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New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Buscrazy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:23 am

One thing i note with this bus, is that there looks like there is no "Gunzel" seat at the front, and its a luggage rack instead!
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby 2MSJ » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:54 am

PoweredByCNG wrote:
The O-bahn is the only high speed track in the world, I think that the SA goverment needs to spend some money on it. State of the art buses would be an asset to the state and would see the tracks operation for the next 25 years.


I am being controversial here, but I say strip the O-Bahn and build either heavy or light rail. The O-Bahn was controversial when it opened in the 1980s and it remains so today. The current fleet replacement issues demonstrate how stupid the O-Bahn idea was in the first place.


It really annoys me interstaters who just bag the O-Bahn without properly seeing it in day to day operation, and having used it on a regular basis. Over the last 12 months(before moving obviously) I was using the O-Bahn mainly for work commute, and it was a magnificent system, so much quicker than driving and very highly patronised. The ride, on the whole, was comfortable and smooth(there was the odd exception) and there were less disruptions than on any of the rail lines, including the Glenelg Tram line.

I refuse to accept anyone's opinion as credible on the day to day operation or the idea of original implementation other than people who have lived in Adelaide and used it on a regular basis, as most of the people sprouting these opinions generally are way off the mark :D
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Paul Anderson » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:24 am

I agree with H&D.
If you don't live in Adelaide and have not used this serives then you can't really make a well informed statement.
The M.A.N. SL200's here in Adelaide have a ZF Transmission.
As for the 2 speed ZF transmissions the Volvo B59 had these transmissions and they ran 100% perfect. They would have been much better in the SL200's as well.

The Adelaide O-bahn is here to stay so lets get some real buses for this service, ripping it up and replacing it with a light rail or roadway would just not work and would prove to be more cost negitave.

As for Custom Coaches body builders, I am sorry but since PMCSA was sold out the workmanship coming out of this plant has decreased. They just rush the build and hope it all stay's together.
The last good body they build was the PMCSA 160.

The body for the track bus would need to be a bit more solid than a standard bus coming out of the plant, This would help with virbration and the solidness of the body for hi speed service.
From what I have heard from the drivers the more solid the body the better it sits on the track.
The M.A.N. SL202's are not a bad unit for track work, if fitted with a turbo they would be great.

Lets hope M.A.N. put there hand up for a test on the track as well.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby PoweredByCNG » Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:32 am

Paul Anderson wrote:If you don't live in Adelaide and have not used this serives then you can't really make a well informed statement.


FYI, I have been to Adelaide, twice in fact. Second time around, I stayed for two weeks to gain experience with the public transport system (specifically the O-Bahn). I believe that the O-Bahn was a political stunt by the politicians of the 1980s and the money would have been much better spent on a normal dedicated busway that ANY bus can utilise.

The M.A.N. SL200's here in Adelaide have a ZF Transmission.


I'm well aware of that, as the Adelaide SL 200s rank right up there with my favourite buses of all time.

As for the 2 speed ZF transmissions the Volvo B59 had these transmissions and they ran 100% perfect. They would have been much better in the SL200's as well.


Disagree on both counts.

The Adelaide O-bahn is here to stay so lets get some real buses for this service, ripping it up and replacing it with a light rail or roadway would just not work and would prove to be more cost negitave.


Maybe so, but logistically, the O-Bahn has proven to be a logistical and financial nightmare. It may be a novel system and the experience from an enthusiast's point of view is excellent, but let's not forget that the primary purpose of public transport is to move people, not to entertain the minority.

As for Custom Coaches body builders, I am sorry but since PMCSA was sold out the workmanship coming out of this plant has decreased. They just rush the build and hope it all stay's together.


I think you'll find that the so-called "decrease" in quality is due to the structural disadvantage of low-floor buses more than sloppy bodybuilding.

The body for the track bus would need to be a bit more solid than a standard bus coming out of the plant, This would help with virbration and the solidness of the body for hi speed service.


Bear in mind that Scania's suspensions tend to be on the hard side compared to the suspensions on the old Mercs and MANs. Hard suspension + O-Bahn concrete = lots of bounce!

Lets hope M.A.N. put there hand up for a test on the track as well.


You'll probably see similar results with any modern low-floor bus.

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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Windy » Sat Aug 02, 2008 12:05 pm

O-bahns have their place. However, iI think guidewheels add complexity that is unnecessary and can make things rougher.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby witsend » Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:45 pm

Given that it has been formally announced now that 25kv electrified rail system will be bought into existence by 2012. Would it be time to consider an underground rail line to replace the obahn, given that replacement buses are becoming a serious problem now.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby The Inspector » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:14 pm

PoweredByCNG wrote:FYI, I have been to Adelaide, twice in fact. Second time around, I stayed for two weeks to gain experience with the public transport system (specifically the O-Bahn). I believe that the O-Bahn was a political stunt by the politicians of the 1980s and the money would have been much better spent on a normal dedicated busway that ANY bus can utilise.


