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Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby busways266 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:30 pm

I did have a look around to maybe find an owner etc , but it was behind a locked gate in a kind of light industrial yard - This unit needs to be saved .. The North coast weather / climate is not the place for it...
So many projects - So little time ...
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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby Inspector » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:50 pm

I agree. It would be good if another Daimler could be preserved. Another line of inquiry would be to find out (through the local council) who owns the yard, and asking if they own the vehicle, or they don't, who does? THEN - more importantly - ask what their plans are for the vehicle.
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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby WBC » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:23 pm

This vehicle does not need saving as it is already owned by someone as a preservation project.
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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby Inspector » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:54 am

That's good to know. Do you have any further details?
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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby busways266 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Just hope it gets preserved before the rust gets it . i know from living not far from there 20 years ago that the rainfall & humidity eats everything metal.. & its not under cover .. At the moment it looks real good .
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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby EastBeach 68 » Sun May 23, 2010 3:42 am

Hi - interesting to read in Greg's books and also here about the unpopularity of the Daimler CVG6.

I've had experience of these both in the UK and in Hong Kong, the latter taking new examples of the CVG6LX-34 right up to 1972, well into the Fleetline era. CMB's semi-auto Guy Arab MkVs were, to all intents and purposes very similar later on in life. In HK, these vehicles were outstanding, with quiet tones and very smooth, positive drive, carrying vast loads (often overloaded) and on steep gradients.

The Gardner 6LW/6LX engines tend to be softer in tone than equivalent Leylands, especially, and AECs. A well maintained CVG6 I suggest was the smoothest and softest 'spoken' of any halfcab design. Vastly superior in noise terms to the Leyland, although I have every respect for the longevity of the O.600 motor. I can't speak for your amazing Albions, as I never knew such buses to drive (although I did own an Albion Victor FT39AN for a few years, which was a trusty little motor and never gave me any trouble, and turned in a staggering 32mpg, with 4-cylinder motor and 5-speed box).

The Daimler kick-back problem was dealt with by later 1950s deliveries; in the UK I associate this predominantly with CW types, which I have driven (and also never had a problem). The kick-back is appalling, however, with drivers at my Southend Cororation Transport garage telling me of broken kneecaps (leg trapped under steering wheel), skimmed shins and all sorts of horrors; apparently this was chiefly a combination of wear, and/or the driver not carefully ensuring the quadrant gear selector was in its notch, and then not 'bottoming' the gearchange pedal. Later CVG6s did not kick-back, so it was very unfortunate DGT had examples that had this 'wartime' characteristic.

The Gardner engine is a hot engine to sit over, for sure. I found UK Bristols sweatboxes, and used to frequently open the windscreens to blow some of the heat out. Given Sydney's testing operating territory, and the full-cabs on your Daimlers, adequate heat-shields should have been fitted for sure. I sympathise with the drivers on that, and the awful kick-back, which was atrocious.

But I suspect that if the Daimlers had been double-deckers, they would have been far cooler in the cab. I'd be very interested to see 2669 running when I'm in Sydney, to see (and hear) what it's like. I think it's exceptionally commendable that 'Tempe' has one preserved, given their contentious lives and unpopularity. They were unique in having CD-650 radiators.

I gather they suffered from some overheating? This is strange, as the CVG6LX-30s and CVG6LX-34s I knew in Hong Kong had much smaller, standard radiators (and worked just as hard, with huge loads of 100+ people) and I never once saw one overheat in two years. The Gardners do tend to push out water on a long climb (CMBs Guys had large steel tubes on their bonnet tops to contain such overflow water on long inclines, which would then automatically flow back into the radiator when the bus cooled, or ran less hard). I suspect this may have been the case, so without top-up, they may have run low? Was this a common situation, or, say, if driven exceptionally harshly, or on certain vehicles later in life? I'd be interested to know.

I suspect their small number effectively made them unpopular odd-bods too. The CVG6 chassis is far from an 'odd-bod' in the broader scale of things (comparative to, say, Crossleys) and has proved itself as refined, and ultra reliable. But with unfamiliar, hot running Gardner engines, full-width cabs, poor insulation and the kick-back problem, I can easily see how they'd become a detested minority in Sydney.

