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Nothin but M.C.I.

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Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby mci841 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:56 pm

Nothing more sexy in this world than an M.C.I.
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M.C.I......Silver Eagle........All the way.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby 33 HBS » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:12 pm

Yes indeed a very nice coach, it would be great to find one of these machines to restore and preserve.

A group of us have been looking over the last few years to see if we could find one to do but have not had any success yet.

A very nice coach the crusaider and challenger
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby STA 1440 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:09 pm

Werent they these particular coaches called MC-7's in the US?
I've been known for my strange fetish towards the later MC-9's hehe
Was this coach fully imported, or was it license built here in australia?
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby system improver » Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:18 pm

Two Stories, source in brackets:
1. Fully built in Winnipeg, Canada and shipped to Ansair Melbourne where they were converted to RH drive.(The People Movers - Jack Maddock)
2. Partly built in Canada, shipped in kit form and assembled at Ansair, Melbourne. (Buses of Motor Coach Industries - William A Luke & Brian Grams)

The good news is that Driver Bus Lines (Melb) has one and it has been beautifully restored.

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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby Vitalstatistix » Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:37 am

All that shiney polish is a far cry of what we get today. They don't make coaches like they used to. I guess thats because the whole persona about the 'long haul' coach trip has changed. :roll:
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby fearnes3848 » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:45 pm

system improver wrote:Two Stories, source in brackets:
1. Fully built in Winnipeg, Canada and shipped to Ansair Melbourne where they were converted to RH drive.(The People Movers - Jack Maddock)
2. Partly built in Canada, shipped in kit form and assembled at Ansair, Melbourne. (Buses of Motor Coach Industries - William A Luke & Brian Grams)

The good news is that Driver Bus Lines (Melb) has one and it has been beautifully restored.


Geez they dont build them like that anymore, absolutely bulletproof. What a beautiful looking unit :wink:
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby gramsb » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:47 am

I love the photos of the MC-7s that you have posted. I have an MC-7 sitting in my yard and have been gathering bits and pieces over the years with thoughts of doing a restoration but there does never seems to be enough time. I was fortunate to get a bunch of new baggage doors and motor doors when MCI declared them obsolete so I have most of the parts that I will need. The MC-7 (and the MC-6) are about my favourite buses as I drove them for Greyhound Canada in the mid-seventies while I was in University in Calgary.

Anyway, the right hand drive MC-7s were partially built in Winnipeg, Manitoba and then shipped by rail and ship to Australia for finishing. Somewhere, I have a bunch of photos of them on rail cars in Winnipeg. If anyone is intrerested I will scan them and pass them on. The right drive MC-8s and 9s were completed in Winnipeg and Pembina, North Dakota and then dead headed to Vancouver BC where they were put on the boat. Greyhound Canada drivers based in Winnipeg took them all the way through to Vancouver. I remember the MC-8s going through Calgary and the boys in the body shop rushing to repair some body damage on one of them before it went on to Vancouver. It must have been a bit of a challenge to drive the right hand drive buses some two thousand miles especially going over the Rogers Pass in the Canadian Rockies.

I also have the build list from MCI showing the delivery dates and such if anyone is interested.
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Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby pioneermci » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:00 pm

...
Last edited by pioneermci on Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby STA 1440 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:22 pm

Even all of MCI's newer models feature a heavilly fibre glassed, bonded window design these days, so what hope is there. :?
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby User xxx » Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:30 pm

I thought a M.C.I left hand drive demo coach was brought out here from america back in the late 90s which was a big coach did that one go back to america it would of to get a few in right hand I it in a bus with the taken in ballarat it was in a all over white livery with black just below the luggage bins route660.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby system improver » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:42 pm

On the 15th September 2008, MCI filed for bankruptcy protection (chapter 11), citing more than A$1 billion in debts. They have put together a plan to pay creditors part of what is owed to them (yet to be accepted). Whilst the company says everything will continue as normal, it is unlikely, particularly given the credit situation in the US and elsewhere. MCI relies on big contracts with local government operators who are having to cut back severely on expenditure like state governments.

The buses may be good but the company is on the nose.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby STA 1440 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:43 pm

bugger indeed! Oh well, atleast we'll always have all their classic older coaches to remember them by :wink:
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby TourmasterMaster » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:04 pm

The MCI in question operated under permit, as it and all other MCIs in production are 2.6m wide. Max allowable in oz is 2.5m. Govt wouldn't budge on wider coaches so MCI said get F!@#ed and took their bus home.
Understandably too, why would they rejig the whole factory for a tiny market such as ours
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby User xxx » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:13 pm

It was a damn shame it was a fantastic coach mongrel government having a MCI like demo one a few more like that on our roads would be great sight like the picture from the MCI coaches website route660.
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Nothing but M.C.I.

