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Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby leopard1543 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:35 pm

ROUTE660 wrote:I thought were 1329 is might of been around ROZELLE near the or at the tram depot. Wasn`t there cliffs around there somewhere? "route660".


m/o.1329 was also a very temporary plate for this Q (which was DRT&T fleet #165). It was issued it in October, 1934 when new and then re-registered m/o.1365 in late 1934 and then became m/o.1165 in February, 1940 until its withdrawal from Government service in August, 1948.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby User xxx » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:37 pm

Er GM is that the body off the thornycroft that 1320 is wearing or did drt & t many bus like this with this type of body as I heard the thornycroft body was transfered to another chassis route660.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby boronia » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:47 am

ROUTE660 wrote:I thought were 1329 is might of been around ROZELLE near the or at the tram depot wasn`t there cliffs around there somewhere route660.

There were some cliffs around Rozelle, but not many wharfs, as can be seen in the left of the picture.

While the cliff face does bear some resemblance to that along Hickson Rd, various other elements in the picture could only be Woolloomooloo. Cowper Wharf Rd is considerably different now to what is was back in those days, which can make comparisons difficult.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:17 am

Bats - the photo is at Woolloomooloo Depot.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby leopard1543 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:40 am

ROUTE660 wrote:"GM". Is that the body off the Thornycroft that 1320 is wearing or did the DRT&T have many buses like this with this type of body. I've heard that the Thornycroft body was transferred to another chassis ["route660"].


No, m/o.1320 (DRT&T fleet #166 a 1934 Leyland TD3c) became m/o.1366 in around July, 1935 and was re-registered m/o.1166 in Feb, 1940.

The body that was on the Thornycroft was transferred to a 1930 Leyland TD1 chassis which was acquired from the Dept. of Railways in Aug, 1940 and became DRT&T fleet # 698 (m/o.1698) in Dec, 1941. The bus started out life as m/o.660 with Bardsley of Cronulla prior to that. I believe that 1698 was mainly used on driver training duties.
After Government service 1698 was resold in Sept, 1947 for further use as a bus being registered MO3383 with Henson of Corimal (as depicted below) being finally withdrawn in May, 1953 and subsequently scrapped in November of the same year.

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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:57 pm

Some Fodens as requested.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby User xxx » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:08 pm

Could someone if it is true but I was told there was a wollongong foden decker and a half cab tiger decker sitting up in the hills at the back of wollongong quite a few years back and I think I told by someone at dions when I went there to look that leyland decker and all the old buses that dions had sitting around and up beside the shed at the depot route660.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby leopard1543 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:02 pm

ROUTE660 wrote:Could someone if it is true but I was told there was a wollongong foden decker and a half cab tiger decker sitting up in the hills at the back of wollongong quite a few years back and I think I told by someone at dions when I went there to look that leyland decker and all the old buses that dions had sitting around and up beside the shed at the depot route660.


The Foden is still (up in the hills) at Kembla Grange today along with Rutty's m/o.6132 (xRutty MO3202) (xDGT 1194) & a Hills single decker which I believe was re-bodied from a former DRT&T Leyland DD (x1175). The last visit I made there was in August, 1993 and the single decker had completely collapsed to ground level and the 2 deckers won't looking much better.

Your photo "GM" must of been taken quite early (1968-9) as all the vehicles (even back in 1993) were totally covered in heavy undergrowth
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:49 pm

I knew an old driver once called Charles Dempsey that used to drive at Rovers in the late 40s - he was driving a Q one day and ran of the road at Weston and landed in a bog.The bus was there several days before Rovers could retieve it. Dempsey was also telling me that he was driving a TD-1 and the old wooden steering wheel broke up in his hand whilst executing a sharp left hand turn in Cessnock township.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby User xxx » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:59 pm

Would you know it that my last name is dempsey plus I knew a ex rover driver rod mc caskill now deceased he said he one day back in 78 that he known of centre entrance leyland decker number 15 that rovers had route660.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby On Air » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:18 pm

Looking at the shot of the Foden sandwiched between the two Albions it looks like the Foden has a narrower axle width than the other two, but I'm sure this is an illusion caused by the full width front on the Foden.

What chassis model were the Fodens and did the DGT ever consider running them?

Thanks very much for posting them, GM.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby User xxx » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:05 am

Has anybody made attempt at rescuering the ex hills FODEN from the hills or is the bus to far gone to do anything with cause a foden decker go nicely at tempe as there is not to many in the world restored only in england the foden deckers had gardner motor in them didn`t they I am not sure what type of gearbox I`d certainly like to see the remains of this one brought back to life cause it be the only foden decker in australia route660.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:02 am

On Air wrote:What chassis model were the Fodens and did the DGT ever consider running them?


