• Advertisement

Rare Beasts: Guy underfloors in Australia

This section contains posts made before the split into state-based forums for photos etc. New posts should be made to the appropriate state forum or the "General/Miscellaneous/Various" forum.
Forum rules
  • A topic icon must be used with the thread title of all threads.
  • No more than 10 photos per post with a maximum of 50 in any one page in a thread.
  • Maximum photo width 1000 pixels.
  • For full photo rules and how to attach photos see viewtopic.php?f=10&t=28459
  • Thank you :)

Rare Beasts: Guy underfloors in Australia

Postby Herbert » Tue May 31, 2005 10:24 pm

Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Herbert on Sat May 05, 2012 11:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Postby Dennis96 » Tue May 31, 2005 11:24 pm

Brilliant shot Herbert. How many Guy Arab underfloor chassis were sold in Australia?
Passengers must not talk to Driver
User avatar
Dennis96
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:06 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 271 times

Postby Herbert » Tue May 31, 2005 11:36 pm

I was hoping you'd be able to tell me that!!
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Postby Dennis96 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:01 am

I'm sure Panther 998 has the gen. It would be out of the Bar Code Man's field of expertise.
Passengers must not talk to Driver
User avatar
Dennis96
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:06 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 271 times

Guy Arab underfloor motor buses

Postby Guy_Arab » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:29 am

Well you have started the ball running There was only two service buses one as shown in Victoria and one in Perth BUT WAIT there is more W.A.G.R road service had Guy coaches, but Panther 998 has shown these some time ago I think on this forum. but perhaps he might like to show these again I have one photo some where
LONG LIVE THE OLD GUY ARAB BUSES
User avatar
Guy_Arab
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:11 pm
Location: Perth W.A.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 32 times
Favourite Vehicle: M.A.N Bus & Guy Arab

Postby Dennis96 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:52 pm

The WAGR buses were not Guy Arab under floors. They were Guy Victories with the Leyland 0680 engine, mono control gearboxes. A very advanced chassis for its time - independent front suspension and disc brakes.

Quite unlike the Gardner engined Guy Arab underfloors which were heavy and a bit of a stodge.

I scored a drive of MTT 308 (ex WAGT 135) and it was sluggish when compared with a Guy Arab III half cab.
Passengers must not talk to Driver
User avatar
Dennis96
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:06 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 271 times

Postby Herbert » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:01 pm

A couple of pictures of WAGR Road Services Guy Victories.

From Guy_Arab's collection:
Image

From Chris Sellick's collection:
Image
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Postby OLYMPIAN » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:50 pm

The Guy Victory is totally different to the Guy Victory double decker operating in South Africa and later version Leyland Victoty Mk2 in Hong Kong

the double deck version have front mount engine, water cool was radiator
on the front and the Mk2 series 2 from Leyland have the underframe of the Worldmaster with a kick up at the back to accomandate the rear axle to reduce overall height.

By the way, any of these Guy Arab UF and Victory still surviving in Australia?
Detroit 6VT92/ZF 4HP500...the best bendi bus power train!
User avatar
OLYMPIAN
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:32 pm
Location: Enviro 500
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 51 times
Favourite Vehicle: Leyland Victory Mk2, Olympian

Ex WAGR coaches

Postby Guy_Arab » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:54 pm

I think there is still one in Geraldton :lol:
User avatar
Guy_Arab
 
Posts: 653
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:11 pm
Location: Perth W.A.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 32 times
Favourite Vehicle: M.A.N Bus & Guy Arab

Postby Dennis96 » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:02 pm

The only Guy Arab underfloor to be sold in WA (WA Govt Tramways 135 - then MTT 308) was dismantled by Soltoggio Brothers, well known truck wreckers.

One WAGR Guy Victory was sighted beside a house in Northampton, about 60 kilometres north of Geraldton.

The African Guy Victory chassis was a very rugged vertically engined front engined chassis with set back front axle designed for roads in outback Africa. Engines were provided by either Gardner or Leyland. Many mechanical components were derived from the Guy Big J range of lorries - a model developed following the acquisition of Guy Motors by Jaguar Cars Ltd. In 1960, Jaguar sold out to British Motor Holdings and eventually Jaguar and Guy became part of the ill fated British Leyland empire.

This chassis was later adapted to take double deck bodies and sold well in South Africa and Hong Kong. Its concept was emulated by Dennis for the Hong Kong market.

The earlier Guy Victories shared many components with the Guy Wulfrunian front engined double decker.

