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Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:19 pm

I think the Foden original is much more elegant than the Albion facsimilies.You can see that the real thing has a much greater rake angle on the top deck to take in the rad - this would be a major factor in trying to adapt a standard Comeng body on to a Foden chassis.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Windy » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:38 pm

GM, thanks for those shots, it is interesting that Hills went to such great lengths to refronting those ex DGT deckers.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:19 pm

David Wilson - [i]GM -did you ever take any of the old junk laying around Leichhardt Workshops yard?[/i], No I operated enough junk of my own.
I did take a lot of junk from Clyde Engineering when it closed in 1972.
System Improver, I think the Leyland for Eric Newham of Lithgow was earlier. ABH 694 10.10.1951.
MBA demontrated their new body style at the Royal Easter Show 28.03.1953. GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:22 pm

System Improver Eric Newhams Leyland I forgot to post. GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:41 pm

GM - was Newhams livery maroon and cream?
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:51 pm

Dave I am not quite sure it was only 57 years ago, but I think you are right. (Also I am Colour Blind). GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:17 pm

Placing the Destination low down was not a good idea as you could not see it if a car was in front as it came into a stop.
I think they change this later. CCMC also tried this location for the Desto. GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Foden-nut » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:23 pm

GM - I meant no offence by my little suggestion - "A senior moment, perhaps?" - I trust that none was taken? As one who almost rivals you for days passed by, I know all about senior moments!

I'm glad that I raised the point about the Royal Tiger, though, as it has spawned some further comment in this interesting thread - and many thanks to Route660 for starting it going. If he does carry out his threat to withdraw from the ATDB I, for one, shall miss him.

Obviously I am biased towards liking the Foden front and, therefore, have to agree with Dave Wilson that it looks a lot better than the Albion facsimile fronts applied by Hill's - though Hill's are to be congratulated on trying to modernise the looks of their older buses.

Windy, the Foden front was designed with a removable central portion, easily seen on GM's photo of Charlie Price's Foden 'decker, m06069. Once the panel had been removed, a few bolts could be released and the whole engine assembly moved forward on a trolley or fork truck. Somewhere I have some official Foden literature showing how this could be achieved. I'll look it out and post something.

Cheers, Foden-nut
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby User xxx » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:36 pm

Looking at newhams LEYLAND ROYAL TIGER if that what it is looking at the roof and the two number box it seems logical to locate the route deso box just below the windscreen and if you standing on the kerb there is plenty of vision to see the deso if there is a tin lizzie in front route660.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby On Air » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:20 pm

Dave Wilson wrote:I think the Foden original is much more elegant than the Albion facsimilies.You can see that the real thing has a much greater rake angle on the top deck to take in the rad - this would be a major factor in trying to adapt a standard Comeng body on to a Foden chassis.


I wonder how 50 Fodens would have stacked up against Albions on the Northern Beaches routes? I'm led to believe that the 6LW engine, cog-swapped through a crash box was not an easy duo to handle.

But you're spot on about the body styling. There is a grand, almost Duchess like elegance in the appearance of the Foden. My dad drove a Foden truck for a while in the late sixties and he used to say it was a pig of thing to drive!

To Foden-nut, you may be pleased to know that there is still a Foden tipper I see occasionally here in Sydney. The body looks in fair condition, but god knows what engine it would be running.
Last edited by On Air on Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Swift » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:38 pm

On Air wrote:
To Foden-nut, you may be pleased to know that there is still a Foden tipper I see occasionally here in Sydney. The body looks in fair condition, but god knows what engine it would be running.

Are you talking about that peach coloured twin steer I saw floating about in Sydney's North side in the early 2000s?
I managed to listen to it going a couple of times and it doesn't sound like any modern truck.I'd say (at least when I last witnessed it in the early 2000s)it still had a Gardner or maybe a Meadows?It was very sluggish by today's standards.
The owner was obviously attached to it!

On a side note ,you may be interested in my sighting of a Qld based Leyland Removal truck I saw in the Central Coast recently.I believe this model came out in the late 1970s and it sounded like it had the Leyland TL12 motor which is essentially a turbocharged AEC AH 760 motor.
When I pulled up near it at traffic lights,it sounded just like a 760 swift bus with turbo whistle added!
Renk Doromat. Make that engine work! :)
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Fleabag » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 am

What a great looking bus 1010 was.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Windy » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:51 am

Foden-nut wrote:Windy, the Foden front was designed with a removable central portion, easily seen on GM's photo of Charlie Price's Foden 'decker, m06069. Once the panel had been removed, a few bolts could be released and the whole engine assembly moved forward on a trolley or fork truck. Somewhere I have some official Foden literature showing how this could be achieved. I'll look it out and post something.

Cheers, Foden-nut


Ahhhh, that makes alot more sense now. I didn't notice that little detail in GM's photo, but with another more detailed look, I see what you mean. So it was indeed form with function in mind! Thanks for that info.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:57 am

Foden-nut, you hit the nail on the head, no offence taken. It looked like a Foden at a quick glance. Should have checked.
But it certainly sparked some comment.
I think Arthur Gillot, ex St Ives Bus Service, restored an eight wheel Foden which they had used in their gravel business.
I am led to believe it went to a transport museum in Alice Springs. GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby On Air » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:54 am

Swift 584 wrote:Are you talking about that peach coloured twin steer I saw floating about in Sydney's North side in the early 2000s?
I managed to listen to it going a couple of times and it doesn't sound like any modern truck.I'd say (at least when I last witnessed it in the early 2000s)it still had a Gardner or maybe a Meadows?It was very sluggish by today's standards.
The owner was obviously attached to it!