I think Foden did submit a tender to the DRTT for the supply of a certain number of chasses, but probably couldn't deliver the quantities required. The model was PVD 6. 6LW Gardner with crash box amd much more expensive than a Leyland.

I suspect the four chasses that did come to NSW were on spec.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby leopard1543 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:23 pm

ROUTE660 wrote:Has anybody made attempt at rescuing the ex Hills FODEN from the hills or is the bus to far gone to do anything with?
A Foden decker would go nicely at Tempe as there is not to many in the world restored, only in England the Foden deckers had Gardner motors in them, didn't they? I am not sure what type of gearbox.
I'd certainly like to see the remains of this one brought back to life cause it be the only Foden decker in Australia. "route660".


The Foden unfortunately in my opinion is too far gone. When I saw it back in 1993 it was more or less on the ground with no wheels, no windows, panels missing and of course no mechanicals.
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Foden Buses in Australia - Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Q

Postby Dennis96 » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:19 pm

I have black and white prints of the new Foden double decker in NSW. They were retrieved from a rubbish bin by a work colleague who was a former employee of Diesel Motors, the Foden agents in Western Australia when DM were having a clean out of material from manufacturers for whom they no longer distributed.

The Bus Preservation Society of Western Australia has a preserved ex Western Australian Government Railways Foden single decker in its collection (F44) and has a very rusty F46 as a source of spare parts. They are also looking into the acquisition of another ex WAGR Foden which is in Kalgoorlie. This one is intact, but condition of the mechanicals is unknown. So basically it seems there may be sufficient mechanical parts available from WA to rebuild the NSW Foden double decker if Tempe had the resorces. From the photos, the body styling seems similar to the many DGT exposed radiatored double deckers and perhaps there may be enough body bits around to replace what is rotted out or missing, plus it may be possible to fabricate what isn't there.

I note in earlier posts the DGT relocated the headlamps on 1010 from the normal headlamp position on exposed radiator buses - ie close to the radiator, to the extremities of the vehicle. Coming from Perth were we had many exposed radiator buses from different manufacturers, and the headlamps were in their "usual" inboard position near the radiators, it always struck me as a NSW idiosyncracy that headlamps on Government buses were so far apart on the outside. What was the reason for this? Would the headlamps on the front panels provided by Foden have been far enough apart to satisfy DGT specifications too? It also seems NSW governments of the time were averse to wheel trims on their buses. Perhaps just as well they didn't acquire Fodens, which would have lost their lovely Foden wheel covers.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby boronia » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:04 pm

The DGT seemed to have some sort of dislike of front parking/clearance lamps, and none of the d/ds were fitted with them. Presumably the headlights were mounted on the extremity of the bumper bars to provide some indication of width at night.

The Fire Brigade here also had a "thing" about parking lights on fire engines, removing most of them during the 1930s, but did not reposition the headlights.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:13 pm

I have a 1934 photo of a DRTT Albion with marker lights - but I have never seen anything else. I note that by the time preserved Albion 1187 enetered service in May 1935, no DRTT buses were being fitted with them.
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Re: Foden buses in Australia & Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Foden-nut » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:43 am

GM, many thanks for posting those lovely photos of Foden double deckers - but how come a photo of mo4034, a Leyland Royal Tiger, appeared in the middle of the selection? A senior moment, perhaps? :?

Four double deck Fodens operated in Australia, all in NSW, and all carrying Commonwealth Engineering bodies. However, I must clear up one slight misconception as to the chassis designation. The Foden PVD6 was a UK double decker, built to the (then) current UK size regulations (26’ long by 7’ 6” wide) for which Fodens chassis had a 16’ 3” wheelbase. Australia then had more relaxed regulations regarding length and width, certainly in NSW. Thus the company provided four Foden PVSC6 chassis (the standard UK single decker, with a 17’ 6” wheelbase), but fitted all round with double deck springs. This is clearly stated on the build sheets for the chassis, which I have examined at the Chester Records Office.