Postby pioneermci » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:59 pm

Motor Coach Industry may be in bankruptcy Chapter 11 administration but you forget one vital thing: It is NOT the same as bankruptcy legislation in Australia. Companies in the USA RESTRUCTURE, not close necessarily.

Why have Greyhound and other leader operators stayed with MCI and Prevost?

Greyhound in the USA and Canada restructured. The USA operation was in Chapter 11 administration but it is STILL OPERATING.

It is still the leading builder for North America. Van Hool units produced for North America look much more like MC9's. No overhang, 2 piece windscreen, pantograph wipers, maximum bin space and integrated airconditioning units, all American drivelines.


With regards to 102 inch wide units, New Jersey Transit has ordered 96 inch wide units for use in and out of New York via the Port Authority tunnels.
Coaches could be built up to and including the front end for Australia. An obliging body builder can follow the lead taken by Ansair and complete the front end and commission the vehicles.

If all the european makes were so good, why have North American operators refused them?

How many Mercedes, MAN, Volvo, Scania, DAF coaches do you see on North American roads?

Have you ever asked why?

MAN tried and it was never a success in the coach market.

Setra is successful in the North American market after providing a specific model which the operators want. They do not import from europe vehicles with european driveline, all ovehang and small capacity air-conditioning units to North America and tell them that's what you get like it or lump it.

Prevost is owned by Volvo, yet builds according to the same time proven formula. It was not converted into a body shop to build bodies on Volvo B10 or B12 units. Yet Volvo could have done so.

Also, how could the fire have been avoided or minimised if the vehicle was build from stainless steel and aluminium, not fibreglass.
C2000RightSide.jpg
Last edited by pioneermci on Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:28 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby Sir Joh » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:20 pm

Upon searching the internet, there is a company here in Australia called 'Denning Manufacturing' that builds a coach with little overhang and some of the same features that your beloved MCI's seem to have. Check out http://www.denning.com.au/gallery.html and click 'Denning 3 axle'. Availble as a 12.5m (or 40 foot in my language) and 14.5m.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby User xxx » Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:26 pm

And what about the 14.5 coaches that greyhound don`t they have bit of overhang I reckon the irizar are short arses compare these route660.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby TourmasterMaster » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:13 pm

Pioneermci,
you seem to be a bit confused about european and US products. The European (Except Irizar/Scania) are chassis only importers, The MCI that has been spoken about is a fully imported vehicle. The body is subject to many more ADR's and testing for rollover strength and dimensions must also meet adr.
In regard to 96 inch units thats only 2.44m thats 6cm too narrow, the coaches seats would be too close together. :) Realistically, they would not build special orders for Australian design rules, as the massive costs involved in ADR Compliance would be hard to absorb. And the order for 96 units you speak about from one single operator would not occur in australias coach industry. Bottom line MCI DO NOT COMPLY WITH AUSTRALIAN ADR'S WHICH ARE THE HIGHEST STANDARD IN THE WORLD TODAY. Your comments from now on pioneermci are based on your heart and love of the old MCI :roll:
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby VH-NJF » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:16 pm

TourmasterMaster wrote:Pioneermci,
you seem to be a bit confused about european and US products. The European (Except Irizar/Scania) are chassis only importers, The MCI that has been spoken about is a fully imported vehicle. The body is subject to many more ADR's and testing for rollover strength and dimensions must also meet adr.
In regard to 96 inch units thats only 2.44m thats 6cm too narrow, the coaches seats would be too close together. :) Realistically, they would not build special orders for Australian design rules, as the massive costs involved in ADR Compliance would be hard to absorb. And the order for 96 units you speak about from one single operator would not occur in australias coach industry. Bottom line MCI DO NOT COMPLY WITH AUSTRALIAN ADR'S WHICH ARE THE HIGHEST STANDARD IN THE WORLD TODAY. Your comments from now on pioneermci are based on your heart and love of the old MCI :roll:


I agree... it is quite evident that Pioneermci is biased. I too am biased towards M.A.N, but atleast i can admit it, and also admit the fact that M.A.N, and everyone else 'Dont build em like they used to.'

I will add that it is the operators choice, as to what he/she purchases for the company. For example, who's going to listen to a whailing fool running around telling them to buy a certain product just because they think its fantastic? EVERONE IS DIFFERENT & HAS DIFFERENT TASTES AND LIKES.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby pioneermci » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:21 pm

Sorry Sunshine,

You are right, I am biased towards QUALITY. You do not mention the fact that the european originated coaches operating in North America have been completely redesigned for that region's operation. See the pictures above.