Yeah, that's the one. I pulled up next to him one day and he reckoned he'd buy a new truck when they made a better one! I suppose it's the same as the bloke who never washes his car. When asked why he replies, "when it gets dirty I'll wash it"!

The truth is that any of those old dinosaurs from that era can only have limited use as the anti pollution laws will get them all off the road soon. There's another old truck I see around the traps, a Commer, also a tipper with "Golden Oldie" written on the front beneath the windscreen. Also an old Diamond T Reo tipper is easy to spot by the rooster tail of black smoke left when it's gassed-up! With the hard life that any commercial vehicle is subject to it's amazing that any truck of that vintage would survive thus far.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Swift » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:21 pm

Foden driver would have to be an eccentric character.There is no practical reason to run such an ancient truck these days.

Once the RTA say no more he will see the light in something like an International ACCO or similar I'm sure.
He won't look back.

Let me guess,that Commer is the royal blue flat bed with the lazy axle?I think it is V8 powered and is in the same fair looking condition as the Foden.Just enough to get on the road...by a thread!

Don't forget the Retriever tow truck Commer that ,at least untile recently,was being used for getting STA buses out of trouble.That truck ,though,has probably been overhauled with an updated powerplant and is excellently presented.

I remember that truck from the early 1980s,then never saw it again untile it resurfaced in the late 1990s/early 2000s!
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby leopard1543 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:38 pm

Fleabag wrote:What a great looking bus 1010 was.


I agree and I also think the AEC Q was a really modern looking bus for it year. It reminds me of the Atlantean in a way. Certainly way ahead of its time for a 1930's built bus :!:
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby On Air » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:08 pm

leopard1543 wrote:I agree and I also think the AEC Q was a really modern looking bus for it year. It reminds me of the Atlantean in a way. Certainly way ahead of its time for a 1930's built bus :!:


I agree wholeheartedly with 1010 being ahead of its time, but the Atlantean? If you look back to when the Atlantean was introduced, the chassis we acquired were in fact a "special" and retrograde order just for the UTA who demanded a bus that would suit their short pits. Every other country that was running Atlanteans got a far better bus than we did here-and kept on running them right up until the late nineties. Ours didn't even have air suspension and had to be modified in the build to suit our axle loading regulations at the time.

Still, they were a nice bus to ride in and I was sad to see them go in 1986.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:19 pm

The UTA ruined the Atlanteans in the same way that the Railways ruined the Budd Cars. GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:06 pm

Interesting thing is that the three Qs and 1010 were all preselectors. 1010 was also quite underpowered as it was fitted with the smaller 7.7 litre AEC diesel. Its strange that the DRTT didn't attempt repower it with an 8.8 litre diesel at some stage.Typical of the stingy Department.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:52 am

I was under the impression that the TD1's 1001-1009, 1010, the Q's were originally fitted with petrol engines.
Oil or CI engines did not come into use until much later. GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:44 am

Pretty well everything that was to be retained by the DRTT was dieselised. The TD-1s and one or two other oddities which, by all accounts would all have been disposed of in 1940-41, were saved by the War. I suspect the Dennis Lance (191), the Dennis Lancet 1 sd (223), the Leyland Cub (295), the Albion CX13 'snowploughs' (312 318 322 326) and Albion Victor (353) and all the surviving Whites (37 59 298 341 ) would have gone the way of the the Thornycroft. Maybe even the Qs and 1010 would have been disposed of early. Makes you wonder if the supposed order for Leyland Td-7s wasn't intended to rid the Department of all the oddities. Rovers must have been very dissappointed by the retention of the balance of the TD-1s. No wonder Rovers acquired the wrecked body of AEC 189 in 1941 to rebody the chassis of former TD-1 1006!

I think the Dennis Lance (191) was one of the last to be dieselised - in 1943 or so. All the open staircase TD-1s kept their petrols. 1009 was dieselised.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby system improver » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:27 pm

GM wrote:System Improver Eric Newhams Leyland I forgot to post. GM


This looks like quite a new bus, but seems to have bit of damage along the skirt. Was it back at MBA for repairs?
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby On Air » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:39 pm

GM wrote:The UTA ruined the Atlanteans in the same way that the Railways ruined the Budd Cars. GM


Not to mention the 1200 class. They were a victim, like the 47 class of constant interference by the railway department during the build development. In terms of ride quality and fit out the 1200s were superlative and in my opinion far better than the Budds. The 1200s suffered from some appalling electrical problems. I recall one nightmare trip when I boarded the South Coast Daylight at Central. We were sitting there waiting to go, I had purloined a nice seat in a 1200, about four times the engines were shut down and restarted. Eventually some platform employee came and ordered the whole train out onto the platform while the 1200 was removed from the center of the set to the rear. It turned out that the 1200 would only operate towards the dead end whilst marshalled between other cars. This was an all too common occurrence and was a major cause for delays and the early withdrawal of these ill-starred rail cars.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby AEC Decker » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:30 pm

Dave Wilson wrote:Interesting thing is that the three Qs and 1010 were all preselectors. 1010 was also quite underpowered as it was fitted with the smaller 7.7 litre AEC diesel. Its strange that the DRTT didn't attempt repower it with an 8.8 litre diesel at some stage.Typical of the stingy Department.

Or even a 9.6 litre diesel. :D
If the DRT & T had preselector buses in 1934, why did they go back to crash boxes and syncos, and then reintroduce preselectors in 1948 with AEC decker 1792 ?. :?
AND from the modern full front cab design of 1010 back to the ½ cab deckers ?. :?
What was 1010s fate ? and would it be possible to build a replica of this ahead of its' time bus ?.
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