The photos posted by 007 Herbert are WAGR publicity shots and show two of the three high level Guy Victories that were used on the Perth to Albany and Perth to Narembeen services. They were named "Pride of the West", "Wheatlander" and "Queen of the South".
Passengers must not talk to Driver
User avatar
Dennis96
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:06 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 271 times

Postby OLYMPIAN » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:02 pm

Dennis96 wrote:The only Guy Arab underfloor to be sold in WA (WA Govt Tramways 135 - then MTT 308) was dismantled by Soltoggio Brothers, well known truck wreckers.

One WAGR Guy Victory was sighted beside a house in Northampton, about 60 kilometres north of Geraldton.

The African Guy Victory chassis was a very rugged vertically engined front engined chassis with set back front axle designed for roads in outback Africa. Engines were provided by either Gardner or Leyland. Many mechanical components were derived from the Guy Big J range of lorries - a model developed following the acquisition of Guy Motors by Jaguar Cars Ltd. In 1960, Jaguar sold out to British Motor Holdings and eventually Jaguar and Guy became part of the ill fated British Leyland empire.

This chassis was later adapted to take double deck bodies and sold well in South Africa and Hong Kong. Its concept was emulated by Dennis for the Hong Kong market.

The earlier Guy Victories shared many components with the Guy Wulfrunian front engined double decker.

The photos posted by 007 Herbert are WAGR publicity shots and show two of the three high level Guy Victories that were used on the Perth to Albany and Perth to Narembeen services. They were named "Pride of the West", "Wheatlander" and "Queen of the South".


Sorry for being off topic, why the Wulfrunian is called a disaster in the UK and being so unpopular?
Detroit 6VT92/ZF 4HP500...the best bendi bus power train!
User avatar
OLYMPIAN
 
Posts: 3182
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:32 pm
Location: Enviro 500
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 51 times
Favourite Vehicle: Leyland Victory Mk2, Olympian

GUY WULFRUNIAN

Postby Dennis96 » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:50 am

Far too advanced for its time. Too many technical innovations that needed proving which Guy Motors lacked the resources and time to achieve.

Air suspension all round, independent front suspension, four wheel disc brakes.

Briefly, the front suspension couldn't cope with the weight of a forward mounted engine combined with set back front wheels. Problems with cooling the disc brakes and so the list goes on.

The Guy Wulfrunian was first exhibited at the 1958 Commercial Motor Show. British bus operators were a conservative lot in general and it took quite some time before rear engined chassis shuch as the Leyland Atlantean and Daimler Fleetline were accepted. What hope did Guy have of securing large orders for an unproven chassis of radical design?
Passengers must not talk to Driver
User avatar
Dennis96
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:06 pm
Location: Perth
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 271 times

Postby Swift » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:10 am

007herbert wrote:
From Chris Sellick's collection:
<img src="http://perthbus.info/GUY_VICTORY/WAGRRS-009.JPG" WIDTH=800>

I like that unusual rear hub.It looks like the old AEC flange hub used up till the AEC Regal IV.
The super slow wonderful Renk Doromat. A tough old grandfather's axe you can depend on for supreme passenger amenity, unlike that two letter lurch factory.
User avatar
Swift
 
Posts: 8694
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:23 pm
Location: Ettalong- the world capital of 0405s.
Has thanked: 449 times
Been thanked: 321 times
Favourite Vehicle: Porshe 911 Carerra

Postby Herbert » Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:33 am

More WAGR Guy Victories

Dennis96 photo taken at East Perth in November 1971:

<img src="http://perthbus.info/GUY_VICTORY/WAGRRS-011.JPG">

Interesting to note that each of them is missing a headlight!
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Postby RK215 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 5:45 pm

Well, this thread avoids the need to post a question about the population of Guy Arab UF and Guy Victory UF models in Australia – the answers are here.

The Victory UF was the successor to the Arab UF and was offered in two basic forms, one with air suspension, independent front suspension and front disc brakes, and the other being more conventional, with steel suspension and drum brakes. Gardner, Meadows and Leyland engines were offered, along with semi-automatic, synchromesh and constant mesh transmissions. (Unlike the Wulfrunian, I don’t think that an air-assisted synchromesh change was offered, but I could be wrong.) Both underslung worm and spiral bevel final drives were used. To a large extent, the Victory was configured with the Benelux and African markets in mind, which may be part of the reason for its lack of success downunder.

Then anticipating an emerging African need, Guy quickly developed a front vertical engined version of the steel suspension Victory UF, as the Victory Trambus, with similar engines and transmissions and an overhead worm final drive. It was the first British builder to do so. Leyland followed with a vertical-engined version of the Worldmaster, but this remained a special, not a regular production model. AEC did the same with the Regal VI, the front vertical-engined version being the Kudu, built only in South Africa. The Victory Trambus was superseded by the Victory J, which as previously noted, was based upon “Big J” truck components, and which became the British Leyland standard offering in its category.

