VAM and Ford R, all based upon common truck components.
Guy’s semi-automatic transmission, introduced in 1958, was of the electrically-controlled direct air-operated form, like the AEC Monocontrol. It replaced the preselector option, unlike Daimler, who kept the preselector option, alongside the Daimatic, through the 1960s for some models.
Upthread it is established that the WAGR Victory fleet had semi-automatic transmissions. But what about the Guy Arab UF pair? I would guess air-operated preselective. Guy built both mechanical and pneumatic versions, the pneumatic type being a standard fitting in air-braked chassis, which these most likely were.
Cheers.
It is just a coincidence that this thread has come up again today? Perth's only Guy underfloor, 308 (ex-WA Govt Tramways 135), was another rare beast that got scrapped! Unfortunately at the time it was well beyond the means of the Perth bus preservation movement to rescue this bus. After further use with Swanleigh Hostel (Middle Swan) after its MTT days, it sat at Soltoggio Bros (Kardinya) (wreckers) with an exorbitant price tag. There was no way anyone was willing to pay their price. Along with other sacred relics of the Perth bus scene, 308 was bulldozed into a pit to make way for housing development.
Now, back to your question: like its ex-WAGT half-cab Guy Arab cousins, 308 had a 4sp pneumatically-actuated pre-select gearbox. The lever had the appearance of a conventional crash-box gear lever.
I don't know about the Mildura one.
Now, back to your question: like its ex-WAGT half-cab Guy Arab cousins, 308 had a 4sp pneumatically-actuated pre-select gearbox. The lever had the appearance of a conventional crash-box gear lever.
I don't know about the Mildura one.
Thanks, Herbert.
Purely coincidence. For some time, I have been meaning to post a question about Guy underfloors; I just happened to get to it today.
As far as I know, Guy used a conventional gear lever for all of its preselector buses except the Johannesburg six-wheelers, which had quadrant type selectors. I think the choice had something to do with avoiding patent infringements.
Cheers.
Purely coincidence. For some time, I have been meaning to post a question about Guy underfloors; I just happened to get to it today.
As far as I know, Guy used a conventional gear lever for all of its preselector buses except the Johannesburg six-wheelers, which had quadrant type selectors. I think the choice had something to do with avoiding patent infringements.
Cheers.
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Windy
Singapore had a fleet of single deck Guy Victory Mk2s as well. They were powered by a selection of Leyland O.680 and O.680 Power+ motors. Practically a front engined Leopard, with the Wilson/SCG pnuemocylic gearbox with electric gearchange. Due to Guy coming under the British Leyland group, these Victories (and the various Albion Vikings - VK41, EVK41L, VK55CUL, VK55CL, and of various wheelbases) were badged as leylands with the propellor logo.
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Windy
Methinks the best things that came out of Scotland were the B55 Ailsas. And the OlympiansHerbert wrote:It must be the haggis that flows through the veins that makes me cringe at that! Aye, it's the Scottish flag, laddee!Windy wrote:leylands with the propellor logo.
And the path to the top of Ben Nevis 