Now compare them with the same manufacturer's units sold in europe. Completely different. My point exactly. Not only that but the european manufacturers may have said what we sell in europe, you will get in north america. If so, then why did they completely redesign them with no overhang, maximum bin space, integrated a/c etc. If the europeans tried to do there what they do there, then why would they be popular makes in north america.

In addition, no one answered the query on why scania, man, volvo, daf and mercedes benz do not feature in North America at all.

Neoplan, another european maker has since closed down its North American operations. Its a/c supplier Sutrak has since been taken over by Carrier and featuring the tried and proven 05G compressor with variable unloading. Not the other way round.

One important point you all missed:

MCI has re-engineered its coach construction to comply with Australian Design Rules for rollover 10 YEARS AGO. I read the reports when that occurred. The uncomfortable Australian supplied seats with seat belts would have to be supplied. Not only that, models with emergency exits on each window and NO HAMMERS would make it THE SAFEST COACH ON AUSTRALIAN HIGHWAYS and secure too.
Last edited by pioneermci on Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby member 1423 » Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:29 pm

Thats North America. This is Australia and that is the difference. We have many different coach and bus varieties to cater to the many different needs our country has. A operator climbing up the Toowoomba range on a daily basis will require a different bus, then say, someone driving across the Tanami desert.

http://www.denning.com.au for a real coach too by the way.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby Simes » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:27 pm

pioneermci wrote:
In addition, no one answered the query on why scania, man, volvo, daf and mercedes benz do not feature in North America at all.



Simple, they either own an American manufacturer or won't enter due to possible protectionist American government policy? :twisted: Just because they preach free trade to the rest of the world, doesn't mean they practice it themselves...

As for the European makers who have an American offshoot that makes it's own stuff? Well good for them, the American market is probably more than big enough to support this, how do you know there isn't any cross pollination of ideas between the two makers in any case?
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby Windy » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:33 pm

pioneermci wrote:
In addition, no one answered the query on why scania, man, volvo, daf and mercedes benz do not feature in North America at all.



As mentioned before, protection of inefficient industries is what has led to a lack of European and Japanese trucks and buses and coaches in the USA. Note though that foreign cars don't seem to be subjected to such stringent protection, although the auto industry is similarly protected. You might even be interested to know that Daimler own Detroit Diesel, which may set off some alarm bells in your head. How is it that you forget about Neoplan and Van Hool (which uses DAF running gear), and Alexander Dennis with their Enviro 500s which are slowly being rolled out across a number of transit systems?
Last edited by Windy on Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby pioneermci » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:35 pm

You are INCORRECT:

Setra and Van Hool are built in Europe and imported INTO the USA and Canada and have been for 20 years, albeit with significant modification.

That puts an end to your arguments about protectionist policies.

Have you noted that Americans are buying more cars IMPORTED from Japan and europe? Even with import duties they are quite competitively priced over there.

You haven't answered the question on why MAN, Scania, Volvo, Mercedes-Benz, DAF, Bova are absent from the North American market.

Also can you put light on why Neoplan came and went in the North American market?
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby CM Hino » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:38 pm

pioneermci wrote:MCI has re-engineered its coach construction to comply with Australian Design Rules for rollover 10 YEARS AGO. I read the reports when that occurred.

Well that must mean they are just to dame Expensive.
Also if MCI had to redesign the coaches to comply to Aus standard must mean our rollover standard are better than the U.S

pioneermci wrote:Also, how could the fire have been avoided or minimised if the vehicle was build from stainless steel and aluminium, not fibreglass


What a load of crap. Where did this fire start on the roof?
The internal fitting the floor plus any insulation would have big part in the coach burning as bad as it did.

If the fire had of happened on a bus made with aluminum there is a great chance that the aluminum would have got hot enough to melt and in worse case start to burn. If you think aluminum doesn't burn ask the royal navy about that?
I have seen aluminum on fire By the way.

pioneermci wrote:along with two roof hatches and the front entry door

Roof hatches are emergency exit here.
Front doors here also can be used as an emergency exit as well

pioneermci wrote:Why wasn't Motor Coach Industries ever consulted? Why didn't the industry collectively direct the federal and state governments to them and the USA & Canadian governments?

Why would we need to consult a company who you have point out as being a little fish here Australia. As for asking the US to set the standard for our country why would we. I am dame sure the US doesnt ask us when they need to change there standards
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