When will people like you get ovewr the fact that the O-bahn was built and not a light rail or busway and get over it, I mean it may not be your cuppa tea but it has served well since being constructed and if it was still run the same way it originaly was with all bus routes that head to it actualy using it with no transfers then you would find it hard to have a bad thing to say about it. Only those with electodes up their ass wanting light rail would still have it in for the O-bahn.

PoweredByCNG wrote:Disagree on both counts.


I agree that the SL200's would not have performed aswell if they had the same set up as the B59's however for your information, the B59's were a great bus (even if only 2 speed) and yes they did perform very well, considering I grew up with these buses I think I know a little bit more about them than someone who has only rosde them in their end of life yrs and then not that often either.

PoweredByCNG wrote:Maybe so, but logistically, the O-Bahn has proven to be a logistical and financial nightmare. It may be a novel system and the experience from an enthusiast's point of view is excellent, but let's not forget that the primary purpose of public transport is to move people, not to entertain the minority.


Where has it been a logistical and financial nightmare? Its operated for yrs without issue and the only real problem now is to find a replacement fleet for the artics however this could be solved by making bridge clearences higher and havind double deckers instead.

As for its primary objective, well it does that and has the advantage of being far more flexible than light rail could.



witsend wrote:Given that it has been formally announced now that 25kv electrified rail system will be bought into existence by 2012. Would it be time to consider an underground rail line to replace the obahn, given that replacement buses are becoming a serious problem now.


Nope, never gonna happen. The soil in the area is crap (hence why the O-bahn sinks in places) and with the river crossings to consider it would be far moreexpensive than the O-bahn. Oh and who would want to ride underground for that long distance when they currently have pleasent scenery to look at.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby member 1423 » Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:38 pm

Dave I believe the Canberra SL200s had 3sp Renks. Well thats what Sisils No.7 has.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby PoweredByCNG » Sat Aug 02, 2008 10:35 pm

BusPicsQLD wrote:Dave I believe the Canberra SL200s had 3sp Renks. Well thats what Sisils No.7 has.


All of the ones I've ridden were fitted with 2-speed ZFs.

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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Buscrazy » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:00 am

Heard last night from a friend of mine, that Merecedes in Gemany, have "stockpiles of Mercs already built and waiting for the good old SA Gov / Pat Conolon to say "Ok".
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby marc506 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:02 am

Buscrazy wrote:Heard last night from a friend of mine, that Merecedes in Gemany, have "stockpiles of Mercs already built and waiting for the good old SA Gov / Pat Conolon to say "Ok".


Unless they've been tested on the track he'd be a fool to say okay

And buying the prebuilt buses will cost us more, doesn't help local jobs and will take longer to transport (you could ship two or more chassis in the space it would take to ship one complete bus).

But given Mercedes cancelled the order because the government wouldn't go with the Citaro fronts any stockpiles is their own fault and the government should place hardball with them (and while the scanias aren't crash hot, neither has Merc's repuation in recent years on a number of fronts).
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Simes » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:08 pm

Buscrazy wrote:Heard last night from a friend of mine, that Merecedes in Gemany, have "stockpiles of Mercs already built and waiting for the good old SA Gov / Pat Conolon to say "Ok".


Is this in relation to the whole incident surrounding 542 and the supposed shipment of chassis that got turned around because of the argument over body? Then going by 542's body date of 2002 and the fact that merc no longer supply O405NH's, I seriously doubt they would hold onto chassis or bodied buses for 6 years :roll: What they did with the 40 odd diesel O500's that Perth didn't want would be more closer to what may of happened, that is diverted elsewhere or on sold soon after the deal fell through
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Volvo B12BLEA » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:42 pm

Simes wrote:What they did with the 40 odd diesel O500's that Perth didn't want would be more closer to what may of happened, that is diverted elsewhere or on sold soon after the deal fell through

Would they be the 40 diesel O500LE's that came up to Brisbane?
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby ScaniaK124EB » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:55 pm

Can anyone give us an update of how this bus is doing on the track?
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Willie » Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:16 pm

It was being stored at Custom Coaches, Unless I am mistaken it has only occured around three hours of testing on the first day of trials.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby The Inspector » Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:39 pm

marc506 wrote:But given Mercedes cancelled the order because the government wouldn't go with the Citaro fronts any stockpiles is their own fault and the government should place hardball with them (and while the scanias aren't crash hot, neither has Merc's repuation in recent years on a number of fronts).