You may be interested to know that I carefully prepared an image of what a double-decker Sydney Daimler could have looked like (using carefully photo-shopped imagery courtesy of John Ward's collection) which is to be published in 'AustralianBus' shortly. This shows 2699 as a double-decker, at night.

Does 2669 ever appear at events? I hope to be in Sydney for several months after this October, so would be more than fascinated to see it run.
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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby AC » Sun May 23, 2010 9:19 am

Photographed 2661 during the week. It's rather sad, but still salvageable
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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby Dave Wilson » Sun May 23, 2010 11:58 am

EastBeach 68 wrote:Hi - interesting to read in Greg's books and also here about the unpopularity of the Daimler CVG6.

Does 2669 ever appear at events? I hope to be in Sydney for several months after this October, so would be more than fascinated to see it run.


2669 is basically in good running order. The body, unfortunately, is most unpresentable as it was caught in a severe hailstorm prior to entering preservation.Damage is severe and will constitute a major restoration project to rectify. Despite all the fuss about the DGT Daimlers, having driven 2669 many times, I found it a comparatively easy bus to handle. Steering is reasonable and there is enough punch from the 6LW to zip along. Gear changing I found to be easy as well, but above all, the noise factor from the motor was less than that of 2669's AEC Regent (2878) and Leyland OPS2 (2599) 31 seater equivalents. AEC 2878 is very noisy in comparison but has superb handling abilities. I don't like front engined preselector Leylands particularly and find the driving position of 2599 inexplicably uncomfortable.
Last edited by Dave Wilson on Sat May 29, 2010 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bus Graveyard - ex DGT Daimlers

Postby EastBeach 68 » Mon May 24, 2010 3:07 am

Fascinating to see 2661 has survived thus far - and after so many years since service, looks in amazingly good condition.

The fat rear hub looks to be a typical Kirkstall rear axle/hub as fitted to wartime and early postwar Daimlers.

As an overseas observer, having (regrettably) not known the 31-seaters in service, it looks to me as if the spec for these Daimlers had a lot more in common with the wartime CW-series than the postwar CV-series (eg as evidenced by that horrific gearchange pedal kick-back issue).

It's such a shame that aspects of the Sydney spec (full-width cab, probably non-existent heat insulation, maybe downrated engines and/or gearbox ratio issues, plus the wartime kick-back issue), plus being such a minority class, led them to have such a bad name. I can fully understand and see how that was earnt, so that's no criticism of Sydney drivers at all.

The CVG is a most refined chassis and was renowned for being smooth and quiet (especially with Daimler's own CD6 engine as the Daimler CVD6, although I have met some of these that have quite a bark to them). Certainly inside, from a passenger perspective, their muffled and quiet Gardners would always sound quiet, and their gentle and attractive gearbox tones could be extremely pleasing to the ear. Were yours given to pleasant aural characteristics?

I'm puzzled to read that drivers found them under-powered. The Gardner 6LW should have been more than adequate to shift these along perfectly well - in the UK double-deckers with up to 72 seats managed OK with this engine and quite heavy bodies, which suggests the engines may have been heavily down-rated? Or was there possibly an issue with back axle ratios? I'm still puzzled as to why they'd overheat (significantly) too, as with the wider radiator, that should have been adequate. They do sound to have been pigs - but, maybe (a little like the Albion Venturer), were there people who liked them as much as the many who loathed them?

Be great to see 2661 survive. It would be a total stunner in the UK - few here are aware of them and the CD650 rad is an automatic draw over here, being that they were so rare. I'm delighted to learn another is still around - your Discussion Board is a truly excellent and fascinating resource - I will post some of my Australia pics back to 1990 for you here in due course.

Is 2661 still at Nimbin, and (may I ask) is it in care towards a secure future? I'd love to see it when I'm over in a few months.

Good wishes to whoever has kept it safe all this time, and whoever is taking care of it now. It's a world rarity, for sure.
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