I said that four Foden double deckers operated in Australia. This is true, but a fifth chassis was provided, which I have been told (but never seen any proof of) was destined for the DGT in Sydney. Why it wasn’t taken up by the DGT I do not know. It might have been any or all of the various suggestions made earlier in this thread. Fodens were fighting strongly for orders at the time and would have very much welcomed a large order from overseas, particularly as post war restrictions encouraged export of chassis, which took precedence over home market units. What happened to it? It was sold to the Western Australian Government Railways Road Services and entered service as their F33. It was smaller than the subsequent batch of twenty Fodens and in 1958 it was converted to a full goods vehicle and used on the Bunbury to Flinders Bay run. The subsequent batch of WAGRRS Fodens was built to export dimensions with a 21’ wheelbase.

Turning back to the four double deckers, one was rebodied as a single decker as early as 1954. This was the bus shown in GM’s last photograph as mo253. I have no idea why such a new bus should have been rebodied as a single decker. Was it involved in an accident, or was the need for a double decker past, but a good new chassis was worth rebodying as a single decker? Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

Punchbowl Bus Company had two Foden ‘deckers and both were rebodied as single deckers in June 1959 and March 1960, respectively. Ironically, Punchbowl later bought the rebodied mo253, by now registered mo4249, to run alongside their own two rebodied single deckers.

The final Foden ‘decker was the one bought new by Charlie Price from Austinmer. His service was sold to James Hill’s Bus service in Wollongong in December 1963, if my records are right. The Foden lasted only a few years with Hill’s B S, being taken off the road at some time between December 1965 and December 1968, by which time it had arrived at Mount Kembla / Kembla Grange. It was the only Foden ‘decker to remain as such throughout its whole life.

I was fortunate enough to visit the Wollongong area in 2000 and met up with, amongst others, Noel Rutty. He offered to take me to see the old double decker, which was still there at that time, though in a very poor state of repair. I believe that the top floor had completely disintegrated by then, as well as various bits being missing from it. A lack of time meant that I didn’t get to see it, more’s the pity. I believe that it would be a massive undertaking to try and restore the chassis, let alone the body, though if anyone had the time, money and inclination to try it, he would get my vote any day!

All Foden bus and coach chassis sold to Australia had Gardner 6LW engines, even though Gardner 5LW and Foden’s own 2-stroke engines were available as options. Coincidentally all Foden buses sold to New Zealand (all 5 of them!) were powered by the 2-stroke engine in rear engined chassis - but that is another story!

Thanks to all the previous contributors to this thread and I hope that my comments have added a little to everyone’s knowledge about Foden ‘deckers in Australia.

Foden-nut (I’m not a Foden-nut for nothing! :D )

BTW, if anyone has any Foden bus and coach photographs (not just the ‘deckers) that hasn’t been in contact with me and wouldn’t mind sending me copies, I would be delighted to hear from them. Just PM me!
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:02 pm

Foden-nut the Leyland was thrown in to see if anybody noticed???? You were the only one.
The length of buses changed and the 59/61 seat deckers needed a crew of two, the new length permitted up to 61 passengers with only one man operation.
The body on the four Foden Deckers was nearly the same as fitted to the DRT & T deckers except for changes required by the Foden Chassis and wheel base. So find a Foden chassis and an old governemt bus and away you go. GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Windy » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:16 pm

I'll probably be crucified for saying this, but the Fodens are much more aesthetically pleasing than the TD-x and post war Leyland and AEC halfcab deckers! Not sure if the result was that the engine and radiator was harder to access, though.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby User xxx » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:33 pm

I say types of half cab decker that the DRT&T operated were a great old classic and if a foden chassis would of been tested it too would of been class as a classic now I just remembered I seen a picture of a half cab decker that does not get much mention it was on a dennis chassis picture I saw was when it was taken out service and store at LEICHHARDT DEPOT as there is not much in the way of information and wondering if anybody knows of this bus and maybe have a picture of it route660.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:39 pm

Wasn't actually a Dennis - it was the chassis of Thornycroft Daring dd 1371 (Fl# 171).The Dennis 1391 (191) soldiered on until 1948 with an AEC engine and rear end assembly.

The Thornycroft chassis, is shortened form, is at the Tempe Museum.
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby GM » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:50 pm

John J Hill copied the Foden front end for some of their ex Govt deckers. GM
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby Dave Wilson » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:57 pm

GM -did you ever take any of the old junk laying around Leichhardt Workshops yard?
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Re: Dgt Aec Renown 1010 and Aec Qs

Postby system improver » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:04 pm

GM wrote:Foden-nut the Leyland was thrown in to see if anybody noticed???? You were the only one...


We all noticed, but were just too polite to say anything. In any event, whilst I had seen a Foden and Guy-Arab with this MBA body style in this board, I hadn't seen a Leyland. Would have been one of the first in NSW I suppose.
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