These stockpiles would have nothing to do with what happened before as those chassis that were meant to come here would have been sold to another operator, Merc wouldnt sit on chassis worth big $$$ especialy when they were a type on their way out of production.

The current stockpile would be chassis (not bodies) on the current models that are ready for sale, to more than likely be bodied by a local builder (in this case CDC/ CC) but again probaly requiring the Merc Citaro front.

If anyonbe stuffed up it was the SA Government and CC by not using the Citaro front in the first place, had they done that then it would have been a fleet of Merc rigids and probaly artics now that are on the track, the delay in getting a suitable low floor bendy is the fault of these to groups and not Merc. Had they done what was requested then those dodgy Scanias wouldnt be on the track.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby marc506 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:05 pm

The Inspector wrote:
marc506 wrote:But given Mercedes cancelled the order because the government wouldn't go with the Citaro fronts any stockpiles is their own fault and the government should place hardball with them (and while the scanias aren't crash hot, neither has Merc's repuation in recent years on a number of fronts).



These stockpiles would have nothing to do with what happened before as those chassis that were meant to come here would have been sold to another operator, Merc wouldnt sit on chassis worth big $$$ especialy when they were a type on their way out of production.

The current stockpile would be chassis (not bodies) on the current models that are ready for sale, to more than likely be bodied by a local builder (in this case CDC/ CC) but again probaly requiring the Merc Citaro front.

If anyonbe stuffed up it was the SA Government and CC by not using the Citaro front in the first place, had they done that then it would have been a fleet of Merc rigids and probaly artics now that are on the track, the delay in getting a suitable low floor bendy is the fault of these to groups and not Merc. Had they done what was requested then those dodgy Scanias wouldnt be on the track.



Nope.

Ever here the expression "the customer is always right"?

A vendor can offer enticements but as soon as they start trying to dictate the terms to the customer no matter what the product for sale, the customer is most likely to tell the vendor to go screw themselves.

Mercedes should go out of it's way to provide customer service and to meet the needs of it's buyers not canceling orders in a fit of pique.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby The Inspector » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:19 pm

marc506 wrote:Ever here the expression "the customer is always right"?

A vendor can offer enticements but as soon as they start trying to dictate the terms to the customer no matter what the product for sale, the customer is most likely to tell the vendor to go screw themselves.

Mercedes should go out of it's way to provide customer service and to meet the needs of it's buyers not canceling orders in a fit of pique.


Yet in this case it was the buyers in the wrong, all Merc did was asked to have their front fitted to the body which was still to be built by CC in Adelaide so no loss of jobe and probaly a cost saving for CC as they wouldnt need to have made their own fronts.

There is nothing wrong with Merc asking for this and if you look at bus fleets in the UK & Europe the Citaro front is a big hit.

All they had to do was fit a citaro front to 542 for the test period and once successful the other chassis would have been sold to Adelaide who by then could fit the CC front to the remainder, whas wrong with making a supplier slightly happy to get what you need.

And in this case it was the vendor who told the customer to go screw themselves thus leaving Adelaide with no option but lousy Scanias.

So in this case the customer was not only wrong but also bloody stupid as it will cost in the long run.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Simes » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:20 pm

Volvo B12BLEA wrote:
Simes wrote:What they did with the 40 odd diesel O500's that Perth didn't want would be more closer to what may of happened, that is diverted elsewhere or on sold soon after the deal fell through

Would they be the 40 diesel O500LE's that came up to Brisbane?

Yeah from memory there were 50, 40 went to BT and the rest sprinkled elsewhere
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby member 1423 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:33 pm

Hornibrook (111) and Transit First were 2 companies I know of that got them...
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby VH-NJF » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:56 pm

BusPicsQLD wrote:Dave I believe the Canberra SL200s had 3sp Renks. Well thats what Sisils No.7 has.



That is correct. Said MAN's were fitted with 3sp Renk.
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby LTB_Enterprises » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:58 pm

Leigh wrote:I saw this bus again yesterday arvo and its interesting that it has double doors at the front, centre and rear... (This is a bit different for an Adelaide bus!)


Great... more room for the pillocks to stand in the doorways...
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby Buscrazy » Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:47 am

Seeing as this bus is already registered and in Adelaide Metro colours, if guidewheels and dome are taken off, Which depot would it end up at and what would the fleet number be? Would it continue from the cC L94UA's and become 1015??
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby EX PTC & PTB » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:59 am

I wonder if it will become 1100 or 1101????
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Re: New Scania Artic O-Bahn Trial

Postby 2MSJ » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:53 pm

EX PTC & PTB wrote:I wonder if it will become 1100 or 1101????


It may not even stay at TT, but if it did, and it came down to being numbered either 1100 or 1101, 1101 would be the logical choice
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