During the 1960s, the “trambus” layout became common at the lighter end of the model spectrum, with, in approximate release order, the Albion Viking VK41L, Bedford VAL, Ford Thames 36, Bedford VAM and Ford R, all based upon common truck components.

Guy’s semi-automatic transmission, introduced in 1958, was of the electrically-controlled direct air-operated form, like the AEC Monocontrol. It replaced the preselector option, unlike Daimler, who kept the preselector option, alongside the Daimatic, through the 1960s for some models.

Upthread it is established that the WAGR Victory fleet had semi-automatic transmissions. But what about the Guy Arab UF pair? I would guess air-operated preselective. Guy built both mechanical and pneumatic versions, the pneumatic type being a standard fitting in air-braked chassis, which these most likely were.

Cheers.
RK215
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:01 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Postby Herbert » Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:06 pm

It is just a coincidence that this thread has come up again today? Perth's only Guy underfloor, 308 (ex-WA Govt Tramways 135), was another rare beast that got scrapped! Unfortunately at the time it was well beyond the means of the Perth bus preservation movement to rescue this bus. After further use with Swanleigh Hostel (Middle Swan) after its MTT days, it sat at Soltoggio Bros (Kardinya) (wreckers) with an exorbitant price tag. There was no way anyone was willing to pay their price. Along with other sacred relics of the Perth bus scene, 308 was bulldozed into a pit to make way for housing development.

Now, back to your question: like its ex-WAGT half-cab Guy Arab cousins, 308 had a 4sp pneumatically-actuated pre-select gearbox. The lever had the appearance of a conventional crash-box gear lever.

I don't know about the Mildura one.
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Postby RK215 » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:07 pm

Thanks, Herbert.

Purely coincidence. For some time, I have been meaning to post a question about Guy underfloors; I just happened to get to it today.

As far as I know, Guy used a conventional gear lever for all of its preselector buses except the Johannesburg six-wheelers, which had quadrant type selectors. I think the choice had something to do with avoiding patent infringements.

Cheers.
RK215
 
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:01 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Postby Herbert » Sun Jul 09, 2006 7:42 pm

The Perth Guy half-cabs had a home-made quadrant, made in their WAGT days to distinguish them from manually-geared buses.

There were two other Guy Arabs (half-cabs) from Coogee-Spearwood Bus Co. These were crash box.
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Postby hij » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:43 pm

Any photos of any of these?
User avatar
hij
 
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:23 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 33 times

Postby Herbert » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:00 am

Coogee-Spearwood Bus Co 6:

Image
Ian Atkins photo

This became MTT 474 and was withdrawn in 1967. Its sister No 5 became MTT 473 & was scrapped in 1964.
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Postby hij » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:17 am

Bonus! I should've been clearer though...I mean't the inside (around the stick/wheel) :wink:

Gorgeous pic btw
User avatar
hij
 
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:23 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 33 times

Postby Windy » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:01 pm

Singapore had a fleet of single deck Guy Victory Mk2s as well. They were powered by a selection of Leyland O.680 and O.680 Power+ motors. Practically a front engined Leopard, with the Wilson/SCG pnuemocylic gearbox with electric gearchange. Due to Guy coming under the British Leyland group, these Victories (and the various Albion Vikings - VK41, EVK41L, VK55CUL, VK55CL, and of various wheelbases) were badged as leylands with the propellor logo.
Windy
 

Postby Herbert » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:52 pm

Windy wrote:leylands with the propellor logo.

It must be the haggis that flows through the veins that makes me cringe at that! Aye, it's the Scottish flag, laddee!
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Postby Windy » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:42 pm

Herbert wrote:
Windy wrote:leylands with the propellor logo.

It must be the haggis that flows through the veins that makes me cringe at that! Aye, it's the Scottish flag, laddee!


Methinks the best things that came out of Scotland were the B55 Ailsas. And the Olympians :) And the path to the top of Ben Nevis :)
Windy
 

Postby Herbert » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:54 pm

hij wrote:Bonus! I should've been clearer though...I mean't the inside (around the stick/wheel) :wink:


WAGT's home-made gear gate:
Image
Get the gen, see the shots: www.perthbus.info
User avatar
Herbert
 
Posts: 4174
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:04 pm
Location: The Herbertery
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Favourite Vehicle: rather partial to B12BLEAs!

Next


  • Advertisement

Return to Australian Photos, Videos, Sound Clips etc - ARCHIVE

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests