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Nothin but M.C.I.

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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby Windy » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:41 pm

Setra is owned by Mercedes is and uses Mercedes running gear. So therefore Merc do have a presence in the market. They also will have a presence through their acquisition of Detroit Diesel.

Van Hool uses DAF mechanicals. So therefore DAF also have a presence in the US market.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby pioneermci » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:53 pm

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Last edited by pioneermci on Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby pioneermci » Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:57 pm

Windy wrote:Setra is owned by Mercedes is and uses Mercedes running gear. So therefore Merc do have a presence in the market. They also will have a presence through their acquisition of Detroit Diesel.

Van Hool uses DAF mechanicals. So therefore DAF also have a presence in the US market.


Sorry to trouble you but you are wrong on both counts:

Setra uses all American running gear. The same for Van Hool. Detroit Diesel and Cummins engines with Allison transmissions.

Early Setras in North America had Spicer constant mesh transmissions as an option.

Therefore no DAF.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby Windy » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:04 am

pioneermci wrote:You know NOTHING about public policy formulation or how government works.

You obviously have never studied public administration.


No I don't. All I've done is a Bachelors of Economics and Social Sciences, where my majors were in Political Economy, Psychology, Industrial Relations, Human Resources and with a thesis on National Competition Policy at the University of Sydney.

And no, I haven't studied public administration, but I suppose I may have dealt with them 5 days a week when my most recent position as a Senior Recruitment Consultant involved dealing with State and Federal Governments and being an Account Manager having to assist in the writing of tenders and Request For Quotes and meeting with the various departments we worked with (DFAT, DIMA, Health, Defence, NSW Area Health Services, some recruitment for DOCS and DHAS).

So no, I have absolutely no idea as to how the world operates, despite dealing with large multinational organisations which range from Iveco, Deloitte Touche & Tohmatsu, KPMG, Ernst & Young, Macquarie Bank, Microsoft, AMP, and other smaller consultancies whereby I keep my finger on the pulse in terms of what's happening around the world.

Oh no, I am an uneducated little 9 year old kid without a care in the world.

You forget the basic principles of economics: "Supply and demand". At the moment, there are enough manufacturers in Australia to fullfil the demand for bus bodies and chassis. MCI left the market many years ago, and haven't returned since. Why I don't know, and I don't think I'd like to know what your conspiracy theories are anyway, unless you are able to reproduce cold hard facts.

pioneermci wrote:Can you shed any light why passenger trains do not have ADR's or equivalent regulations applying to them?


You may actually care to note that passenger carriages are not subjected to the same stresses as motor vehicles, in terms of inertia, or metal fatigue, due to having less mechanical parts. They also sit on tracks, which means that in the unlikely event of a derailment, the key to a carriage would be it's structural strength, rather than crumple zones, seat belts, and the like. I'll happily delve into any documentation and outline in detail why this such is the case, if you so request.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby pioneermci » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:21 am

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Last edited by pioneermci on Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby Windy » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:25 am

Delve into statistics while you're at it and tell us how many fatal crashes have we had in the past 10 years which have involved a coach, or a coach catching fire and burning everyone to death, or a similar railway accident. How many coaches have rolled umpteen times leading to passengers being thrown from the vehicle like rag dolls? We can only surmise and try and work proactively towards the prevention of fatalities. Preventative measures like seatbelts and ADRs which strengthen the structure of a vehicle are examples of what can be done, but we don't live in a nanny state or a communist country where everything is controlled.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby CM Hino » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:52 am

pioneermci wrote:Setra uses all American running gear. The same for Van Hool. Detroit Diesel and Cummins engines with Allison transmissions.

Here is something I found at www.detroitdiesel.com
By 2000, Detroit Diesel was a dynamic and noted company — both within the trucking industry, and the investment community. In October, DaimlerChrysler, the world's leading manufacturer of heavy-duty diesel truck engines, completed a tender offer for all outstanding shares of Detroit Diesel, including the 48.6% ownership interest of Penske Corporation.

Following the acquisition, DaimlerChrysler consolidated various engine and other powertrain component activities (including Detroit Diesel and Mercedes-Benz industrial engines) into the Commercial Vehicle Division under a new business unit named DaimlerChrysler Powersystems. The new company brought together more than 34,000 employees and combined revenues of approximately $7 billion.

Well what do you have say about that?
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby User xxx » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:38 am

I thought I put a second post here it is missing I find it route660.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby fearnes3848 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:48 am

pioneermci wrote:Also, how could the fire have been avoided or minimised if the vehicle was build from stainless steel and aluminium, not fibreglass


What a load of crap. Where did this fire start on the roof?
The internal fitting the floor plus any insulation would have big part in the coach burning as bad as it did.


If the fire had of happened on a bus made with aluminum there is a great chance that the aluminum would have got hot enough to melt and in worse case start to burn. If you think aluminum doesn't burn ask the royal navy about that?
I have seen aluminum on fire By the way.


In any type of fire where there is a posibility of there being any fibreglass material especially in buses or trucks you might as well say that it would stand as much of a chance that a piece of newspaper would in a fire.

Fibreglass is going to burn no matter what due to glass fibre and the chemicals used in fibre glass resin, lets take for example ex Fearnes MO9660 which was a beautiful Custom Coach bodied Leyland Worldmaster with a :evil: underfloor fuel pincher engine which was gutted by fire in 2005.

The fire started on a very hot summers day as it began to climb a small hill towards the end of its school run in the rural area of Harefield which is about 20 mins north of Wagga. As it got about 100m up the hill the driver heard a huge bang from inside the engine bay and one of the very few kids left on the bus ran down and said that there where flames coming through the floor, so the driver very quickly evacuated the hand full of kids and waited for the Wantabadgery bush fire brigade to come.

Within about a couple of minutes the whole fibreglass roof was engulfed with fire and it was completely gone within a minute or two and once all the windows broke and there was no roof the oxygen just swarmed in and the pretty much the whole interior was gone in about 10 mins. The exterior didn't suffer too much damage compared to the interior which was all flammable material besides alot of smoke damage, some of the paint being burnt and alot of warped panels from the heat although around the engine bay the panels below the windows were all rivoted in with aluminium rivots all burnt away causing the majority of the offside to peel away from the body.

This also proves that steel does not ignite, why do you think that steel can be oxy welded or oxy cut? Even though you heat the metal up with a extremely hot blue flame to over 1000 degrees celcius, it can begin to melt but it does not ever burst into flames like aluminium would.

Take tin foil for example what happens if you light it up or put it in the microwave or what happens if you hold a oxy acetylene torch on a Coke can?????? And then take a bit of steel RHS and try and light it up you can even pour petrol on it but there is no way the it will burn.
Last edited by fearnes3848 on Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby VH-NJF » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:40 pm

fearnes3848 wrote:
You can't oxy cut aluminium and you can't MIG weld aluminium using argon gas, why ??? Because it will iginite and it wont be able to bond together anyway when you MIG weld it with argon gas.


Then.... can you please explain to me why we MIG weld (as shown in photo below), using argon gas, the following items on Brisbane Transport buses 625-842 & 1200-1500...: Roof Bows, Under-dash paneling, rear bulkhead bracing, hinged panel bracing, fixed panel mounting blocks, Roll-over bars, air intake transition ducting, n/s mirror tapping plate...and countless other parts
Image

It is also quite possible to oxy cut and weld aluminium.

I can tell you're a 'man of the industry' :wink:
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby fearnes3848 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:32 pm

888 wrote:
fearnes3848 wrote:
You can't oxy cut aluminium and you can't MIG weld aluminium using argon gas, why ??? Because it will iginite and it wont be able to bond together anyway when you MIG weld it with argon gas.


Then.... can you please explain to me why we MIG weld (as shown in photo below), using argon gas, the following items on Brisbane Transport buses 625-842 & 1200-1500...: Roof Bows, Under-dash paneling, rear bulkhead bracing, hinged panel bracing, fixed panel mounting blocks, Roll-over bars, air intake transition ducting, n/s mirror tapping plate...

It is also quite possible to oxy cut and weld aluminium.

I can tell you're a 'man of the industry' :wink:


Oh yeah ok, well thats what we were always told in metal work at school, fair enough my bad :wink:
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MCI is Out of Bankruptcy!!!

Postby pioneermci » Thu May 07, 2009 4:39 pm

It was always a matter of time.

Not hard to guess why MCI is still the preferred choice of most North American operators.

Look at Prevost and Van Hool: Nth American dimensions, 3 axle for coaches 12m and over in length. NO USELESS OVERHANG. Maximum luggage carrying capacity and twin panelled windscreens. Looking more North American than ever.

Not to mention integrated air conditioning systems. None of this roof top nonsense.

So there.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby mrobsessed » Sun May 10, 2009 4:17 am

I agree with you pioneermci. They are vehicles that are well suited to our climate and conditions, unlike many European chassis, even with Australian bodies. Mechanical parts in particular are readily available in even the most inaccessible places because of the amount of parts shared with American trucks. I've never driven any Australian vehicle that rides or drives as well as the American stuff - although Tourmasters do come close! Comparing the coaches of America and Australia in 1966 when the PD4107s came in, how far behind were we? Converted Bedfords?

It's just a shame that the exchange rate hits us like it does, and our weight and width restrictions can make life interesting - oh, and we drive on the other side of the road and the Americans aren't interested in producing a right hand drive model. Anyone who has ever driven an Eagle, an MCI or even a GM PD4106/4107 couldn't seriously think that the rubbish that is coming out of Spain and China is half a shade on an MCI.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby boronia » Sun May 10, 2009 2:15 pm

mrobsessed wrote: Anyone who has ever driven an Eagle, an MCI or even a GM PD4106/4107 couldn't seriously think that the rubbish that is coming out of Spain and China is half a shade on an MCI.

I would even extend that comment to some of the "better" european coaches that followed.

When I started driving coaches I was in B58s with Wilson and Allison boxes. I though that was pretty cool, not having to worry too much about changing gears. Then one day they put me into a 4107; the thought of having to battle a cantankerous crash box and lousy turning circle around Sydney traffic did not appeal one little bit. But within a couple of days I had mastered this "problem" and never wanted to go back to the Volvo. To this day I have not driven another vehicle that gave me as much pleasure to drive.
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby mkav » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:36 pm

system improver wrote:On the 15th September 2008, MCI filed for bankruptcy protection (chapter 11), citing more than A$1 billion in debts. They have put together a plan to pay creditors part of what is owed to them (yet to be accepted). Whilst the company says everything will continue as normal, it is unlikely, particularly given the credit situation in the US and elsewhere. MCI relies on big contracts with local government operators who are having to cut back severely on expenditure like state governments.

The buses may be good but the company is on the nose.


from Bus & Motorcoach News :)

MCI completes restructuring
May 1, 2009


SCHAUMBURG, Ill. - Motor Coach Industries announced that on April 17 the company emerged from its voluntary Chapter 11 reorganization.

The U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the district of Delaware confirmed the Second Amended Joint Plan of Reorganization for MCI and certain of its affiliated companies on Jan. 28.

"The completion of our financial restructuring is a major milestone in the 76-year history of MCI," said Tom Sorrells, president and CEO.

"I am particularly pleased that, given a very challenging economic backdrop and the tight credit markets, we were able to complete the process in just seven months.

"This is a testament to the strong reputation and presence of our company in the industry and the unyielding commitment of Franklin Mutual Advisers LLC, our new majority shareholder, through the final negotiations.

"This achievement also reflects the dedication of all MCI employees who continued their focus on delivering quality coaches and customer service during this period.

Commenting on the MCI announcement, Godfrey LeBron, chairman of the United Motorcoach Association and vice president of Paradise Trailways in Hicksville, N.Y., said: "MCI is an industry stalwart and UMA applauds their accomplishment.

"Today's financial marketplace is a tough environment and their strong financing, coupled with their position in the industry, would indicate a very bright future indeed."
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby dominodc122 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:18 pm

boronia wrote:
mrobsessed wrote: Anyone who has ever driven an Eagle, an MCI or even a GM PD4106/4107 couldn't seriously think that the rubbish that is coming out of Spain and China is half a shade on an MCI.

I would even extend that comment to some of the "better" european coaches that followed.

When I started driving coaches I was in B58s with Wilson and Allison boxes. I though that was pretty cool, not having to worry too much about changing gears. Then one day they put me into a 4107; the thought of having to battle a cantankerous crash box and lousy turning circle around Sydney traffic did not appeal one little bit. But within a couple of days I had mastered this "problem" and never wanted to go back to the Volvo. To this day I have not driven another vehicle that gave me as much pleasure to drive.

nice unit!!!
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Re: Nothin but M.C.I.

Postby dominodc122 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:37 pm

VH-NJF wrote:
fearnes3848 wrote:
You can't oxy cut aluminium and you can't MIG weld aluminium using argon gas, why ??? Because it will iginite and it wont be able to bond together anyway when you MIG weld it with argon gas.


Then.... can you please explain to me why we MIG weld (as shown in photo below), using argon gas, the following items on Brisbane Transport buses 625-842 & 1200-1500...: Roof Bows, Under-dash paneling, rear bulkhead bracing, hinged panel bracing, fixed panel mounting blocks, Roll-over bars, air intake transition ducting, n/s mirror tapping plate...and countless other parts
Image

It is also quite possible to oxy cut and weld aluminium.

I can tell you're a 'man of the industry' :wink:

You can only Oxy/powder cut aluminium - oxy/ acetylene welding can be achieved but only on thin sections with a welding flux - also arc plasma or laser and/or water jet cut this material - aluminium is susceptable to exothermic oxidation ignition especially in the presence of air in the temperature range 2000 deg F (you can weld aluminium using argon gas but it requires more heat or an advanced welding technology (CDT or the like using MIG) as argon gas has a cooling effect - as can be seen by the weld in the photo provided - too cold!) usually it is welded with mixed gases to create a stable weld pool and minimise porosity (Regards Chris - CBIP Welding Inspector)
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